User talk:Michael D. Turnbull

Question from Tecla Pharise on Hinge (app) (10:42, 19 June 2024)

Hello How do I edit? --Tecla Pharise (talk) 10:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Tecla Pharise and welcome to Wikipedia. You have just made your first edit here on my Talk Page and editing the Hinge article will be done in a similar way. We have two lots of editing software, so-called "source" and "visual". General guidance on editing is given at this linked page and more specific details about the "visual" editor which newcomers usually prefer are at this page.In a moment, I'll add a set of other links to your own Talk Page, so you'll have them handy as you find your way around. It is worth saying that whenever you add content to an article, you should cite the source from which you have paraphrased the information. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mustafa fryad (21:33, 23 June 2024)

How to crate web --Mustafa fryad (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mustafa fryad (21:37, 23 June 2024)

How to do a website --Mustafa fryad (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mustafa fryad I'm not sure from your questions what it is you wish to do. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia where people like you and me can contribute to its articles in English or in many other languages. It is not a type of social media and contributors are expected to restrict themselves to providing information relevant to building the content. That includes, if you wish, describing on your own userpage what your interests are and how you intend to contribute (see this page for more details). In a moment, I'll add some links to your Talk Page that should help you understand how things work here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Charleen Kinser

On 30 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Charleen Kinser, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that a mail-order catalogue offered a "Rocking Ram" toy, designed by Charleen Kinser, for US$1,600 in 1985? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Charleen Kinser. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Charleen Kinser), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Good job! My new project is Draft:Earl Bailly, which I found on Commons helpdesk. I was a little surprised when the proposer/creator said "The Lunenburg Art Gallery Society are the stewards of the Earl Bailly collection and legacy and have been offered funding for an educational space, but the donors expect a wikipedia page to exist before funding can be granted.", but thought "Screw that, I'll do it anyway." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

You seem to have good sources for that draft: I added a couple more on its Talk Page. It would be great if you could find a source for the Wiki-blackmail and name-and-shame the donors in the article! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:22, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Please misunderstand me correctly! I put a cc-template at Draft talk:Earl Bailly, but there was no WP-blackmail [1], just newbie-ness. And unusual that a technically PAID new arrival suggests a subject that should OBVIOUSLY (imo) be on WP. I feel no particular need to name and shame potential donors to an art gallery in Nova Scotia. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

... but the donors expect... sounds pretty close to me ;-) Let me know if you want me to nominate again at DYK when you are finished, assuming you don't fancy the QPQ. Meanwhile I'm deep into sorting this mess. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

TBH, I'm a little disappointed neither Maggiehohle or Artstoronto could be arsed to make an after-publishing response. Oh well. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Yup, there are a couple of essays about that, e.g. WP:DNER. Mystifies me, too. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Changing topic, I found another recurring "error" to pick at: If you autofill a source like Vogue, it will often fill the company name Condé Nast as author name, which looks quite plausible, but it's wrong, and the articles often has actual author names. See [2] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I've never used autofill like that: my main go-to is the WP:Citation expander working from doi or isbn, which is usually excellent. I'm not sure who else might be interested in Wikignoming the Vogue one. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:02, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I might get onto it. In other news, a dog I started a WP-article about met a king:[3]. Second time I know that he (the dog) has been mentioned in The Times. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:05, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems I whined a little too early. Apparently some people don't look at WP-talkpages for weeks at a time. Very odd and possibly illegal. This is the norm in the global population, surely. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:51, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

As DJT would say: ".... so sad". Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

As Judith Newman said, "Wikipedia may be a haven for cranks and pedants, but it is also amazing." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. I chanced across July 2024 global cyber outages this morning and it gives a much better account than my local news, with a global overview. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

And on the other foot, [4]. Like you said, it keeps us off thee streets. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I saw the discussion about that image, and considered it a clear "delete" based on policy. However, I didn't bother to comment as I am pretty sure that will be the outcome. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I was skimming it and was prepared to say delete, but at that point there was an article about the photo which had been kept. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

And thanks for pointing me to that scary story, I haven't checked news in hours. Apparently my laptop doesn't have crowdstrike software, I checked my folders per the WP-article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't look at the DYK-section very often (unless I'm in it), but today I saw "that the Puck Building has two gilded Pucks?" and to my surprise I realized that I actually did know that! From editing Puck, I think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Nimo wrytes (14:07, 9 July 2024)

Hello Michael,

i wanted to know how i will start with the writing of articles, would i have to write it on A word doc and upload it here or there is an option for me to do all my work here?

thank you for reading --Nimo wrytes (talk) 14:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Nimo wrytes and welcome to Wikipedia! There are two pieces of software that allow editing here. They are called the "source" editor and the "visual" editor. Both are explained in a tutorial you can find at the link Help:Introduction. Neither works quite like Microsoft Word but the visual editor is nearest to that and is usually what beginners choose. Long-standing contributors like me often to migrate to the source editor because it provides more control. Wikipedia editing in source has a "Preview" feature where you can see what the output will look like before you save it. My advice would be to start slowly by making small edits to existing articles (see WP:TASKS or your homepage tab for suggestions). In a moment I'll add a set of links to your Talk Page which you should read if you are serious about writing for the encyclopaedia. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

hello Mr. Michael

thank you for your advice and the tutorial links. and i apologies for the late reply. thank you again Nimo wrytes (talk) 13:37, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Nimo wrytes No apology necessary. As you will learn there is no deadline here. We are mostly volunteers, doing stuff as and when we can. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from Rfhu3u3 on Target Canada (21:34, 17 July 2024)

I can't post --Rfhu3u3 (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Rfhu3u3 You are currently indefinitely blocked. The only way to proceed now if you wish to continue contributing to en:Wikipedia is to use the process described at WP:APPEAL. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from RageAgainstDarkness (15:39, 26 July 2024)

Hello👋 how do I add a footnote that an acronym is unclear? --RageAgainstDarkness (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

@RageAgainstDarkness I assume this relates to your recent comment on Talk:International Atomic Energy Agency. You are doing the right thing: there are hundreds of editors who have that article and its Talk Page on their WP:WATCHLIST. Give it a couple of days and you should get replies. We do have templates that can be added to articles to indicate missing information (e.g. {{cn}} for "citation needed"). My own way to deal with this sort of thing is to put the acronym into the Wikipedia search bar which takes me to INES, a WP:DISAMBIGUATION page from which I infer the correct meaning in this context is International Nuclear Event Scale. I would then WP:WIKILINK the acronym where it occurs in the IEAE article. That's much better than tagging the acronym as being unclear and leaving it to others to clean up. Wikilinks are perfect for this. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from Verified.heartbreakerz (00:28, 12 August 2024)

I'm looking to create a Wikipedia article for 'The Heartbreakerz,' a vocal group I'm part of as the songwriter. I want to make sure I structure the article properly and use reliable sources. Could you guide me on how to present the group's background and our work to meet Wikipedia's standards please? --Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 00:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@Verified.heartbreakerz I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I would judge based on your brief draft that there is essentially zero chance of an article about your group meeting Wikipedia's policy of only describing notable musical groups. We even have a humorous take on the situation you are in which you should read. Articles here are based on finding and neutrally summarizing sources meeting these criteria, which simply don't exist currently. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Apologies i did remove it all, i will restore it and you can tell me what u think of it i thought I put too much information. Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 12:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Verified.heartbreakerz Please don't restore the draft on your userpage. That's not the correct place for drafts and if you put it there an admin is likely to have it speedily deleted. Instead, you can follow the WP:AfC process (click that link for details). My strong advice is that should first work on existing articles on Wikipedia, so you learn a bit about our standards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes but i did it yesterday i didnt need to restore it, i saved it yesterday on a word document i just written it out exactly from there on my laptop within Wikipedia standards. Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Review help for potential article

Hey Michael! I'm not sure if you can see my sandbox, but I've been trying my hand at drafting an article.

