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My new map of prospective nations to join BRICS+ has just been outdated with Burkina Faso's decision to seek joining it. This has led me to wonder how to more efficiently do this. If not, is there a quicker way to edit the file instead of creating a new one and adding it to the page? Dant3gramsci (talk) 02:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We must come to an agreement as to whether or not the DPRK should be included in the prospective members list. I'd like some explanation as to why the sources mentioned are invalid and are only opinion pieces so that we can come to a consensus. Dant3gramsci (talk) 05:07, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your source consists of an article by a journalist - who may or who may not have gotten their story right - which consists of one South Korean academic arguing the reasons why North Korea might join BRICS and another one arguing the reasons why they won't. It hardly reflects a policy statement by the Foreign Ministry of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, does it? 14.2.199.154 (talk) 04:32, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the 2024 summit, the new members were also sent 5 members on the page you have inserted 4 missing Saudi Arabia which has never really taken a decision model Argentina. The same newspapers investigated report the presence of Saudi Arabia as part of the new 5 admitted! Please correct map and information 109.52.17.113 (talk) 06:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think there should be a new article of its own dedicated specially for the reception, debate over, criticism to BRICS. Discuss. Lan Pee (talk) 05:22, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at WP:SPLIT, this article isn't large enough that this is a concern. For now, anything related to the aspects that you mentioned can be added to the article itself, IMO. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 08:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once this section grows larger, maybe. At its current size I don't believe it should be split yet, however as more information is added it could definitely become its own article. Tylermack999 (talk) 14:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Brazilian PIX is not an alternative to SWIFT. SWIFT is an international transfer protocol, PIX is a national instantaneous payment system. As of today Brazil do not have an alternative to SWIFT. Did I misunderstood the objective of the paragraph? I would suggest removing PIX from the entry and perhaps review other services to see if they are actually a SWIFT alternative or something else. Alvaroludolf (talk) 06:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is not vandalism; there are sources stating that. That English WP tries very hard to ignore those sources instead of reflecting both points of view speaks volumes about where the platform is headed. 14.2.205.131 (talk) 20:43, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those sources have the wrong information since Saudi Arabia itself asserted during the current summit that it hasn't made the decision to join as of yet. CmsrNgubane (talk) 09:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Literally the whole map is light blue, do we really need it to be like this? We already have a section of possible future members with more information. I think we should just keep a map of current members and the partner members... While the "Prospective member states" is just a speculation at this point... Yacine Boussoufa (talk) 12:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They could be, but the color shades in the map are too close. There are also maps which include countries that rejected to join. Such as this one (Argentina should be green):
Most of them are identical to the head of state, albeit slightly different in China's case since the Premier is the head of government but ranks below the head of the CCP. This table could easily be removed and put into the page on members of BRICS instead of this main page, and while it does relate to the adjacent topic of the BRICS Pro Tempore Presidency, it isn't neccessary to list the representative leaders out because it can be assumed they are the highest ranking member within each countries' respective government. Tylermack999 (talk) 15:16, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't make any sense in its paragraph either, eg. The New Development Bank is noted in the body to be in the same space as the International Monetary Fund, not the G7. CMD (talk) 13:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't work, we need something that supports the universal "are considered" not just an example of someone considering them to be so. That also looks suspiciously like our wording, which predates that article's publication... Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The BRICS group is considered the foremost geopolitical rival to the G7 bloc" [3]
"an assembly of countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) considered to be the foremost geopolitical rival to the G7 bloc of leading advanced economies." [4]
Our lead: "The BRICS countries are considered the foremost geopolitical rival to the G7 bloc comprising the leading advanced economies, implementing competing initiatives such as the New Development Bank, the BRICS Contingent Reserve Arrangement, the BRICS pay, the BRICS Joint Statistical Publication[15] and the BRICS basket reserve currency." That South African article: "The BRICS group is considered the foremost geopolitical rival to the G7 bloc of leading advanced economies. The BRICS group has introduced (in some instances weighed) rival initiatives that include the New Development Bank, the Contingent Reserve Arrangement, the BRICS payment system, the BRICS Joint Statistical Publication and the BRICS basket reserve currency." And no I don't need to prove anything... But a supporting source will need to be from before that information was on wikipedia, thats how its always worked (its how we avoid citogenesis). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're picking one article, while I provided three, including a scholarly one that describes it as the "the foremost geopolitical rival to the G7". M.Bitton (talk) 20:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All three were published after that text was on this page. There is no way around finding a source which predates the text, we have plenty of examples of citogenesis in the academic literature. I would also note that all three are so close that if they didn't postdate the text we would be removing it immediately on COPYVIVO grounds. You have not done so, so you agree with me. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no horse in this race. I only responded because I thought I was being helpful (the sources are, like I previously said, easily found. The editors are free to treat them however they wish). M.Bitton (talk) 20:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a horse here either, I only responded because I could not find any sources which actually qualified for sourcing it (sources published after it can't be used to source it). If it was easy one of us would have been able to do it by now, but neither you or I have been able to... Therefore not easy Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Going further, Combined, the BRICS members encompass about 30% of the world's land surface and so on right in the lead. So what? Since when we keep "interesting facts" chapter in the lead? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This claim is not verifiable. The cited reference (CIA World Factbook) categorises Russia in the Central Asia region, not in Europe. Of course, Russia is partially in Europe and partially in Asia. However, no source is given that shows the GDP of the European part of Russia alone, and whether this would be higher than that of Europe's largest economy (according to the CIA list), Germany. As Russia's total GDP is only 11 percent higher than that of Germany, at least 90 per cent of this would have to be generated in the European part to make it Europe's largest economy (measured in PPP). RJFF (talk) 14:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there, Transcontinental countries are deemed to be part of the continent in which they are grouped in at the general assaemby, for example, a country like Egypt is located both in Africa and Asia but is deemed to be African at the UN. CmsrNgubane (talk) 03:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article shouldn't be using GDP PPP, it should be using regular GDP. Germany's economy is the fourth-largest economy in the world and largest economy in Europe. AusLondonder (talk) 03:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no requirement for that as long as you state that it is PPP or nominal GDP, and also most economists consider nominal GDP to be misleading and PPP is closer to real GDP output of a country as it is not influenced by currency exchange rate fluctuations, I suggest you research the topic a little, it can be quite fascinating. IT is also the reason why Russia is able to continue the war in Ukraine despite Ukraine receiving support from the west, the reason for this is that Russia's economy is far larger than what nominal GDP suggests. CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is not true at all. Economists will use nominal GDP, because its a better representation of global purchasing power. In an example like this - who is the biggest economy in europe nominal GDP is the correct metric. if you want to compare local purchasing power GDP PPP would be correct.
The cases of Russia and Egypt are very different. 6 percent of Egypt's area territory in Asia with less than 1 percent of the country's population – this is marginal. Russia's territory on the other hand is mostly in Asia (75 percent) with 20 percent of its population. The UN's placing of Russia in the Eastern European Group does not make the whole Russian economy a "European economy", as this is a merely political categorisation for a certain purpose (the organisation of UN institutions), not relevant to economic geography. But we do not need to discuss our opinions on this, as Wikipedia does not publish original research. Please provide a reliable source verifying that "Russia emerged as Europe's largest economy", otherwise the statement has to go. --RJFF (talk) 04:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are the one who's cherry picking here, the percentage of territory being in a continent is not what counts, it is where international bodies deem countries to be located that matters hence Russia is classed as a Eastern European country. You seem to be driven by a bias from my perspective. CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings, we should not be adding WP:TASS, and we need to address the concerns raised, which is - we should not be using sources not related to the article subject. Sources you added don't talk about it, please don't add these. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If I may add, BRICS is an economic partnership like any other but the reason why it gets so much attention is due to its size, if we were to leave out material information about the individual countries economies and size this article would be incomplete. CmsrNgubane (talk) 11:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your responses are clearly emotional, the Statement of Russia being the largest economy as of the latest financial year is true and cannot be refuted, just live with that fact until the official data for the year ended 2024 is released, I really wanted to avoid being aggressive but it seems this is the only language you'll will understand. CmsrNgubane (talk) 17:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The argument has clearly been addressed, for some reason which I believe is bias you refuse to accept the reality. You can try to claim personal attacks but it doesn't change the facts that I've listed. CmsrNgubane (talk) 17:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The argument has clearly been addressed So the argument was that the sources you supplied the sentence with have no mention of BRICS, and therefore are not relevant, and your response was ... what ? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 17:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The soure is about Russia's economy, I don't know if you're aware that Russia is a part of BRICS, does your bias really blind you this much? CmsrNgubane (talk) 17:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's about BRICS which is an economic grouping and information about the member states economies is relevant, I really hope that someone can see my point of view because I'm no longer going to fight this since I have been blocked from making edits. I can only ask the editors to have a discussion about from a neutral standpoint going forward and for my previous contributions to not be reversed due to the block.
