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November 30

[edit]
November 30, 2021 (2021-11-30) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Marie-Claire Blais

[edit]
Article: Marie-Claire Blais (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian French language writer. Article requires good amount of work before being ready for homepage. If someone has cycles to join-in to help with the article, please do. Thanks. Edits done. Article looks good and meets hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 22:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Oriol Bohigas

[edit]
Article: Oriol Bohigas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Vanguardia
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish Catalan architect and urban planner. Promoted the modernization of Barcelona's urban planning. I've been working on his article, but I still have to polish the "Works", "Books" and "Awards" sections. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Warren (computer specialist)

[edit]
Article: Jim Warren (computer specialist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Technologist. Death announced in WP:RS on this date. Article requires some work but should be done soon. Ktin (talk) 22:07, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marcus Lamb

[edit]
Article: Marcus Lamb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 22:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@PFHLai: now down to one CN tag, which shouldn't be enough to stop an article from appearing on ITN RD. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:50, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phil Dwyer

[edit]
Article: Phil Dwyer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death announced on 30 November. Good article status. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 15:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mary Maher (journalist)

[edit]
Article: Mary Maher (journalist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Irish Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American-born Irish trade unionist, feminist, and journalist. TJMSmith (talk) 17:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Bibliography section is unsourced. Apart from this, in my point of view, it's good to go.--Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 02:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the bibliography is OK I think, as ISBN numbers have now been supplied which verify the books' existence. Just a couple of issues for me - firstly, her being a feminist is not explicitly mentioned in the body, so needs a citation, and secondly the sentence saying she was "part of a group" doesn't say what the group was. On another note, attaching some years to the "firsts" mentioned, for context, would be a definite plus.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - sorry- I apparently forgot to finish a sentence in it. I'll have to go back and put the dates to the firsts though.. ☕ Antiqueight chatter 10:33, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Feminist is also implicit when it states she founded the Irish Women's Liberation Movement and several of the citations explicitly call her a feminist. Firsts are a problem for me right now - none of the articles about her give specific dates. However, as stated I had missed a sentence - I was putting the links on the other names and got distracted. ☕ Antiqueight chatter — Preceding undated comment added 10:44, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Siobhan Cattigan

[edit]
Article: Siobhan Cattigan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Record, BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death announced on 30 November. Couple more sources needed. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:44, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Max Bingham

[edit]
Article: Max Bingham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Government of Tasmania
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Bingham was a former Deputy Premier of Tasmania. Death was announced on this date KittenKlub (talk) 17:45, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment replaced by Government of Tasmania. I would like to point out that the Examiner can be freely posted without any errors or tags. I also severely doubt that the newspaper can be trusted for an announcement of a death.KittenKlub (talk) 09:29, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is my mistake, was confusing Examiner.com.au (the Australian site) with Examiner.com (which is the one on the blacklist). So it was also fine originally. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:32, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We can't show those arms, because they are (C) College of Arms, and will be for another 70 years. I've removed the section. KittenKlub (talk) 14:54, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I did check the source, it specifically said the image was copyrighted - it's a stretch on a technicality, but if an editor would like the keep the section based on this decision, contacting the College for more information on the arms' copyright status could be worth a try. Canadianerk (talk) 15:14, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sirivennela Seetharama Sastry

[edit]
Article: Sirivennela Seetharama Sastry (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is about an award-winning Indian poet and lyricist who is quite popular, but doesn't have much information as of now so needs to be updated a ton ActuallyNeverHappened02 (a place to chalk | a list of stuff i've done) 17:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ray Kennedy

[edit]
Article: Ray Kennedy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Liverpool Echo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Arsenal, Liverpool and England international footballer  The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Sillett

[edit]
Article: John Sillett (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTE
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Along with George Curtis, who died earlier this year, Sillett was the other half of the managerial duo who took Coventry City to victory in the 1987 FA Cup Final. Needs some additional sources, which I'll be looking to add later today.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:21, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 29

[edit]
November 29, 2021 (2021-11-29) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Don Demeter

[edit]
Article: Don Demeter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/11/30/former-brooklyn-dodger-don-demeter-dies-age-86/8812818002/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: GA. Looks ready already. --PFHLai (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Lionel Messi wins the Ballon d'Or for a record seventh time