I have been trying to comply with the wikipedia guidelines for drafting, and was wondering if you or anyone else could take a quick look and provide feedback?

Thank you! ScienceOcean (talk) 21:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean We have the WP:AfC process (see that link) which is designed to help new editors by providing feedback on draft articles. I'm not a reviewer there but can comment on your sandbox, which anyone can look at if they wish. Like many new authors, you have written the draft backwards: that is, you've written what you know and then tried to find sources to back up what you say. Read the link and you'll see why it is much easier to write the other way round. You have also failed the neutrality policy by saying things like [Dr. Chen has] a passion for community well-being. I don't understand why the draft has so much about Chen and relatively little about the May 9th day(s) since its inception. I would have expected more press coverage from Taiwan either commenting that people had taken part or explaining why they had not. One of the sources you have not yet used is a blog, which is no use for Wikipedia. You need about three decent sources meeting these criteria: reliable, independent and with significant coverage. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I see! Thank you so much for your comments and feedback! This was extremely helpful. ScienceOcean (talk) 18:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Quick follow up question...there is actually a lot more press coverage regarding Taiwan No-Alcohol day, but it's Taiwanese press and the articles are in Mandarin. Would these still be useful to use as citations, or would I have to translate them? ScienceOcean (talk) 18:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean No you don't have to translate them, other than for yourself to confirm what they say, of course! See WP:NONENG for details. Best practice is to include translations for the titles and any quotes. See {{cite news}} for example, which has parameters that allow for translations, using |trans-quote= etc. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:09, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from TheCloudGuy44 (18:30, 13 August 2024)

Hello there,

I drafted a finalised Wikipedia page on my father, Brigadier General Al Faroque Siddiquee. I don't know how to upload it; could you please help me with that? --TheCloudGuy44 (talk) 18:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@TheCloudGuy44 I can see the draft at Draft:Al Faroque Siddiquee and you have followed the correct process by using articles for creation. However, this draft has been "declined" by one of the reviewers who specialize in looking at drafts. I can see why they did that. The main reason is that you have not adhered to our policy explained here. All articles on living people must have full inline citations so that every single fact is backed up by a source, so that readers can verify the content is correct. To take one trivial example, how are readers to confirm his DOB? You may know this to be true but Wikipedia doesn't base articles on what its authors know, it bases everything on reliable published sources. In a biography, if you can't find a published source, it can't be included. We have an essay about this: we call it the problem of writing drafts WP:BACKWARDS.

All this will be bad news for you but I suspect that, with considerable further work, you can create an acceptable draft. Your father is likely to be wikinotable owing to his rank and service, which I assume will have meant that he will have been written about at length in reliable sources that are independent of him such as mainstream newspapers. If that isn't the case, then forget about developing the draft. Note that anything written by colleges etc. he has been associated with fails the independence test and can only be used for limited information in the way described here. That can include backing up information such as DOB. Get back to me here in this thread if you have further questions. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from Samuel Malasa Banda (17:51, 15 August 2024)

Hello, I am trying to publish an entry on Wikipedia. Can you help me review it? Thank you --Samuel Malasa Banda (talk) 17:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Samuel Malasa Banda I assume this is about User:Samuel Malasa Banda/sandbox. This can never become an article in the encyclopaedia because it has no cited sources. Wikipedia is not a social media site. It has strict policies about biographies of living people and you need to read that link to see why your draft is unacceptable. If you wish to continue writing about Kachale, then see the advice at this page. However, I would strongly advise you to forget about creating a new article until you have made contributions to existing articles and have learned about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from ElielKwesi (15:51, 20 August 2024)

I also prefer technology, engineering and science related topics cus that's my niche so how do I go about them here --ElielKwesi (talk) 15:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@ElielKwesi Welcome to Wikipedia! There are many ways to contribute and for science topics we have a number of Projects that specialise in working collaboratively. For example, I'm a retired organic chemist, so I joined the WP:CHEM group: see that link for details. All our projects are listed at WP:PROJDIR, so you should find something to interest you. Not all Projects are very active, however. My strong advice is to start by contributing to existing articles before you try to write one of your own. That's much more difficult than it may appear before you get to know your way around. In a moment, I'll add some useful links to your own Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Is there any tech community available id like to start there 102.176.94.154 (talk) 17:48, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@ElielKwesi Don't forget to log in before editing! I've already pointed you to the various communities. Technology is at WP:WikiProject Council/Directory/Science#Technology. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:01, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Porphyrinogen

These tetrahydroporphyrins are precursors to porphyrins. Oxidative dehydrogenation, I am pretty sure. Not only synthetically but in PPIX biosynthesis. But maybe my info is wrong?

PS sorry about trying to get your advice on borane business, I was looking for some outside advice from organic perspective. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct in general. However, in the case of meso-octamethyporphyrinogen all the methylene groups which link the pyrrole rings are fully substituted, hence there is no H atom which can be removed to allow the oxidation. Of course, these ketone-derived types are entirely synthetic: all natural porphyrinogens have CH₂ linkages between the pyrroles. No problem about pinging me on the boranes; I'm happy to add my 2p-worth on any chemistry topic but in that case I really know close to nothing! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Yes, Me8 derivative is a rock, apparently. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:27, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Substructure search

On 29 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Substructure search, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that you can search Wikipedia or a database of more than 37 billion compounds by substructure? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Substructure search. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Substructure search), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from McDee Pit on Kemin Industries (19:45, 29 August 2024)

Hello, how do I edit someone's article without removing efficient information? --McDee Pit (talk) 19:45, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@McDee Pit Welcome to Wikipedia. The Kemin Industries article, as it is today, is truly terrible. Its only sources are the company's own writings, which tends to be promotional. Proper encyclopaedia articles are meant to be base on sources like these. If you can find such sources, then please do paraphrase them in your own words and add the information, citing them as you go. In a moment I'll add some links to your Talk Page which you should find helpful but for now, please read the pages I've linked here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will do so. McDee Pit (talk) 20:25, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK query

Hello! A long time ago you very kindly helped me to begin to understand how to do the DYK process, (it was for my first bio and was for Carol Van Strum.) I have done it very rarely since but am trying with a nomination for Mary Jane Patterson at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Jane Patterson. It is about to be timed out and is stuck! Some editors whose queries have been responded to now seem to have delayed or disappeared. I am unsure if I can do anything about it? Would you mind having a peep and letting me know if I should/can do anything? Thanks if you can. I am, as you may remember (!) pretty inexperienced at anything except from actually editing! Balance person (talk) 07:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Balance person It seems clear to me that your hook alt0b is fine: I wouldn't have been happy with the others, for the obvious reason that Patterson is a slave's daughter, not usually a relationship described as a "descendant". It looks as though Sionk was the person who first reviewed the DYK and I don't understand why they haven't approved it given their comment on 31 August. I'll ask them on their Talk Page in a moment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

See Sionk's Talk page. You assumed the DYK wasn't approved but it already had been and now awaits the next steps in the process. It will go from WP:DYKNA to one of the prep areas when one of the people who specialize in DYK move it forward. There is no deadline now, so you can relax and don't need to make further comment on the template page unless someone pings you there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:04, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh I see! I thought from Narutolovehinata5 comment on 30 August that something else had to happen. Sorry to have caused you extra work! Thanks so much for helping. Balance person (talk) 11:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Balance person Actually, it may be me who isn't understanding the issue, since I haven't run into it before. According to WP:DYKTIMEOUT the two months refers to the hook being promoted from the WP:DYKNA page to one of the preparation areas. There are details about this at WP:DYKPBR and the 2-month rule is "at the discretion of reviewers and promoters". I guess I could promote the hook myself, after making checks it is properly sourced in the article. However, I've never done that and am a bit hazy as to the process. Your nomination is currently the first one to be seen on the DYKNA page, so I imagine it will get attention from the experts who do most promotions fairly soon. If I were you, I would politely ask on BorgQueen's Talk Page if she would do the promotion. She is very active admin and works a lot at DYK (she promoted my latest one: see above here on my Talk Page). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the idea, Mike. I have popped a message on her talk page. Fingers crossed! Balance person (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again. It has now been promoted! Balance person (talk) 08:09, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok sounds excellent