[10] Recently, the BRICS economic bloc, an economic cooperation league that includes Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, decided to expand its membership and Invite non-member countries to attend the 16th BRICS Summit, on 22-24 October 2024 in Kazan, Russian Federation.
With the alm to expand Thalland's opportunity to play a part in International policy-making and strengthen its role as a leader among developing countries, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs proposed becoming a member of BRICS, and the Cabinet has just approved Thalland's draft letter of intent.
The draft letter emphasizes Thailand's efforts that are in line with the principles of BRICS, such as placing importance on multilateralism and increasing the representation of developing countries in the international system.
Joining BRICS would benefit Thailand in many respects, for example, helghtening Thailand's role on the International stage and boosting its prospects of being one of the International economic policy makers. Amane Ojakasa (talk) 05:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @Manyareasexpert , I read the article few time ago it was written at the bottom of it as a comparison to SWIFT. Why don't you go in a public library or so and read the bottom yourself ? Despite that it is obvious that SWIFT which is doing transactions based on XML messages between SWIFT terminals of private banks, is not that efficient like an automatic settlement system of central banks based on digital currencies, please feel free to delete this ! For me this settles this debate, I don't care about this part of my edit. Dark Flow (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I read the source given, and it says - This system, which Russia calls “BRICS Bridge”, is intended to be built within a yearand would let countries conduct cross-border settlement using digital platforms run by their central banks - in future tense.While your addition - BRICS Bridge,(which is told to be a merger between BRICS PAY and MBridge,) makes it possible for central banks to ... - is in present tense.Can you please fix it according to sources. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:14, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well Manyareasexpert I added citations and references 157 to 163 if you would have read them you would know that BRICS Bridge is named by MBridge and originating from it that is not the future, but the past. I admit that some functionality might has to be added but I made any suggestions and guessing of me explicit.
What article or citation do you refer to ?
Your claim that you read the article of the economist is false because you are misquoting it !
I am willing to escalate this to the highest levels here, and also engage in a serious edit war unless you at least stop pretending you read an article you do not even name ! Dark Flow (talk) 12:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FMMTAG Do not remove that format, it belongs exactly where it is, this guy who calls himself an expert is well known for being biased against particularly anything that involves Russia. Usanamepolicy (talk) 06:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am really sorry if I made a mistake or something is wrong with my summary of the citations, and I am willing to correct any mistake I made at any time, but I am not yet aware of any false summary of mine now after my last edit. @Manyareasexpert seems unwilling to verify my citations, and make at least the effort to read as much as I had read about this !
Post Script:I know I am not an example here, but that is just mean !
Dears,
I am sorry I made a mistake by confusing my citations, I just read too much in the references of those citations, and those clearance and settlement systems
[13]Amane Ojakasa Summary
The Bank of Thailand (BOT), announced that the BOT together with the Hong Kong Monetary Authority (HKMA), the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates (CBUAE), the Digital Currency Institute of the People’s Bank of China (PBCDCI)
The mBridge platform demonstrated the enhanced efficiency of cross-border transactions using multi-currency CBDC compared to the current system by eliminating the correspondent banking network, resulting in (1) a substantial decrease in cross-border transfer times from 3-5 days to several seconds, (2) enabling direct peer-to-peer linkages between participating banks which can potentially lower the cost of cross-border transactions. Furthermore, the platform can also (3) reduce settlement risk and (4) support the use of local currencies in international payments (talk) 10:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying that "To some in the West[vague]" could be just changed to "some commentators" and more sentences and references added accordingly. Just skimming through the references shows that this could get more space in the article itself. "Reception" could be a place to put it. I will read the above references listed. EldenMacdonald (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