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 03:11, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Lionel Messi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Lionel Messi wins the Ballon d'Or for a record seventh time (Post)
News source(s): nytimes, independent, indianexpress
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: It is very possible that this record will never be broken. Messi and Ronaldo are aging... Tradediatalk 05:44, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: LaMarr Hoyt

[edit]
Article: LaMarr Hoyt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on Monday, reported vaguely on Twitter yesterday, confirmed by RS today – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Parag Agrawal to head Twitter as Jack Dorsey resigns

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Parag Agrawal (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After having headed Twitter for thirteen years, Jack Dorsey has announced his resignation from the company and appointed Parag Agrawal as the new CEO of Twitter. (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This will involve a change of the CEO of a company. Asingh.21 Talk 14:42, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose change of CEO is not ITN-worthy. And article about him is nowhere near good enough either, too short and almost no information in it. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:51, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article quality is well below what I would expect of a main page linked article. The "Career" section starts in 2019 as the earliest date; I can't believe that a company like twitter would name, as their CEO, any person who's CV was only two years long. I would expect something far more comprehensive for the main page. --Jayron32 17:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Barbados becomes a republic

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Barbados (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Fifty-five years after achieving independence from the United Kingdom, Barbados becomes a republic with Sandra Mason becoming the first elected head of state. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Barbados becomes a republic with Sandra Mason, the first elected head of state, replacing Queen Elizabeth II.
News source(s): Independent UK
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This will involve a change of Head of State JW 1961 Talk 14:42, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Australia had a constitutional crisis in 1975 when the royal governor of the Queen of Australia fired the prime minister due to an approaching government shutdown. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:33, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, most heads of state outside of the Americas are figureheads (notwithstanding the occasional exceptions such as SMW mentioned), whether a president or monarch. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 18:24, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Magdalena Andersson new PM