Thank you T24boo 17:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo You're welcome. The homepage tab you can see when looking at your userpage should now have my name associated with it. If it doesn't, please let me know. Incidentally, I am unlikely to respond if you ask in this sort of language. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok I’ll start by saying I didn’t know how to do things in my talkpage fair enough. I didn’t even realize that because my mentor went mia and I’ve been trying so hard to edit and so I did teach myself so I got me a few bots, did my manuals and here we are today. T24boo 20:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo (22:38, 5 September 2024)

Good day, If I see a revert rollback war going on what are the steps to take. I just did one for the first time and I hope I did it correctly. Can you check if you have time. Ty --T24boo 22:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo I assume this is about Flag of Tennessee, which I see has now been semi-protected by an admin. As far as I can tell, you and Nemov did all the right things: calling in your edit summaries for discussion (by the IP) on the Talk Page and warning them on their Talk Page. I haven't tracked down how the page protection happened but I assume it was via WP:ANI. A couple of learning points. The IP was removing content and providing reasons in edit summaries (however dubious) for doing so. Hence that's not strictly WP:VANDALISM, since the IP just disagreed about the content and we have a policy explained at WP:ONUS, which says The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. So, strictly speaking, it was for you and Nemov to justify why the material should be in the article, rather than for the IP to justify why it should not be. Also, in these circumstances (content dispute, not vandalism) you must be very careful not to break the the three-revert rule or you may end up being blocked. It is always important to keep a cool head in these circumstances! Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok good and thank you for explaining it in detail so I can learn for the future. Have a good day. T24boo 13:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Helping Hand Barnstar

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		This Helping Hand Barnstar is awarded to Michael D. Turnbull, for his mentoring and helping new users, and devotion to responding to user questions at the Tea house, Help desk, and WikiProjects. Your efforts do not go unnoticed; keep up the good work! (And here's some refreshment while you're busy helping!) Mathglot (talk) 22:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Starfire Royaltin on User:Starfire Royaltin (12:46, 8 September 2024)

How to make a article about myself --Starfire Royaltin (talk) 12:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Starfire Royaltin Welcome to Wikipedia. Starting out on Wikipedia for the purpose of promoting yourself by means of a autobiography is a really bad idea, for the reasons explained at those links. Your userpage says that your claim to wikinotability (the main criterion we use to determine if an article here is worthwhile) is that you are a YouTuber. We have a few articles on American YouTubers but they were mainly written by someone other than the subject. If you insist on trying to write about yourself, then you must use the WP:AfC process, after declaring your conflict of interest. Read this advice and this essay and prepare to be disappointed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo on Volume Gallery (14:44, 8 September 2024)

Volume Gallery - how do I get the template to allow me to enter citations. It just turns blue in visual mode. If that makes sense. --T24boo 14:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo I rarely use the visual editor but there is a tutorial about it at Help:Introduction. As I understand it, for citations, you have to click the cursor at the point you wish to place a citation and then click the "Cite" part of the toolbar, which should create a tiny blue square where your cursor is. Then you click into the menu, which offers a "Manual" tab at first, with options including Website, Book etc. Obviously, you have to have in mind the citation you are going to use and be able to follow through the options as you go. An alternative method that some people use is to develop the citation in your sandbox and then copy/paste it into the article (using the source editor). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok I tried it but it’s like the template won’t allow me to place the link where I need it to go. I’d probably have to practice in my sandbox yes I’m thinking too. I had them ready to go last night than I had to end because I got stuck on that but thank you again! T24boo 15:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Johnny Rosen (Nashville) (15:27, 11 September 2024)

Want to start a page about me and my career in the entertainment industry --Johnny Rosen (Nashville) (talk) 15:27, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Johnny Rosen (Nashville) Welcome to Wikipedia. Starting out on Wikipedia for the purpose of promoting yourself by means of a autobiography is a really bad idea, for the reasons explained at those links. If you are an entertainer then you would need to meet the relevant wikinotability guidelines. If you insist on trying to write about yourself, then you must use the WP:AfC process, after declaring your conflict of interest. Read this advice and this essay and prepare to be disappointed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

thanks

I have no idea how this works

. Not self promotion only documented info. 68.89.9.217 (talk) 17:16, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Johnny Rosen (Nashville) Please ensure you log in before commenting or your edits will be assigned to your IP address, not your username. If you have sources that are independent of you (so not based on interviews), and cover you in some detail in reliable sources such as mainstream newspapers, then there is a chance you could draft an autobiography but we experienced editors know that such ventures almost always fail. I can't stop you trying! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from JusticeForChester (17:00, 12 September 2024)

Hello. How may I best edit Mike Shinodas page to express him being a rape apologist and a supporter of scientology? --JusticeForChester (talk) 17:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@JusticeForChester Short answer: very, very carefully and with solid backup from reliable sources. You are a new editor and I see that your suggestion has already been reverted by another editor. We have a process described at this link which explains how to proceed (via discussion on the article's Talk Page). Note that at every stage you need to abide by the policy for biographies of living people. Please read all the pages I have linked before you make further edits. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Cubichedetampa (21:28, 26 September 2024)

Found an artist during the Cuban revolution that is not mentioned on Wikipedia. Although there isn't much about her online. Any suggestions? --Cubichedetampa (talk) 21:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cubichedetampa Sources do not have to be online provided they are published (e.g. books). See WP:OFFLINE. My main concern would be that you are a newcomer here and won't understand yet the requirements for a new article, especially on what we call notability. I suggest you gain some experience editing existing articles, e.g. on other topics that interest you and after a while read the detailed advice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo (21:57, 30 September 2024)

Hello, I have a question about expanding an article I’m working on that has controversial elements. Ive researched and its validity is confirmed. --T24boo 21:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo Go ahead and ask the question but don't expect me to guess which article! Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

A cookie for your Teahouse tea.

I completely forgot to mention how folks with COI should look into getting edits done. Thanks for covering the gap. Maybe I don’t have the policy knowledge for the Teahouse yet, huh?
By the way, Paddy did the edit anyway… MM (Give me info.) ^(Victories) 17:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Question about Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections

Hello! I followed you here from the Teahouse. I included your suggestions and added a whole bunch of additional research projects that University Archives and Special Collections has contributed to. Would it be possible for you to take a look again? TIA!

Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections Gmecagni (talk) 14:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni The main hurdle in getting a draft accepted is usually to show notability, which is what our Teahouse discussion was about. Listing individual collections, all cited to the archive, doesn't help with that. If you like, I'll happily chop away at the draft to reduce it to what I think the reviewers will be looking for. Among other things, the lead part of the article should be summarizing the rest and not be the only place where you mention the subject strengths, for example. Indicate here in this thread if you would like me to work on the draft (probably mainly on Sunday next owing to other commitments) and I'll do so. Expect to see large parts cut but bear in mind that these can be added back later as they remain in the edit history. The idea is to make it obvious to the reviewer what confirms the notability. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I welcome your assistance with chopping the article down to size if you think that would help. I will try to add more descriptive language about subject stregnths in additional sections as well. Thank you! Gmecagni (talk) 14:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni OK, I'll give it a go on Sunday. One problem is that your academic sources (all the doi numbers) are written by staff at the library, as far as I can tell. That makes them not WP:INDEPENDENT. Incidentally, we have a gadget called the WP:Citation expander that can format citations correctly given just the doi, or you can use citer.toolforge which can take a wide range of inputs. That saves a lot of time! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni I've re-jigged the article and explained what I've done in edit summaries and a comment at the top of the draft. If you are happy with my version, or after you have made further tweaks, I suggest you re-submit it. I think it should pass the review now. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your help navigating the Wikisphere's notability requirement. I've resubmitted the article and fingers crossed it will pass muster this time. Gmecagni (talk) 11:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the page got rejected again. Do you think I should just give up at this point? #bummed Gmecagni (talk) 14:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni Yes, I noticed that it was declined today (not "rejected" which means "give up"). That's a pity as I think it was just about acceptable for notability, although I'm not an AfC reviewer. You have two options other than giving up. 1) Incorporate some of the text and the best sources into the article on Northeastern University. 2) Keep the draft in the hope that some good secondary sources covering the archive in more detail show up in the next few months. Drafts are automatically deleted after 6 months of inactivity but if you make even a small edit that resets the clock. If I were you, I'd do both options. You can also link the draft from the Talk Page of the University article and mention that anyone interested in it can add content, preferably of the sort that helps notability. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

May I ask why Zytron was removed from the list of herbicides?

I can provide sources listing it as a herbicide if you like. RustyOldShip (talk) 14:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@RustyOldShip I was just in the progress of writing on your talk page! As my edit summary said, my trusty old Pesticide Manual says Zytron was a Dow trade name for DMPA, which is already listed and exists in Wikidata, although there's no article for it. Similarly, penoxalin is a WSSA former name for pendimethalin, which we already have. I don't think we should be adding multiple names for the same thing but maybe you believe there are other chemicals which now get called these names, in which case I'd like to know what they are. BTW I meant to thank you for adding the new herbicide articles you recently created. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

For penoxalin, see top of PPDB. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I knew DMPA was another name for Zytron, but I thought Zytron was a common name as I saw it in scientific papers. Likewise penoxalin, (With an X?) though I had was not aware of any other names and thought it was also a common name.

I have been somewhat surprised that wikipedia editors rarely add textual content to the articles I make, it seems they mostly nitpick at formatting or sources (though in fairness they are usually correct and their edits are usually improvements) when from my perspective it is so easy to write text, I look up scientific articles and add anything that seems interesting. I note that your name often appears after edits adding chembox identifiers and other properties. RustyOldShip (talk) 14:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@RustyOldShip Yes, penoxalin with an "x": I had a typo here which I corrected just as you were preparing your reply! The list of herbicides was created by me using the common names listed by BCPC mainly (who use DMPA) but interestingly pubchem have Zytron. I tend to rely on BCPC and PPDB as being the specialists in current pesticide ISO Common Names, with the Pesticide Manual as backup. I have a long history in pesticide research at ICI / Zeneca Ag and Syngenta, and have contributed to or started many articles here. My userpage lists some of them. I hope you'll be happy to self-revert on penoxalin, especially as I see you edited recently at pendimethalin. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

From Augnablik: disappeared conversation

It seems that our conversation at my Talk page has evaporated — hopefully just temporarily. What I see as the most recent activity is a lot of new notifications that threads I originated in the Teahouse have been archived.

😮 Augnablik (talk) 00:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik That would indeed have been unusual, if not unprecedented! I can still see them at User talk:Augnablik#Search-and-replace and in Special:Contributions. As usual, new notifications on your Talk Page have gone in below the old ones, just as this thread is now at the bottom of my Talk Page and earlier threads are in time sequence starting with the oldest at the top. I have auto-archiving set up here, which you may need at some point. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I see that you're right … I so rarely engage in conversation on my Talk page that what I was doing was looking for a message thread under your name, not the one I used when I posted in the Teahouse (Search-and-replace).

Okay, back to my User page, chastened.

Augnablik (talk) 12:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik On any standard browser, Ctrl-F can be used for search and if you had searched for "Mike" on your Talk Page, you would have found the thread. That sort of search is often useful on long pages. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, good to know. I'm beginning to see that many standard word processing tricks — like Ctrl F — also work in Wikipedia. Augnablik (talk) 12:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Nice work

I'm impressed with all you've done with this new editor. Joyous! Noise! 15:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad you approve. It was good to get a positive response from them, although that's yet to be translated into their editing of the articles in question. Many of the newcomers who ask mentoring questions here on my Talk Page end up abandoning Wikipedia, which is disappointing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 00:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you receive …

Hi, Mike. I’m not sure you received what I sent yesterday because I got confused where to send it: your talk page or mine, as we hadn't connected in awhile since you agreed to take a look at my "knotty problem." During that time, I was writing it up for you.

I think the message might be only on my own user page, though I did start off with an "@" for you.

In addition to my question of whether you got it, here's another. I'd expected to send you an attachment of my word-processed write-up but found I couldn't. Then I realised this was probably a security protection, but I wasn't at all happy with how it looked when just pasted into a message. It wouldn't be easy for you to read. Is there any way around this so you can see it formatted as in the original? Augnablik (talk) 13:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik I've been busy but was just about to take a look at your userpage in detail after the ping. There is no way to format a Word document into Wikipedia but you could send it to me via email. To start, there's a link on the right-hand "tools" menu on user pages and user talk page. My userpage also includes a specific userbox with the relevant link. The only downside from your point of view is that your own email address will be included the first message you send me. Initially, you won't be able to attach the Word document but when I reply from my personal email then we can exchange standard messages that do include attachments. Go ahead now if you want to do this. Otherwise, I'll reply on your Talk pge, which is the best place for the conversation since most of what you have written is already there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Glad to know that the message reached you yesterday — it verifies for me that writing "@" with a user name works, apparently no matter what the source page is.

If you can really read the squished-up message, fine. Otherwise, I'd be happy to go the e-mail route, as you suggested with the addition of one additional step to make the attachment possible. I knew my e-address would be visible. Augnablik (talk) 15:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik You should just now have an alert saying I sent you an email! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Augnablik (19:25, 18 November 2024)

It was a joy to find myself adopted by you! We've already had many back-and-forths elsewhere, so this won't be my first question to you, just in our new roles. Nor will it be a practical one. But now that I know you and other assigned mentors often have 600 mentees at the same time, I can't resist asking you this:

Although I understand that not all assigned mentees continue the relationship with their mentors, how do mentors keep up with even those who do stay involved? What a balancing act you and your colleagues must engage in ... especially someone like you who's admitted to enjoying problem solving! :0 --Augnablik (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik I don't find it difficult to keep in contact with the 1% or so of editors who I become engaged with. Some of these are because of my replies to them at the Teahouse or Helpdesk, rather than because I'm their allocated mentor. If you look at my Talk Page here, + archive, you'll see the results. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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Protected article editing (originally brought up at the Help Desk)

Hi, "Dad." After getting the suggestion you made at the Help Desk about how I could use a template to edit the doner kebab article, I went back to it to see if I could succeed with what you said. Frankly, I was confused by the directions, just as I had been by what another editor had suggested a little earlier. At any rate, when I re-read the alert message at the top of the article about its protected status, it turned out that autoconfirmed editors could edit after all — and so I was able to edit as usual.

This afternoon's adventure reinforced for me what a long way I have to go in using templates. Maybe the use of templates is one of Wiki's special tools for which there's a video (I hope).

It occurred to me to mention to you (perhaps needlessly) that even though you've adopted me, if I have a question like the one on editing a protected article that seems of more general interest for many other editors besides just me, it would make more sense for me to post at the Help Desk or even the Teahouse. That way I can save more individual questions I might have to ask you on your Talk page at another time.

