Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/John S. McCain Sr.

Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk)

The World War II admiral of Guadalcanal fame. "Slew" McCain and his son "Junior" McCain were the first father and son to become four-star admirals in the US Navy, although Slew's promotion was posthumous. (In fact, the only ever posthumous promotion to that rank.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D

This ACR seems malformed - the usual headings aren't in place.

This is a problem with our Template:WikiProject Military history. See Template talk:WikiProject Military history#A class preload boilerplate for deatils. MSGJ (talk · contribs) is working on it. In the meantime, I have added them manually. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to offer the following comments focused on the World War II section, with the proviso that I'm going to be travelling without Wikipedia access for a month starting next week.

I only just got back from Poland and Paris. Have a great time! Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The material in the 'Mariana and Philippine campaigns' section explaining the system where the command teams alternated is a bit unclear - there's too much detail.
Y Elaborated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This section is probably too long, which doesn't help readability.
Y Broken up. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The engagement described in the final sentences of the para starting with "Task Group 38.1 sortied from Eniwetok on 29 August 1944" actually refers to the Formosa Air Battle, not raids on the Philippines.
Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest explaining the difference between a task group and a task force in the Third/Fifth Fleet
Y Added explanation. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It would be good to explain the nature of the relationship between Hasley and McCain. From memory, historians tend to note that they made a good team but had roughly the same blind spots.
Looking for something on this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More broadly, the article doesn't really convey the importance of the role McCain held as the commander of the most important part of the most powerful naval force in the world in 1944-45 (yet almost always with a very strong minded commanding officer in direct control of this force).
Y Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The para starting wit "After replacing the damaged ships" is a bit unclear, and doesn't really capture the fact that the Third Fleet was in the wrong place at the wrong time due to Halsey's misjudgements.
Y Elaborated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest noting the South China Sea raid
Y Noted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The 'Okinawa campaign' campaign section seems overly brief and is a bit misnamed. It should also cover the series of attacks TF38 made against Japan in the last weeks of the war. Notably, McCain strongly opposed the Attacks on Kure and the Inland Sea (July 1945) and was probably right given the heavy casualties incurred attacking ships that the Japanese could no longer use due to fuel shortages.
Y Added more about this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did the British knight McCain in recognition of his collaboration with the British Pacific Fleet?
I believe so, but have not found a reference. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D (talk) 05:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D, any further comments to come from your end? If not, could we have your vote, now that you're back from your break? Matarisvan (talk) 16:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

Hi Hawkeye7, my comments:

In the infobox, when we already have we listed John S. McCain Jr. in the Children label, why have we listed Jr. again as Sr.'s son in the Relatives label?
Y I don't know; another editor added it. Changed to "3" per Template:Infobox person. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"that caused destruction of": might "that caused the destruction of" be better?
Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"report to the armored cruiser USS Pennsylvania on the West Coast": do we know where exactly on the West Coast?
I have checked three different sources and all they say is "on the Pacific coast". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"escorting shipping": "ships" instead of "shipping"?
"shipping" is correct. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"McCain left the San Diego on 26 May 1918": Do we know why?
Y For a new assignment. Changed wording to make this clear. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link to U-boat on first mention in the Early career and World War I section?
Y Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"consisted of VF-4...": perhaps we could rephrase this to clarify that these were squadrons? I had to click on the VB-4 link to confirm they were.
Y Clarified. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"could be released from 200 to 300 feet": What was the earlier range of the Mark 13s?
Y Clarified that this refers to altitude, not range. It had a maximum range of 6,300^x. ("Mk XIII Aerial Torpedo". National Museum of the United States Air Force. Retrieved 16 October 2024.) Is this worth adding? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce and link Knox and Halsey on first mention instead of second?
Y Already linked on first mention. Unlinked on second. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"completion of a new airfield on Espiritu Santo": Are any dates available for this completion? Also, wouldn't "construction" be better than "completion", since this was a new airfield and not a brownfield one?
Y The wording emphasises that McCain pressed to get it ready in time. The construction of the airfield without engineer units was a saga in its own right. Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"revictualing": Gloss as "loading supplies", perhaps in brackets, for those not familiar with military terminology?
Y Linked to the wiktionary. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding my support, all the issues I had raised have been addressed. Matarisvan (talk) 12:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

All images have appropriate licenses.
Suggest adding alt text. I could do it if you're ok with that. Matarisvan (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. Go right ahead. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alts added for all images, the image review is a pass now. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 10:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Location of publication needed for Drury & Calvin 2006.
Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest running the IABot on the page once the huge current backlog is resolved.
Will do spot checks tomorrow.

That was all from me. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7, I will be doing 12 spot checks, ~10% of the total refs. Here go the spot checks:

Ref #19: all 19 pages of the source being cited to support McCain's work at the Bureau of Navigation seems excessive. I think 1-3 pages would be enough, no?
Ref #20: ok.
Refs #23 and #25: I think citing all the pages of the sources is not necessary. We could just cite the sources without adding page numbers for these two refs, and the first one in this list.
Ref #45: ok.
Refs #62 and #63: ok.
Ref #106: ok.
Refs #107 and #109: dead links, you may have to remove these.
Ref #110: ok.
Ref #115: ok.

Matarisvan (talk) 14:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have substituted another newspaper for fn 107.
fn 109 is a book and is not dead. Do we have the right reference number?
19, 23 and 25 are provided so the reader can look up the original works by McCain. The reader looking for a hard copy will need the page numbers. The text is supported by the secondary reference.

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 17:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7, I meant ref 108, the Arlington National Cambridge website. The URL doesn't load on both my laptop and phone, and the archive URL also does not work. Matarisvan (talk) 17:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7, the link might not be working outside of the US. Anyway, everything else is good, so the source review is a pass. Matarisvan (talk) 12:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am outside the US. Strange. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]