[edit]
Article: Magdalena Andersson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Magdalena Andersson becomes Sweden’s first female Prime Minister after a vote in the Riksdag. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Sweden’s first female Prime minister-designate, Magdalena Andersson, is elected PM by the Riksdag for the second time in less than a week.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Sweden, Magdalena Andersson, who resigned suddenly on November 24 after one day as PM-designate, is elected Prime Minister by the Swedish parliament.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Social Democrat Magdalena Andersson, who resigned suddenly on November 24 after one day as PM-designate, is elected Prime Minister by the Swedish parliament.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Magdalena Andersson, who resigned on November 24 after only one day as PM-designate, is elected Prime Minister by the Swedish parliament.
News source(s): AP, BBC, Reuters, DW
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: feel free to add other better blurbs. BabbaQ (talk) 13:24, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's been a wild week in Sweden. The article is sufficient, but the process by which she became Prime Minister is rather messy; I'm not sure if we should (or even if we can) cover it in a blurb, but if someone can come up with something less bland, it bears explanation. She was actually elected on November 24, was scheduled to take office on November 26, but in the intervening 48 hours her coalition suffered a loss of supply vote, causing the Green Party to withdraw from the coalition, causing a collapse of the government. She and her party then spent three days organizing a single-party government, after which she was elected a second time to the PM post. She still has never been formally appointed to the post, FWIW. That is still forthcoming. Not sure how to blurbify that, but the process is a major part of the news story here. --Jayron32 13:41, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
She will as far as I understand it become PM tomorrow. And this is now a final vote, which can not become null and void. She now is PM elect.BabbaQ (talk) 13:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: So perhaps we should slot this news for tomorrow instead when she has been formally instated (don't wanna jinx things here!) and a blurb can be: "After a politically turbulent week, twice-elected Magdalena Andersson becomes Sweden's first female Prime Minister". cart-Talk 14:08, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add Just listened to the news on Swedish Radio (our equivalent of BBC), even those reporters signed off with the caveat about Andersson's election: "Unless something unforeseen happens...". Nobody's taking anything for granted right now. cart-Talk 15:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But let's not link Sweden per MOS:OVERLINK. cart-Talk 17:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously. But the wording works, otherwise. --Jayron32 19:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've now removed the wikilink from Sweden.Tlhslobus (talk) 20:44, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Isn't the "In Sweden," in the blurb a bit redundant since "the Swedish parliament." comes later in the sentence? Also, Sweden's governing body isn't called parliament, it's called Riksdag. I think we use the correct name for a country's government. Better blubs would be: Magdalena Andersson, who resigned suddenly on November 24 after one day as PM-designate, is elected Prime Minister by the Swedish Riksdag. cart-Talk 14:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, so modified into Alt3 above, which YT now faves instead – tho Alt2 would still be OK. (More readers will understand "Swedish parliament" than "Riksdag.") – Sca (talk) 15:25, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Still a long and cumbersome blurb. Do we really put the party designation (Social Democrat) in head of government blurbs? That didn't come up before. (Do we say "Democrat Joe Biden"?) Also, "suddenly" isn't needed since the "one day" says it all, and it doesn't sound like an appropriate word to use here. Sounds too much like "Ooops, I dropped the PM position". New blurb added. cart-Talk 16:21, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, all of these ALTs should probably use "24 November" not "November 24", as Sweden uses dmy not mdy according to sources on Date format by country. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If we are anglifying this and use 'parliament' instead of Riksdag, we might as well go all in and use mdy. cart-Talk 16:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Except mdy is not "anglifying", it's Americanising. Most of the English speaking world use dmy... Like England... Joseph2302 (talk) 16:45, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Allow me to point out that at the English Wikipedia we're not writing for Swedes (or for Rutabagas, either). – Sca (talk) 18:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And I'll politely remind you Canada and Ontario are both every bit as independently anglified as English soil itself, as far as the royal-parliamentary-arcane complex goes, and we say it doesn't matter if America just so happens to agree dates look weird backward. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Allow me to point out that at the English Wikipedia we're not writing for Swedes Well this is English Wikipedia not American Wikipedia, so we don't need to adopt a date format used in the US and almost nowhere else. MOSDATETIES applies to this. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Plenty of English Wikipedia readers in Ghana, Kenya and South Africa, too, if Canada seems too American to you. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Canada use dmy as well as mdy, and all the others mentioned also use any date format. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:27, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
New Brunswick uses dmy, that hardly counts. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:45, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A teapot tempest. If that's what's delaying this, let's just say "who resigned a week earlier after one day as PM-designate...." ("Suddenly" is rendered redundant by "After one day," etc.) OK? – Sca (talk) 17:41, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PS: – Cf. — Die Sozialdemokratin Magdalena Andersson (Bild) ist zum zweiten Mal innerhalb weniger Tage zur Ministerpräsidentin von Schweden gewählt worden. ("The Social Democrat Magdalena Andersson (pictured) has been elected Prime Minister of Sweden for the second time in a few days.") – Sca (talk) 17:50, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, I think the delay is because ITN wants to give the Barbados blurb a bit more time as top spot. A far more important event than our (Swedish) teapot election squabbles. I don't mind, I can wait. :-) cart-Talk 17:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of Barbados, DYK that Rihanna gets in excess of 10,000 Wikiwords? – Sca (talk) 18:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]


(Posted) RD: David Gulpilil

[edit]
Article: David Gulpilil (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/aboriginal-actor-yolngu-david-dalaithngu-crocodile-dundee-dies/8468524
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian Aboriginal actor Stephen 12:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support A significant figure in Australian performing arts. I have cleaned up and added some citations, other editors have been adding citations and generally working to improve the article. It appears we don't need to change the article name at this time. ClaudineChionh (talk – contribs) 07:09, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Highly notable, and the article is of sufficient quality at this stage, although I have further additions when I have time and there is always room for improvement. The name is a bit of a quandary, but that discussion belongs on the talk page of the article. Please contribute. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:40, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per above, not an expert on the concerns regarding naming above, but I would suggest referring to him to the name his family requests for him to be referred, as it would most likely be posted during the mourning period. Article is of enough quality, with sources considered, and is notable enough to be included in RD. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:22, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as David Dalaithngu. --PFHLai (talk) 11:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Brian Kelly Resigns as Notre Dame head coach to take new job at LSU