And (spoiler alert): there is indeed another knotty problem plea for help coming up. But probably not for several weeks, as it will take awhile to get it written up for you. Augnablik (talk) 14:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik Yes, in general the Teahouse and Help desk will not only be faster but is where people can search archives to find the Q&A long-term. I'm still waiting for you to begin working on the biography article related to your previous knotty problems, where I've suggested the way forward! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to go back over what I've already done with Ramendra's article and work on it some more in light of some of the things you brought up before I share it with you. The reason I put it aside for some months was not only because I felt I'd hit a wall on it but also because I was involved in a major move — which is just winding down. Also I have several other ongoing responsibilities to keep on top of and at the moment, I'm recuperating from a week of flu. Back in the saddle soon on Ramendra.ms article.

Augnablik (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from AAkurya (22:50, 20 November 2024)

An haife ni a garin kurya Madaro cikin iyalin (Idris abdullahi kurya) Abubakar Idris Kurya da Hauwa’u Suleiman. Sunka haifeni sun mini tarbiyya da nunamani ƙauna, sun kuma koya mani darajar gaskiya, haƙuri, da kuma taimakon juna. Mun yi girma a cikin al’adun Hausawa, inda aka koya mana mu girmama manya, mu yi aiki tukuru, kuma mu riƙe addininmu. Waɗannan dabi’u sun zama ginshiƙi na rayuwata. Na gode wa Allah da ya ba ni damar samun irin wannan tarbiyya da kuma dama ta samun ilimi. Ina kuma gode wa iyayena da dangina da suka yi min goyon baya. Zan ci gaba da kokari na domin na yi wa al’ummata da ƙasata hidima.” --AAkurya (talk) 22:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(Google translate): I was born in the town of Kurya Madaro in the family of (Idris Abdullahi Kurya) Abubakar Idris Kurya and Hauwa'u Suleiman. They gave birth to me and showed me love, they also taught me the value of honesty, patience, and helping each other. We grew up in the Hausa culture, where we were taught to respect elders, work hard, and keep our religion. These values ​​have become the foundation of my life. I thank God for giving me the opportunity to have this kind of upbringing and the opportunity to get education. I also thank my parents and family for supporting me. I will continue my efforts because I have served my community and my country.

@AAkurya This is the English Wikipedia. I think you want the Hausa Wikipedia at this link. Wannan shine Wikipedia na Ingilishi. Ina tsammanin kuna son Wikipedia ta Hausa a wannan mahadar. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Augnablik (18:19, 21 November 2024)

When we signed up as editors, did we answer a question about our sex? I ask because I don't see that information at my User page, but someone recently referred to me with the correct personal pronoun and I wondered how he would know which to use. --Augnablik (talk) 18:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik Random passerby here. When registering, you have the optional choice of setting your preferred gender. I don't really know how the system works either, but I personally have a user script that tells me the pronouns of everyone I see based on that setting, so that editor could have a similar tool. TheWikiToby (talk) 20:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik These preferences are usually set globally for your accounts right across Wikipedia, at Special:GlobalPreferences. Many long-term editors use the gadget navigation popups set at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Once activated, that gadget does lots of useful things, including giving the gender and number of edits etc of users when you hover the cursor over their name. Hence I readily see that TheWikiToby uses male pronouns and has 4517 edits to date. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, I just don't recall ever answering a M-F question … that's why I wondered how that other editor knew (other than divine wisdom). Augnablik (talk) 10:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I now understand a bit more about this as of today, TheWikiToby. There's a global preceded setting we can use to display information about ourselves. No extra tool needed. I'm a little shaky on how to get to those settings and I'd have to go back and try to get to the same command one more time before I could claim full confidence. But at least I have the general idea. UPDATE:Found it again. Here's the simple way: you can just click on your icon top right and when you see a menu, click on Preferences. Then just look down for the one that has GENDER in its title and go to work.

A barnstar for you!

		The Good Heart Barnstar
		You're so kind and supportive. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 12:18, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Adding line space

Mike, isn't there a way to add line space between paragraphs, and in the Visual rather than Source Editor? I hate to make it hard for readers of my messages not to see the text less bunched up together. Augnablik (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik The "Reply" tool on Talk Pages strips out multiple carriage returns. I'm using this now and have inserted one <cr> character here

which gives this line with limited space before it or

two <cr> to insert more space

or even three <cr>. All end up with only one in the output. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

However, using the source editor, I can put in as many <cr> as I like:

here with a single space before it or

here with two spaces

or here with three <cr>. You need to look a tthe source code to see the difference. I don't use the visual editor very much but you can practice with it in your WP:Sandbox. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Errkk, not happy news. I'm sure there are others in addition to me who'd really appreciate being able to stay in Visual Editor all the time to do our work, like as if we were in our word processor. It just feels so weird in Source Editor.

Seems as if the tekkies ought to be able to make that possible. Augnablik (talk) 16:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

There are quite a few things that are much easier to do in the source editor. However, as more and more people want to read and edit WP from Smartphones, I think that developments to making editing easier that way will continue. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you read WP:SMARTPHONE and links therein. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I've pretty much stopped trying to use my iPhone for editing because it seems impossible to use it to edit in the Visual Editor. To me, the Source Editor looks too cluttered to work with, especially on a small phone.

But I'll try to bite the bullet and try to do the things in Source Editor that, for now at least, seem beyond my reach in Visual Editor. Prayers welcome ... Augnablik (talk) 18:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of which, is there anything like a place for writing the Wikipedia tekkies a user request like this? Not that I doubt others have made requests over the years, but still …

And perhaps get replies from the tekkies, like, "Thanks, yes, we'll work on that," "Sorry, no — here's why"? Augnablik (talk) 23:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik The place to make technical requests is the Village Pump - technical. Note the "Ideas" tab and read all the instructions for each type of request. On a grander scale is the WP:WISHLIST. You'll need to read that page and its links to see how it works. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Wish List — perfect. Thanks! I'm already involved at the Idea Lab with something else. Augnablik (talk) 10:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect permission info: what to do

Hi, Mike. I've been trying familiarize myself about the ArbCom election, as I came to see the value of doing so. In the process, I also came to read about the experience of one of the candidates with an editor by the name of TheresNoTime.

Since I learned that all his major permissions have been removed, I was surprised to find his name under users with CheckUser permission (see below). Obviously an oversight, but I have no idea who to alert.

Suggestions?

There are currently 55 users with the CheckUser permission on the English Wikipedia. A complete listing is available at Special:Listusers/checkuser. As of 15 November 2024, the following editors form the CheckUser team on the English Wikipedia:

Appointed community checkusers Alison, Blablubbs, DatGuy, Dreamy Jazz, EdJohnston, Ferret, Girth Summit, Ivanvector, Materialscientist, Mz7, NinjaRobotPirate, Oshwah, Ponyo, Reaper Eternal, RoySmith, Spicy, SQL, ST47, Stwalkerster, TheresNoTime, Vanamonde93, Versageek, Yamla, Zzuuzz Augnablik (talk) 08:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik That editor is a software engineer employed by the WMF and on the Wikimedia UK board of trustees. As an admin, they are bound to have had run-ins with various other people from time to time. I think you must have misunderstood the all his major permissions have been removed part. I suggest you do nothing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Augnablik (talk) 10:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Kind of urgent

Mike ... I should have written you before posting at the Help Desk, but when I thought of what time of day it would be for you in the UK, I made a mistake in thinking it was your night time. You're behind me, not the other way around. Here's what I asked at the Help Desk.

________________

I just posted a question for the first of all the candidates over at the Arb Committee site, and — because I rarely use the Source Editor — ran into trouble right away. I think the candidate I was writing to was the last one on the list, Krakatoa Katie.

At any rate, my message didn't get into a box — there are some stray numbers on the first and last paragraph — and there's an apostrophe just before the first character of the italicized paragraph. I've come here for help rather than writing the election coordinators because it didn't seem they were actually first responders.

