Talk:Somali Civil War (2009–present)

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Archive 1

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What happened to the good map?

Why was the map showing actual Somali control removed? It actually showed Las Anod under Somali control, which it is. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 14:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now the map shows explosive expansion of Al-Shabaab control. I wonder if it is the actual development on the ground or it simply means that the previous maps severely understated jihadists' area control. Gorgedweller (talk) 08:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People keep changing the map to an unsourcred one where Al-Shabaab controls all of the south.

There are egregious claims that Al-Shabaab is still in places like Diinsoor which they were expelled by Amisom 9 years ago and current disputes are handled by the South-West State of Somalia, so the area connecting Diinsoor and Baidoa should be marked red.

The road between between Baidoa and Mogadishu, notabally including towns like Buur Hakaba, should be marked as red, albeit with Al-Shabaab presence in rural areas

Along the Somali-Kenyan border, the area arounf Geriley should be marked as under government allied control, and since the entire border region is under vague control it should be striped.

Beyond that, the Northern areas of Somalia. Namely Khatumo state should only be marked as controlling Talex, Laascaanood, and Buudhoodle. With the Northern and Western parts of the claimed territory under Puntland and Somaliland control respectivily. Emx0264 (talk) 18:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Map conflicts

A discussion on the the several maps added in the previous days and their sources was started on Wikimedia Commons Wowzers122 (talk) 21:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

@Ecrusized, under the request of @Cullen328, I want to have a discussion with you about these maps. Zabezt (talk) 04:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, Zabezt, now what you need to do is explain in detail the specific objections you have to the 2016 map, citing reliable sources. Are you saying that the map was highly inaccurate in 2016, or are you saying that the map no longer reflects the realities in 2024, six years later? Those are different problems with different solutions. Since you object so strongly to the map, you need to explain exactly what your problem with the map is. That's your obligation. Cullen328 (talk) 05:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should probably tell you that isn't the exact argument.. lol, when I said I'll mention your suggestion, I meant that I would try to make it so that even if the file gets updated, you won't get confused with the maps date.

The actual argument is that the map Ecrusized is pushing is referenced from Twitter and an orthopedic projection with no source. Meanwhile the previous one was sourced from an actual website, but the source was 3 years old. So what i have been trying to do is discuss with Ecrusized if he can stop using his map and replace it with a. The previous map with the 3 year old source, or b. a new map referenced from a recent source. Zabezt (talk) 05:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*orthographic Zabezt (talk) 05:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zabezt, how can anyone know which maps you are discussing if you do not provide the file names? Which map with a 3 year old source? What is the source and how reliable is it? Cullen328 (talk) 06:23, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.polgeonow.com/2021/12/who-controls-somalia-crisis-timeline.html]https://www.polgeonow.com/2021/12/who-controls-somalia-crisis-timeline.html This map is 3 years old. Zabezt (talk) 09:55, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zabezt, that website has a copyright notice. We can only use a freely licensed or public domain image. Cullen328 (talk) 16:26, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then I guess option b should be used instead, I have seen Ecrusized mention this map: File:Somali Al-Shabaab Offensive (2022-23).svg (sources in the talk page) which seems way more reliable then the Twitter source Ecrusized is currently using, why not ditch Twitter and fully source this map instead? Zabezt (talk) 23:18, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the effort put into creating the map on the Wikipedia article, but it's important to clarify that this map lacks validity as it conflates the mere presence of Al-Shabaab with actual control of territory. From my research, I've already identified numerous inaccuracies in the map's depiction of areas under Al-Shabaab's control. Presence does not equate to control, and such conflation can lead to significant misunderstandings about the situation on the ground. It's crucial that any representation of territorial control be based on precise and verified information. Replayerr (talk) 15:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As an outsider, one obvious problem with the map is the stated government control over Jamame which is not corroborated by any reliable source as it seems that al Shabaab still reigns over the city after many years of theie presence Gorgedweller (talk) 21:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can change that if it's necessary. Zabezt (talk) 21:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing consensus here for any particular map. I'm also not seeing discussion as recent as the edit warring. Use dispute resolution methods as needed, but do not edit war. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion regarding this previously took place on commons. Basically Zabezt is adding a map that is not properly citing a source. It is a mix of different articles none of which put a clear picture of the extent of Al-Shabaab control. I am trying to add a significantly different map that directly cites an images regarding the Al-Shabaab control. What concerns me the most is the previous efforts by the user, and their clearly admitted personal interest in the issue (POV), diff here. Ecrusized (talk) 09:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ecrusized, the map is sourced. And it's sourced better than yours. Your map is sourced from a post on Twitter that isnt specific enough, while mine is sourced from a range of sources, (one of them on Somalia's main Wikipedia Article) If you believe the way I handled the discussion was wrong, I'm sorry. We can have an actual one this time. Zabezt (talk) 11:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jubaland and Puntland

From reading Constitutional crisis in Somalia, I am under the impression that Puntland has explicitly declared independence and that Jubaland implicitly has as both have severed ties with the Somali federal government. If this is the case, then the belligerents in the infobox, the map, and the timeline need to be updated.

On the topic of the belligerents, I also think that Somaliland should be listed as a belligerent. GigaDerp (talk) 16:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Considering a battle was just fought between the federal government's Somali National Army and Jubaland's Jubaland Dervish Force, it warrants listing them as separate belligerents. (Also, I was recently renamed from GigaDerp) Sir Ross ★▀▀ (talk) 16:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]