[edit]
WP:SNOW -- this is not notable enough to be posted on ITN and will never get consensus. (non-admin closure) -- RockstoneSend me a message! 10:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Brian Kelly (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Brian Kelly resigns as the head coach of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football to become the head coach of the LSU Tigers. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Notre Dame head football coach Brian Kelly resigns from his position to become the head football coach of the LSU Tigers after spending 11 years with the Fighting Irish.
News source(s): The Advocate, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, USA Today, Associated Press (via U.S. News & World Report), The New York Times, CBS Sports, Wall Street Journal, CNN, etc.
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Seems like one of the most significant stories in college football over the past year. — Mhawk10 (talk) 04:42, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 28

[edit]
November 28, 2021 (2021-11-28) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Jolene Unsoeld

[edit]
Article: Jolene Unsoeld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Olympian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American congresswoman. TJMSmith (talk) 00:12, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Emily Mkamanga

[edit]
Article: Emily Mkamanga (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): malawi24
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Malawian writer and social commentator. TJMSmith (talk) 15:24, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Carrie Meek

[edit]
Article: Carrie Meek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American congresswoman. A few CN tags.  TJMSmith (talk) 15:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Honduran general election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2021 Honduran general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Xiomara Castro is elected President of Honduras. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Xiomara Castro is elected the first female President of Honduras.
News source(s): LA Times, Reuters, DW, El Heraldo (in Spanish), Guardian, AP, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The counting is halfway through, but she has a 20 points advantage. She already claimed victory and some news outlets in Honduras are stating that she's virtually elected. Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 07:41, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait, Castro and Asfura have both claimed victory, and while Castro is clearly in the lead at the moment, nobody is certain how this election will turn out with such a volatile situation. I would support the blurb when counting has reached the point where it is undeniable that Castro has won and more than a few news outlets have acknowledged the win. Especially given that this would be the first time since 2009 where the National Party loses the presidency. For the time being though, its best we wait on such a contentious election. Ornithoptera (talk) 08:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait While it seems likely that Castro will win the election, considering the history here that is not a certainty. Additionally, her article could use some serious work, especially if she is to be a head of state. It's practically a stub! BSMRD (talk) 09:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb Main opponent has conceded, vote share continues to increase, even AP is reporting her as having won. The article is sparse, but good enough IMO. No tags that need attention. Support alt blurb, first female president is notable. Potentially add leftist? It seems most media include her political leaning in their headlines. BSMRD (talk) 04:56, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait I don't see any sources saying Castro has been elected, even if he won the most votes. Also, how can we know a winner if only 50% of the votes are counted, that seems premature to call the election now? Also added a couple of cn tags which should be fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until final results are clear. The article needs improvement: cn tags, lack of prose in the preliminary results, missing at least the "Conduct" and "Aftermath" sections, and it would be great if the "Candidates" section would explain at least a little bit about the proposals of each one. And maybe talk a little more about the candidates to the National Congress and to the mayoralties, at least to the one in Tegucigalpa. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 10:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now and wait, way too early to call. Only 50% votes counted and both candidates have claimed victory. In the last election, Orlando caught up in the end to win (opposition was leading in the beginning). Oppose on the ground that we only nominate after a winner has been declared by the electoral comission. BastianMAT (talk) 10:34, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we don't wait the winner to be declared by the electoral commission. The most notorious case was the last US election. As soon as RS declares a candidate the winner we can publish it. Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 19:14, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Multiple RS reporting victory. Margin of win is significant. Maybe the blurb should state elected as first female president of Honduras. 99.247.176.90 (talk) 14:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Apparently Asfura's National Party reportedly conceded defeat on 30 November 2021, meaning its almost certain that Castro will win. I'm not entirely sure if this is enough to regard her as "elected" but its probably important to acknowledge. Ornithoptera (talk) 01:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - For the first altblurb, preferably - but either way, RS have declared and the primary opponent conceded. Canadianerk (talk) 12:09, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – It's done. (BBC Wednesday a.m.: "Xiomara Castro: Honduras votes in first female president") Favor Alt1. – Sca (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now the result has been decided according to reliable sources now (even if all the votes are not yet counted, the opposition has conceded). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ... pending expansion of 240-word article, a stub. (BBC Wednesday a.m.: "Xiomara Castro: Honduras votes in first female president") Favor Alt1. – Sca (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The altblurb reads better and adds a bit more context (first female president). BeŻet (talk) 17:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support I still think the article is too basic to be included in Main Page. Maybe with what is already there is enough for the rest of the users. Anyway I will support the altblurb, it should be noted that she is the first woman to achieve the presidency of the republic. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Virgil Abloh