I'm not sure that my question is even visible to others because it didn't go into a box. But if it is visible, it's in bad shape. And I'd really like to post it to all the candidates.

UPDATE: In case you started to look into the above, Editor Maproom has just stepped in to help me at the Help Desk.

AND SINCE HE STEPPED IN, I MYSELF ADDED: @Maproom, now that I went back to that location I see that the candidate to whom I posted was CaptainEek, not Krakatoa Katie. The first candidate on the list, not the last one. And my message looks a little more correctly formatted than it did earlier. Perhaps someone involved with the election stepped in to make the fix, though there is still a stray number 1 at the beginning of the message and no box. Below is the address. Thanks for helping! Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024/Candidates/CaptainEek/Questions Augnablik (talk) 08:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC) @Maproom, I just noticed something in the directions for submitting questions to candidates that I hadn't read before: "Use the |list resume= option to correct list numbering issues, by manually specifying the start point." This seems relevant to that stray number 1 that got into my message, but I have no idea how to use that option. Augnablik (talk) 10:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC) Augnablik (talk) 06:57, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik: I fixed the formatting, I hope, in this edit. CaptainEek had already tried to do so and said in his edit summary that his reply would be delayed owing to Thanksgiving. You messed the page up again by adding to your question. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks … though I didn't add anything till after I went back to the question I'd sent her and saw the number 1 was still there. So she had been the mystery fixer-upper … 😅

Now I'll try to copy/paste the same message for the other candidates. Augnablik (talk) 12:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I've gotten myself into some deep yogurt at the election site where I'd hoped to copy/paste the message to CaptainEek to the other 11 candidates. The question for her looked okay except for the title that for some reason says Answer plus a stray piece of ending code.

So with that minor success, I decided to try copying my Source Editor message to CaptainEek over to the next candidate on the list, Just Step Sideways, adjusting the question number and attempting to add the title. But the pasted message doesn't show up at all, only the title, which I probably placed incorrectly because I never saw the usual Title field for a message.

A very challenging day, as I'm also facing technical issues in typing messages. I get to the end of a sentence or a phrase, and when I start a new one the capital letter or the dash, colon, or semicolon jump backwards to the start of the previous sentence and I have to copy it to the place I intended it. Nothing like this is going on anywhere else on my computer. Gremlins for sure.

Since Maproom hasn't come back to my issue on the Help Desk after some hours ago, and I may be overloading you, I think I'm supposed to call it a day for now. Perhaps some magic will happen overnight. Augnablik (talk) 15:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik The way the ARBcom questions have to be asked is probably beyond the capabilities of 90% of editors, possibly intentionally! I've fixed your second one, which used the wrong (i.e. non-existent) template. Adding questions takes pretty good knowledge of source editing and my suggestion would be to vote based on the information already present. I don't bother to vote in ARBcom elections since the work of that committee is so remote to anything I do on Wikipedia. I've also "signed off" your Help Desk question. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The wrong template? Hmmm. I thought I copied exactly what I used for CaptainEek, with the exception of the title placement because of the impossibility of seeing a title field to put it in.

Source editing and I have definitely not yet become friends. An experience like today makes me feel even more edgy than I already was about using it. I'm really surprised that the tekkies haven't made it possible for us to do everything in the Visual Editor by now — that is, unless we prefer Source. That's exactly what happened in computer work in general, after all. Thank God we can use apps and not have to write arcane coding to accomplish our work.

As for voting in the election, I do plan to just go ahead on the basis of the existing comments from the candidates and other editors, not waiting long for their answers to my question. That question was an add-on, so to speak, though I do think it's quite relevant to Wikipedia overall. Surely if there are elections for people we'll be working under — who might someday be making decisions about our "knotty problems," why wouldn't we want to understand the work they're being elected to carry out and gain insight as to how it could directly interface with our own work. 😗

I came away impressed with most of the candidates, seeing them through Wiki's 360-degree camera view offering a combination of self-descriptions, answers to direct questions from other editors, and discussion among other editors. The process humanizes both the candidates and the demands on them so we outsiders see something of their own challenges.

Augnablik (talk) 17:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't consider I "work under" anyone. Content is determined by consensus and no editor has the ability to overrule any other. We all work within the agreed policies and guidelines and provided you don't infringe those, you won't be blocked or banned from the site. The role of ARBcom is mainly to rule on areas where there are legitimate, or illegitimate, differences in editors' points of view: e.g. regarding US elections or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Point taken about "working under" others in Wikipedia. I think my use of that term mirrors something that new and relatively new editors may feel for quite awhile after coming on board with Wikipedia, that if we make a misstep in regard to certain kinds of policies and guidelines, we can easily be blocked or banned.

Of course, civility and open discussion about differences of opinion go a long way in making that not happen. Plus supportive mentors with years of Wiki experience from the trenches who materialize unexpectedly from time to time ... Augnablik (talk) 21:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Best tutorials on Sandbox & Source Editor?

I need to get started in earnest on working with these tools, and would love to get ahold of some in-depth videos with good examples and practice cases to work on. Any suggestions?

Augnablik (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Check out WP:Cheat for some basics. I don't know about videos but if there are any they should be linked from Help:Introduction. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

A start. Thanks. I had to use the image insertion code just today. I wonder if there's a master collection of all the Wikipedia learning material somewhere ... Augnablik (talk) 17:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Question from Félix Langlois (12:38, 29 November 2024)

Hello I'd like to modify a diagram on an article. How do I do that? --Félix Langlois (talk) 12:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Félix Langlois Welcome to Wikipedia. There is general advice at Help:Pictures. I would need some more information to help you further. By "modify" do you mean "replace one diagram with a totally different diagram" or "edit the diagram in a minor way". Diagrams/images are stored at out sister project Wikimedia Commons and there is more help at that link. Post into this thread on my Talk Page with the name of the article and the image if you need more advice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Mr. Turnbull for replying so quickly to my request. I'd like to modify the 2nd picture in https://wiki.eso.workers.dev/wiki/Forces_on_sails. Every black arrow in the picture should be pointing towards the boat instead of away from the boat. I would also like to change some text in the article. Buy I believe that for now you're only interested in picture modifications.

Best regards Félix Langlois (talk) 23:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm thinking of simply using the Talk feature regarding the article. I'm sure that the person(s) who wrote the article worked very hard writing it. So, if I first start a discussion with the article author(s), perhaps I can convince him or them to edit the article reflecting my comments.

I'm hoping that they'll agree with me because I really believe that there are errors in the article.

What do you think?

Thank you and best regards Félix Langlois (talk) 03:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

@Félix Langlois I've looked at File:Points of sail--English.jpg and I think it's already correct. The black arrows are vectors showing the speed and direction of the boat. If the black arrow pointed towards the boat, this would imply it was moving in reverse, I think. Maybe you thought the black arrow is the drag force on the boat? I see that the file is also used on the main article on sailing, so I'm pretty sure that if it was wrong someone would have already noticed! You are correct in thinking you can raise any concerns on the Talk Page of an article and be cautious in this case. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your advice. Unfortunately I disagree with you. I will start a new topic in the Talk portion of the article.

Thank you Félix Langlois (talk) 03:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

A "Thank-You-for_Brightening-My-Day" award for you

Mike ...

A few days ago I used my new Wiki image-creation and Source Editor code skills to create a sort of personal award to show my appreciation somewhere between just a thank-you and a full-fledged barnstar for Wikipedians who "make my day" with delightful little snippets of dry humor or insightful wisdom -- or else point me toward them.

