Talk:Islamic State

Requested Move 15 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. We normally keep RM discussions open for at least seven days with a possibility for prolongation via relisting. This discussion has now been open for more than four weeks. The request suggested a move to Islamic State (organisation), a target that for several years has been a stable and correctly categorized {{R from unnecessary disambiguation}} redirect to Islamic State.

The proposal to move has seen no policy-based support. The opposers argue per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC that the article should stay at the base name, ergo the survey is closed noting a clear consensus not to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sam Sailor 17:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

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Islamic State→? — Current name is just the "Islamic State", it’s can confuse readers with article about the concept. I don’t' suggest it to rename the article to ISIL, beacuse "ISIL" is not common name anymore and pretty outdated.

So let's rename the article to Islamic State (organisation). ISIS can be also suitable beacuse "ISIS" is currently common name to the group. Gaplow43286 (talk) 06:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Islamic State is the common name for the organization, being the one used by the media. The organization is also the clear primary topic for the name "Islamic State" with this capitalization. The hatnote at the top of the article is good enough to clear up any confusion. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi QuicoleJR, Naming the article "Islamic State (organization)" would be a more appropriate solution, as it clarifies that the article specifically refers to the militant group commonly known as ISIS, while distinguishing it from the broader and more diverse theoretical concept of an "Islamic State." This title would help avoid confusion, making it clear that the focus is on the organization rather than the general political or religious concept. By adding the term "organization," it also provides a more neutral and descriptive approach, acknowledging that the term "Islamic State" has broader historical and theoretical meanings, which should not be conflated with this particular group.The normal readers are not supposed to distinguish this minute difference.

--DelphiLore — Preceding undated comment added 18:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Please convey your thoughts in your own words, chatbots are not helpful. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME that is what the organization calls itself.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  "that is what the organization calls itself"

  Why we would use "Islamic State". Article about the concept is " Islamic state ", about the group is " Islamic State ". Just S is difference. That's why I start an RM. We can use " Islamic State (organisation) or "ISIS. BangladeshiStranger🇧🇩 (talk) 03:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  I would rather move the article on the concept to Islamic state (concept) if you think something needs to be moved. The organization is what most users are looking for when they type "Islamic State" into the search bar. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  @QuicoleJR Ok.

  I forget this opinion when I propose this in October. BangladeshiStranger🇧🇩 (talk) 10:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - It is the common name. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support – I endorse BangladeshiStranger’s proposal to modify the article title for enhanced clarity and accuracy. Currently, “Islamic State” as a title risks conflating the militant group with the broader concept of an “Islamic state,” a political or theological idea concerning governance within Islamic contexts. This ambiguity can lead to misunderstandings and unintentionally lend an inappropriate connotation to either the organization or the general concept.

  DelphiLore (talk) 08:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  @DelphiLore This RM is not closed but you still moved article about the organisation as "Islamic State (organisation)". You should wait until the problem get solution. BangladeshiStranger🇧🇩 (talk) 10:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"‘You are next’: online posts show Islamic State interest in attacks on US ahead of election"

[1] Doug Weller talk 11:16, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

@Doug Weller Cite reliable sources to confirm it. BangladeshiStranger🇧🇩 (talk) 08:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@Stranger43286 Why didn't you bother to look first? That would be the sensible idea and sholw good faith. The first hit is [2] Doug Weller talk 11:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Very small Minor edit request

Add an collapsible list into groups infobox, it's very long.
(this topic will be deleted after accepting) 178.81.55.110 (talk) 19:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

First sentence

I have removed, from the first sentence of the article, (uncited) text that calls ISIL an "unrecognised quasi-state." It is true that, as of 2024, affiliates of the terror group hold territorial control over shifting areas of Africa (which we mention in the lead section), but the preponderance of sources (or at least the sources currently cited) don't seem to commonly use the "quasi-state" verbiage to describe ISIL presently - certainly not at a frequency sufficient to justify its inclusion in the lead. Neither of the two sources cited on the present situation in Africa ([3], [4]) use the term. Given all that, the "quasi-state" language is more likely to confuse readers than enlighten them, especially as it seems to conflate the situation a decade ago (2012/2013 era) with the situation today. (Note, too, that there are many terror/insurgent groups that occupy territory but are not commonly described as "quasi-states." Neutrality^talk 19:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to include IS-CP and Add a Section on Involvement within the borders of the Russian Federation

The article shows a significant plurality of foreign fighters in Islamic State originating from The Russian Federation yet there is no mention of either IS-CP or the link to Chechan extremists/terrorists nor the direct involvemnet of Al-Qaeada fighters in the Second Chechen War and activities of IS-CP in Russia since inception of Islamic State/Daesh and it's military defeat two years later.