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Virgil Abloh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American fashion designer Virgil Abloh dies at age 41. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ American fashion designer Virgil Abloh, best known for his work with Louis Vuitton and Off-White, dies at age 41.
News source(s): LVMH
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Leading figure in fashion, received numerous awards and accolades, notably "the first American of African descent to be artistic director at a French luxury fashion house" and "named by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2018". Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 18:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Norodom Ranariddh

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Norodom Ranariddh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Cambodian prince and former Prime Minister Norodom Ranariddh (pictured) dies age 77. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former Prime Minister of Cambodia Prince Norodom Ranariddh (pictured) dies age 77.
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cambodian prince and politician. Scaramouche33 (talk) 14:50, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Frank Williams

[edit]
Article: Frank Williams (Formula One) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founder and long-time manager of one of the most successful Formula One teams/constructors. Not sure who to list as update given how many IPs and users jumped on this. 5225C (talk • contributions) 14:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phil Saviano

[edit]
Article: Phil Saviano (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP, NYT, WaPo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the first Catholic Church sex abuse whistleblowers. Levivich 06:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

[edit]
November 27, 2021 (2021-11-27) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

(Posted) RD: Lubomyra Mandziy

[edit]
Article: Lubomyra Mandziy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ukrayinska Pravda
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ukrainian educator and civil servant. TJMSmith (talk) 01:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Almudena Grandes

[edit]
Article: Almudena Grandes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Barron's
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the greatest Spanish writers. I have fixed the article, but a few tweaks are needed. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Japan Series

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2021 Japan Series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In baseball, the Tokyo Yakult Swallows defeat the Orix Buffaloes to win the Japan Series. (MVP Yuhei Nakamura pictured) (Post)
News source(s): The Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 16:46, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 26

[edit]
November 26, 2021 (2021-11-26) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Marilyn McLeod

[edit]
Article: Marilyn McLeod (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Soul Tracks
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American singer-songwriter. Death announced on 11/26/2021. Lede needs to be expanded. TJMSmith (talk) 01:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Article is no longer a stub, however it still quite small. I also assume that the exact date of birth and death can be determined after some searching, because there are bound to be some obituaries.KittenKlub (talk) 09:47, 28 November 2021 (UTC) Support It's now basic, but good enough. KittenKlub (talk) 22:05, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle An important figure in Motown. I don't know whether the article is ready or not. -TenorTwelve (talk) 20:53, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: With only 1287 characters (220 words) of readable prose, this is a stub and not eligible for RD. As an "important figure in Motown", there should be more materials to include in this wikibio. Please expand the article. The {Lead too short} tag also needs to be addressed before this RD nom can proceed. --PFHLai (talk) 21:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted It's now much longer at 2399 characters (405 words) and referencing seems okay. --PFHLai (talk) 11:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ukrainian coup d'état plot

[edit]
WP:SNOW. No chance. A non-event.
– Sca (talk) 13:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(non-admin closure)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021 Ukrainian coup d'état plot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announced thwarting a coup d'état plot backed by Russia (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announces that an alleged coup d'état by Russia has been thwarted.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announces that an alleged coup d'état has been thwarted.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
 NoonIcarus (talk) 23:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - for a start, it's a bit one sided claim so far that the coup plot actually existed, but regardless I'll say the fact that they were caught before anything happen makes it not notable enough for ITN. Sucessful coup definitely. Troops or whatever actually made the move but was beaten back by loyal security forces probably. Arrested before anything happened not so much. -- KTC (talk) 00:27, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think it was thwarted as much as exposed. Basically, Zelensky alleged that there will be a coup on December 1 involving the opposition. So let's just wait till then.Scaramouche33 (talk) 06:13, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, also added 2 more neutral blurbs Article's in a decent shape 5.44.170.26 (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, one-paragraph stub with WP:NOTNEWS problems, not major international news, and most importantly there hasn't been an actual coup yet. Sandstein 12:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted blurb) RD/Blurb: Stephen Sondheim