I'd been inspired to do this when I serendipitously came across a delightful little exchange that took place in Wiki messaging on Nov. 6 between Just Step Sideways, who was reporting acute distress over the "state of his country" but said he was sure he could fix it by morning "if someone could just explain it to him," and two other editors. Those editors totally cracked me up with their comments, one being, “If you really can totally fix the country in the morning, I'll be very impressed” and the other, “Yes, please fix the country in the morning. I have a hot cappuccino waiting for you.” And so I created this award for them and others brightening my days with similar fare.

Meanwhile, I'd planned to award you the Guidance Barnstar, which you richly deserve for all the guidance you've given me. And even for "claiming" me as one of your mentees. I didn't realize over my 2.5 years with Wikipedia what a difference that can make in an editor's experience. It's such a warm fuzzy. But as I was about to set up that barnstar for you, it occurred to me that my little homemade award might mean more to you because it's personalized. Like how parents enjoy their little ones' artwork up on their refrigerator door ... And you've brightened my day frequently, not just one-off.

My "Thank-You-for-Brightening-My-Day"award to you

Augnablik (talk) 04:34, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Today's questions

1. If I want to go to an article for editors but I don't recall the acronym to use with WP:, is there some way to try to get there? Example: today I wanted to go back to an article entitled Structured Tasks that I'd visited a few days earlier (thus not in my current History) — but I couldn't, at least not at first. Eventually I found my way back, but it would have been much easier if I could have typed words in the Search field that I remembered from the title and seen a list of possibilities.

2. Once back at that article's Talk page, I wanted to ask a question but found no way to "add a topic". Are some articles' Talk pages actually protected from discussion? If so, it seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of a Talk page. Augnablik (talk) 13:13, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik That page is at MediaWiki, which behaves as if it were in another language, just like the French main page. Wikipedia accounts are global, so your logon works there as it would here. However, assuming you didn't edit at that Structured Tasks page, the software doesn't "remember" that you visited that particular page, just as it doesn't remember which articles you have read but not edited. So, yes, it can be difficult to "find your way back". However, if you had remembered that the page was on MediaWiki (where most of the pages about growth team features exist), you could have readily used its search bar to find the right page. That's exactly the way you would search for a French article: you have to be in the correct wiki for the search bars to work locally.

The page there that you have linked above is not a Talk Page and it is not an article: it is a page [that] describes the Growth team's work on the "structured tasks" project. It does indeed have its own talk page, which for reasons I don't understand is reached from the "Discussion" tab, although when you get there it calls itself a Talk Page! MediaWiki tak pages like that place new threads at the top, so the reverse of standard en:Wikipedia conventions. Again, don't ask me why. I see little in the way of discussion there: the newest thread is from July. Note that your account has separate watchlists and contribution histories at each language version of Wikipedia as well as at Commons, MediaWiki etc. To see your global contribution, try the link at the foot of Special:Contributions/Augnablik where it says "Global contributions" and you'll find that there are 869 wikis, with your contributions currently at 2 of them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding User boxes to User pages

I'd like to add some User boxes like you have on your User page. It was fairly easy to use the Babel template to add languages, but I'd like to:

1- Create a new one, currently shown in red on my User page as non-existent but nonetheless described … and

2- See what's available in the already created User boxes. Augnablik (talk) 10:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I think you already know that to find such things, you just have to search with a WP: prefix, so WP:USERBOX and links therein. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:11, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Mike ... I had gone to that page earlier but I didn't find a gallery of boxes to choose from. After you replied, I went back and then I found a link to a gallery that had been rather hidden on my first trip to the page.

Since I didn't find quite what I wanted, even though a few boxes came close, I ended up just typing the things I had hoped to find boxes for. Augnablik (talk) 17:56, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Question from Ken651 on Julian Lewis (American football) (03:12, 6 December 2024)

So im trying to add his elementary school because im proud to know i went to elementary school with him but i dont know how to add it right --Ken651 (talk) 03:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Ken651 and welcome to Wikipedia. As you will learn as you gain experience here, the encyclopedia articles are not based on what you know, or what I know, but instead rely on what has already been published in a reliable source. We want readers to be able to verify what Wikipedia says and hence be confident the information is accurate. This is especially important in the case of biogrpahies of living people (please read that linked page). I can try to help you find a suitable source we can use for the article. To do that, please tell me the name of your elementary school. In a moment, I'll add some other links to your Talk Page, which will help you know more. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:54, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mahmudurr (22:18, 7 December 2024)

How to start writing new articles? I can't find the option to write a new article. --Mahmudurr (talk) 22:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Mahmudurr and welcome to Wikipedia. In a moment, I'll add a set of links to your Talk Page, which will include some about writing new articles, which should use the articles for creation process. Note that my usual advice to new editors is to start small and edit existing articles first until you get to know your way around. Drafting acceptable articles is more difficult than it may appear! Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

RK article

After a month of the most serious flu I've ever had, and only occasionally emerging on Wikipedia for short comments here and there plus some fun additions to my User page, I'm again ready to tackle the Ramendra Kumar article. To my amazement, it's undergone major surgery by other editors in the past few months. There's hardly anything left of it ... literally!

Perhaps this will make it easier to do a full TNT on it. At any rate, now I'll work as fast as possible to get the article ready for your inspection. I've just alerted Ramendra that he'll need to also do some surgery on his personal website so I can use it as a source for certain things like how many books he's published.

With that in mind, I have a question: is it okay in an article going in as TNT to put a citation or two with the tag {{source coming soon }}? Or else cite Ramendra's website even if the number of books hasn't yet been posted there?Augnablik (talk) 10:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik This is slightly tricky because the account which made many recent edits (actually deletions) to Ramendra Kumar has been indefinitely blocked for various reasons probably not related to that article. In today's state, the article is not too bad and you can probably just build it back up, maybe looking in the page history to see if earlier versions actually had useful cited content and restoring any that did: there is now no need for you to go via a new draft in your sandbox. However, the first thing you need to do is to explain on the Talk Page of the article your relationship with Kumar by virtue of the fact that you have been in contact with him (that's a clear COI but nothing to be ashamed of). On Wikipedia there is no such template as "source coming soon" as that violates a core policy described at WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Also, there is no deadline here, better to take things slowly and get them right rather than rush.

I don't see any need for me to oversee your additions straight into the article: we know there are at least two other editors who are interested in it and it is not a topic I know anything about. Of course I'd be happy to be consulted (via its Talk page) for any specific technical problems you run into. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Did you really say you think that article is "not too bad," Mike? There's nothing left of it, hardly. Of course, considering the quality of what was there, maybe I see your point…😅

All right, forward ho. Just one thing, though: could you answer the other question I'd asked in my message: "Or else cite Ramendra's website even if the number of books hasn't yet been posted there?" Augnablik (talk) 14:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

You can certainly cite his website. The formal advice for what it is acceptable to use is at WP:ABOUTSELF. You cannot cite what is not (yet) there. Usually for authors, the {{authority control}} template is used and links to their Wikidata item. This will automatically pick up various standard book catalogues when they are present in Wikidata. See Help:Authority control. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

18:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, I want to see the entire revision history under the History tab for the RK article, but I'm being shown only selected revisions ... and I see no way to override that so I can see all of them. I could swear the first time I clicked on History, I did see all of them. I don't recall doing anything then that would show me so few now.. Augnablik (talk) 18:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't know what is going on in your browser but all histories default to showing the latest 20 revisions, with an option at the foot of the resulting page to show more. If you click the "500" option for that particular article you get to this page which shows every single revision from when the article was created in 2010. Note how almost all after 2 December are deletions. As the the query you added here and then deleted, you don't have to use a template to declare a COI: just create a section header and place a simple piece of text below, much like you did when you told me about this on your Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, you saw the query before I deleted it ... well, the reason I did that was because I realized it was a general query I could just ask at the Help Desk rather than bother you with it. You're saying I could create a section header within the RK article itself???