I prepose inclusion of links to the main article for IS-CP in the article summary as well as a summary of IS-CP operations within the Caucuses. I'm interested in any discussion/contributions before amending the article. Debiant (talk) 15:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 14 December 2024

Islamic State → Islamic State (militant group) – "Islamic state" doesn't indicates towards a particular group but whole Muslim community! And it makes confusion. There are lot of countries or state in past who used this name but not fair to target whole community as majority or almost all Muslims don't accept it as an Islamic state or caliphate. It makes confusion like in First Islamic state page. I think it should be moved on the basis of it targets a particular community who aren't accepting it and Wikipedia should not work on the basis of who claims the title.There is no problem using Islamic state name as per WP:COMMONNAMES But make a distinction.

I have changed the proposed title because the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria doesn't exists. And the main reason for this request is to make distinction.Therealbey (talk) 23:23, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. The "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria" is no more as declared by former Caliph Baghdadi, who declared a global Caliphate. That is why now correct to talk of "Islamic State" when referring to the group's central activities and in general; then one can talk of "IS in Syria, in Iraq, IS-WAP, IS-SP, IS-GS etc. etc.

None believe "Islamic State" means "worldwide Muslim Community". 22Chev22 (talk) 14:14, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Comment: I was launched a RM in October to Islamic State (organisation) but only one supported it, they argued that "Islamic State" is common name. So I think this RM won't succusful.

But If we uses "ISIS" in most of area rather then article title, it will succusful. No one call the group as "ISIL" now. Reliable sources also use "ISIS". So ISIS is most popular term to refer the group. The " Islamic State" is second most popular term. RealStranger43286 (talk) 14:19, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose When sources spell the name out, they almost always use "Islamic State" – [5], [6], [7], the list goes on and on. Readers expect to see "Islamic State", not a long and clunky alternative name. Almost nobody even knows what the second part of ISIS stands for. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 15:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

No. Islamic state, First Islamic state and this page makes confusion. And while saying the word "Islamic state" the thing comes on mind is the state of Islam and there should be no one particularly refered as Islamic state cuz lot of states claimed to be Islamic state and caliphate but it something that is/should be based on consensus of Muslims (Shura) like OIC they can come to conclusion that is this an Islamic state, caliphate or not and no one accept them. They are salafi terrorist organization they have not right to claim that they are the Islamic state and how will someone make distinction between (Islamic state and isis ??? It's disrespectful and unfair that someone claimed the Islamic state or caliphate title and no one of that community accepts but based on people refers them giving the name doesn't make sense! If you think "Islamic state of Iraq and Syria" is not suitable then Islamic State (organisation)as suggest by @Stranger43286 or Islamic state (militant group) but the word "Islamic state" refers whole community not just a particular group it's a term. Therealbey (talk) 17:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Nothing written above concerns Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, it simply appears to be your personal opinion based on your own sensitivity (WP:NOTAFORUM may be helpful). Sira Aspera (talk) 22:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree with Sira Aspera, WP:RGW may also be relevant here. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 01:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

It sucks that terrorists have co-opted the name, but it isn't Wikipedia's job to WP:RGW and change article titles based on a Shura council. Jebiguess (talk) 22:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Islamic State should redirect to Islamic state. Theparties (talk) 19:06, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: No reason to lengthen the title. The terrorist organization is exactly what 99% of readers expect to find when they type the title, even more so after the current events in Syria. Sira Aspera (talk) 22:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. An RM with basically the same rationale was discussed a month ago and the closer found a "clear consensus not to move". So why are we discussing it again? I'm often not the biggest fan of WP:DIFFCAPS, but in this case it works perfectly. Islamic State is the organisation, capitalised as such and commonly known thus, while Islamic state refers to the generic concept. Suggest a speedy close since nothing has changed since November. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose that is what the organization calls itself being the one used by the media and is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME and is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

  Then what will you say on Islamic state ? How readers will distinct those pages? Or First Islamic state what does this page means the first state of Islam or first state of isis ? There is no problem using Islamic state name as per WP:COMMONNAMES But make a distinction. Therealbey (talk) 01:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. This is not an Islamic state but a terrorist organisation whose proper name is "Islamic State". The capitalisation difference is sufficient. JIP | Talk 07:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

  No it's not sufficient for a normal reader Therealbey (talk) 14:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. The Islamic State itself is not a militant group, but a global coalition of militant groups under Islamic State's central command. The Iraq and Syria province is the most well-known, but there is no group that's just the Islamic State and not a regional affiliate. I wouldn't be opposed to renaming the article Islamic State (organization) as that makes a better distinction between the org and the concept of an Islamic state.

Per WP:COMMONNAME as Amakuru points out, The Islamic State vs. Islamic state is the perfect example of a specific group commonly known as that versus the concept. Jebiguess (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Think from the pov of a normal reader who wants to know concept but finds this group go on Google and search Islamic state it shows this article. And the isis don't operating now globally and Minor in Iraq and Syria. And it create confusion with First Islamic state too Therealbey (talk) 02:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Per commonname. Shadow4dark (talk) 23:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Very clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)