Will check out the History situation again. Augnablik (talk) 12:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Not in the article! On its Talk Page. Much the same suggestion as Hoary gave you at the Help Desk. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

So I guess you mean somewhere on the article's Talk page this is what I'd place:

== Conflict of interest == [line break] I have a conflict of interest with [what it is that you have a COI with].

Are there any advantages of doing this over using a template?

I have to admit I'm feeling a little unsteady about doing this.

Augnablik (talk) 13:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Templates are best for article subjects who have no intention of editing the article and will use edit requests on the Talk Page if they want to make changes. I assume you do want to edit the biography directly and so you need to explain the nature of your COI in a section where others can comment if they disagree that you should be doing that. Relax! It is highly unlikely anyone will object if you are open about your plans. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

You've just given me the guidance I was hoping for but wasn't getting earlier: the confirmation that I can go ahead and explain the situation along with my declaration of COI. This didn't come up in the Help Desk discussions.

I could be wrong but at this new point in my Wiki life, I have the sense that for editors to share a little background information about their COIs rather than just an impersonal announcement, it can help make other editors more willing to give them the benefit of doubt if and when differences of opinion come up during work on the article.

Now I can indeed relax! ;) Augnablik (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I've just come up with an opening statement for a COI announcement that I rather like:

==Conflict of Interest==

"As an editor working on this article, I must mention that I have what Wikipedia calls a conflict of interest due to connection with the topic of the article inasmuch as I ..........."

I wonder if it would be helpful if I went a step further and explained why I thought I could maintain objectivity despite the connection? I'm tempted to do that, because it could help allay concern some editors might have about any editor, not just me, with a particular COI.

Augnablik (talk) 16:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

K.I.S.S. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

😂 Augnablik (talk) 16:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

How well I remember that advice from my days in the world of training. Well, I found what I think is a compromise in wording so I get to say something I feel the need to, yet not overload the message — thus following K.I.S.S.. It will soon go up at the RK page.

With all your recent help, especially with my COI agonies, I just have to go forward with that Guidance Barnstar. My little Thank-You-for-Brightening-My-Day award pales at this point. But I hope it will grace your refrigerator door for awhile longer. Augnablik (talk) 03:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

		The Guidance Barnstar
		A small token of appreciation, Mike, for so much helpful guidance as well as taking me under your wing. I can’t think of a more appropriate symbol for this barnstar than a compass. Augnablik (talk) 03:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

RK Article #2

With the COI knots behind us, on to the next knotty problem — much smaller in scope, I'm sure — with which I need your guidance in the RK article: how to proceed with the reconstruction. First I have a little update or two for you.

1- As you might assume, I posted a COI on the article's Talk page, following your recommendation that this be the first step.

2- I contacted the two editors who did some constructive work on the article in recent months, as you also recommended, and invited them to collaborate in further editing. One of them quickly replied that he'd "love to" and so now we're in close contact. I have a good feeling about this editor, though he has only a little over 400 edits. The other hasn't yet replied.

3- The newest question for you: although you recommended restoring much of the article and working on that, I have what I think is a pretty good version of it that I'd earlier saved and taken much further. So, considering that other editors pretty much TNTd it and no one has undone it or officially squawked about it, couldn't the other editor and I just drop that in to work on? Or perhaps work on it together outside Wikipedia and then drop it in?

4- Which reminds me: do you think it would be a good idea for the other editor and me to create a new section on the article's Talk page in which we explain that we are now a partnership collaborating on the article, so others understand that when edits are made by one of us, it's actually by both? Augnablik (talk) 08:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

5- BTW, the way the other editor came to work on the RK article was that it had been added to the group of articles suggested to all editors as in need of working on.

I don't think I recommended restoring the whole article. What I said was that you should look in the page history to see if earlier versions actually had useful cited content and restoring any that did, i.e. copy/paste out selective parts. You don't need to use the talk page about any collaboration unless you end up disagreeing with others about content, which you can tell if you are reverted. I think your best bet now is to be WP:BOLD and actually improve the article. You have spent far too much time debating how to do that and now you need to get on and add content. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

It may not seem so but I'm geared up for the practical work stage.

What I was trying to explain was that outside Wikipedia, I'd made a version of the article that did incorporate usable material from earlier versions along with new information. That was what I asked if you thought I could drop in the hole created by the deletions to work on. Something I wouldn't normally have asked except the article had been blown up almost completely.

If we have to revert the earlier versions exactly as they appeared in order to go forward on it, I don't see the value but would go back and try to reproduce what was there last. Augnablik (talk) 14:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

No, you don't revert them, you just open an old version in your PC browser from the history, then "Edit source" and delve into it to copy out to your clipboard the part you want to rescue. Paste it locally into a text file or MS Word, whatever is your favourite editing software, or paste it into a separate tab where you have your sandbox open. There will be a set of warning messages that you are editing an old version but provided you never save/publish anything the current version of the biography will be retained. "Cancel" your edit (lower right in the edit window) when you have finished. If you already have something usable then there is no need to do this but it will be a useful learning exercise as that's a general way, for example, to fish out a citation from one article to reuse in another article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:41, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm going with your comment that if I already have "something usable,"there's no need to go through the somewhat cumbersome process of copying from an old version of the article and pasting it elsewhere. It will be a real time-saver to avoid that.

But as a teacher, I understood your suggestion about the "useful learning experience" to be gained in fishing out (yucky analogy: I hate cruelty to fish) citations from one article to be gained in another. And so, you'll be happy to hear I set up such a learning experience for myself by going to the Wiki article "Houseboats in New York City" and finding something with a citation that I could paste into another Wiki article, "Houseboat." That was easy, so I can check it off as a new Wiki skill.

Now on to the far-from-easy other work awaiting me on the RK page. Augnablik (talk) 08:51, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Belated thanks

Mike, you provided the following answer to a question of mine in the Teahouse: "@Joel Russ I see you currently have two references pointing to essentially the same URL. The template is very versatile since it takes any text as the "page": see its |at=in-source-location parameter. That would allow you to return to using a single named reference. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)"

That was very useful for me to learn. I'm grateful for your reply.Joel Russ (talk) 15:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@Joel Russ Happy to help. I regularly respond at the Teahouse and it is always nice to be thanked. Some people just do that by "thanking" my contribution in the page history, which is absolutely fine. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Documentation to upload photos taken by others

Hi, Mike. I'm knee-deep in working on the Ramendra Kumar article and I'd like to upload some photos taken of him by members of his immediate family. From the Special: Upload Wizard, I understand that to do this, I have to get some sort of permission. I've read documentation at the Wikimedia Commons but I'm not quite clear on which template to use. Can you point me in the right direction on this?

Ramendra is happy to provide good copies of photos as well as whatever documentation is needed. Augnablik (talk) 17:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik All should be explained at c:Commons:Volunteer_Response_Team. Everything can be done by email - the copyright holder (i.e. the actual photographer) should be the person to send the email, naming the file(s) that were uploaded. The uploading itself can be by someone else, such as you. Normally, you will have a week from the upload until the file would be deleted if a permission had not been given. Use the default Commons license of CC BY SA 4.0. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks ... this area of Wiki work seems one with the deepest yogurt to wade through. Yet the same yogurt purveyor, the Commons, has a wonderful little basic user aid on copyright in cartoon format. It's among the best user aids I've come across, even though it doesn't go as far as I needed.

I'd love to thank the individual or team for that aid. Do you know who that would be? Augnablik (talk) 01:56, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik There seems to be a specific place to leave feedback on the upload process at c:Commons:Upload Wizard feedback. I found that link at the top of the upload page itself. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Turnbull, errrkkk. I found out that getting a green light from the VRT team can take up to 31 days once we fill out the required paperwork because there are so few team members available for that purpose. Augnablik (talk) 13:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)