[edit]
Article: Stephen Sondheim (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American musical theatre composer Stephen Sondheim dies at the age of 91. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, The Guardian, Express
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: American composer and lyricist dies at age 91. Wrote the music and/or lyrics for many well-known Broadway shows. Article needs more refs. Davey2116 (talk) 22:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As with Colin Powell: d. 18 Oct, only 20 Oct name in RD. -DePiep (talk) 21:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Because there are multiple paragraphs that lack a single reference. Stephen 22:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:ITN/C § intro says:
"A blurb needs ... target article ... check the quality of that article ... updated, ... reliable sources demonstrate the significance...": about quality for blurb article then. Then it says:
"RD line ... can include any living thing whose death was recently announced".
iow: no restriction by article quality for RD inclusion. Personally I find it reasonable that an article that was obviously BLP-conformant and that has an RS death announdement, can be linked to from RD. Anyway, an omittance, just as with Colin Powell (who was added to RD without blurp-quality articele— 2 days later b/c of similar blurb discussion). -DePiep (talk) 05:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We don’t post sub-standard biographies as a blurb or to recent deaths. Stephen 05:24, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Is what I am questioning. So far, only the blurb is explicitly mentioned for such a requirement. Also, I cannot find the reasoning that forces us to have such an omission on MP. -DePiep (talk) 05:32, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For any section on the Main Page (which includes ITN), any featured article is expected to demonstrate the quality with which WP editors can write. We don't expect FA quality for ITN featured items, but an article on an RD better be up to BLP specifications as a minimum standard, and that means large swathes of text missing sourcing is not a demonstration of our best work. --Masem (t) 05:37, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITNRD point 4 says "Of sufficient quality to be posted on the main page, as determined by a consensus of commenters." The linked section on article quality says, in part, "Articles should be well referenced; one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article, but any contentious statements must have a source, and having entire sections without any sources is unacceptable." Thryduulf (talk) 14:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There are still at least eight paragraphs without a single reference, and many more with content that isn’t sourced by refs present. So, not by a long shot. Kingsif (talk) 21:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Would you care to add appropriate cn tags, or even add a reference or two? Or perhaps you could improve "the tone"? Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant

[edit]
No consensus to post at this point. --Tone 18:35, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant is labeled a variant of concern by the World Health Organization. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Travel between several southern African states and others worldwide halts for concern over the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant.
News source(s): The New York Times, AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Major development in the course of the pandemic. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 19:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the article is written in British English, so why is the blurb being proposed with American spelling? Labeled is labelled in British English, which would be consistent with the article. This isn't American Wikipedia, no matter how much Americans want to whitewash the rest of the world. Joseph2302 (talk) 01:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll stop complaining when ITN stops getting spammed with Americanism. [7] shows my point on spellings. And we get way to many spurious, non notable ITN nominations about American stuff, compared to very little from other countries. Joseph2302 (talk) 03:07, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There'll be L to pay over this ridiculous rhubarb. – Sca (talk) 14:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- this is getting attention that even the Delta variant did not get. It's the top headline worldwide (although, it is a slow news period since it's Thanksgiving/Black Friday weekend). -- RockstoneSend me a message! 01:48, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    For about eight billion people worldwide, there'll be no figgy turkey and cheap electronics this weekend. Just headlines, everywhere, slowly repeating "Omicron". Omicron. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The existing ongoing doesn't provide anywhere near sufficient coverage in my opinion, with ctrl+f only finding the name of this variant used once. I second BabbaQ, the situation is escalating, significant, and merits separate coverage. Canadianerk (talk) 01:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing; all we know is we don't know much yet, and like general COVID, learning more could take years. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support several countries have already taken action in response to this variant. It is clearly highly newsworthy. Banedon (talk) 05:40, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just as a possible alternative for the blurb, as there's nothing else on the Ongoing line presently, but this is a significant aspect to COVID we could add a parenthetical link to the Omicron variant page in Ongoing, assuming that that target is of quality. --Masem (t) 06:02, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Altblurbed If anyone knows how many those "several" are in real numbers, feel free to fill me in. I still oppose both blurbs. Just think this one is less routine advisory, more headline. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This new variant has a large probability of becoming a new pandemic, COVID-21 that will exist parallel to COVID-19. So, we're then back to square one. If we then repeat the same mistake of not containing COVID-21 using strict lockdowns like the Chinese did in Wuhan, we'll end up with the same outcome a few years later: COVID-23 and back to square one yet again. Count Iblis (talk) 06:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    None of that somewhat alarming and rather sound advice is in the blurbs or target article, though...yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:CRYSTAL. Jehochman Talk 13:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN isn't a forum for probabilities of any size, however many alarums may divert us from editorial probity. – Sca (talk) 14:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Now this is definately IN THE NEWS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.44.170.26 (talk) 08:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is a WP:MEDRS matter and so unsuitable for ITN which posts uncited blurbs on a highly visible but protected page. The news is quite tentative and based on a press-release rather than solid science. The WHO statements are not consistent – that the variant is concerning but that measures such as travel bans should not be used and that we should use the alphabet to avoid stigma but not follow its order to avoid Xi. It appears that the variant will not be well understood for at least two weeks and so we will have to wait for reliable information. See also mu. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Variant of concern is a formal designation, and we have posted medical news plenty of times before (e.g. when COVID-19 was declared a pandemic; I'll save folks the embarrassment of digging up who opposed that one) in addition to medical TFA blurbs, so I don't think your argument that we should avoid anything MEDRS on the main page has precedent. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add to ongoing where COVID-19 is already listed. Yes places have suspended flights, but they've been doing this on and off for almost 2 years now. And it's based more on the fact they don't know enough about this variant. ALT0 is dull and doesn't explain why this needs posting, when no other variant did. ALT1 is a knee-jerk reaction to countries not knowing enough about it, that will likely be recinded in a couple of weeks. And not sure the article meets WP:MEDRS either. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:09, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:27, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Very widely reported on Saturday, with suspected cases in The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. However, vaccine makers say tweaked Covid vaccines could be developed quickly against the Omnicron variant. [8] In the circumstances, it's too early to play Omnicron as a blurb. – Sca (talk) 13:16, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This new virus is actually mentioned all over the news. And confirmed cases is starting to be reported daily.BabbaQ (talk) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to me I've encountered the phrase "all over" all over the place lately. – Sca (talk) 15:16, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Skeptical because there is only suspicion at this point. Nothing is actually known other than that there's a new variant of concern. Unfortunately science does not lend itself to breaking news. Rather, it's a long slow progression. This can be covered in ongoing. We should not chase the latest COVID speculation, much of which eventually proves to be wrong. WHO has named 5 variants of concern, but only Alpha and Delta appear to have become dominant in their time. We do not know if Omicron will be another Delta, or if it will go the way of Gamma. How many times have we previously posted a WHO announcement about a variant of concern? If we didn't post the last five, why should we post this one? As for the alternative blurb, is the travel disruption between southern Africa and the rest of the world significant enough, or is it just more the same that's been happening here and there for the last 18 months (which would suggests this should be covered in ongoing). Jehochman Talk 13:37, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per TRM above. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because travel between many countries has been severely adversely affected. The news of the variant caused a huge fall in the oil price & stock markets on Fri. Jim Michael (talk) 15:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Even if it turns out to be fairly harmless it has already caused significant disruption, including the cancellation of a major WTO conference in Geneva, etc. Tlhslobus (talk) 20:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Jehochman above. Unfortunately the news here is not what's IN the news, but the fact that so many ill-informed people are getting stressed and excited about something they know so little about. HiLo48 (talk) 21:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not our role to judge whether the top headlines were chosen appropriately. And I'd argue that a new variant that could prolong the pandemic, potentially leading to millions of deaths and billions in economic losses, is absolutely a story that deserves to be getting the attention it has, even if we don't know everything yet. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Like it or not, Omicron is THE biggest story in the world right now and that will continue to be the case for a while. Even if it turns out that the variant is not vaccine resistant, the real world implications in terms of the response by many countries have been major, and there will be further discussions either way about what to do next, including likely implications for speeding up vaccine distribution to the developing countries. We should post items to ITN based on what's actually happening rather than on what we'd like people to think. Nsk92 (talk) 01:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    As I hinted at above, the news here is not so much the existence of this variant, but the fact that so many ill-informed people are getting stressed and excited about something they know so little about. HiLo48 (talk) 05:10, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, as we can read here: "The variant harbors a high number of mutations in regions of the spike protein that antibodies recognize, potentially dampening their potency. “Many mutations we know are problematic, but many more look like they are likely contributing to further evasion,” says Moore. There are even hints from computer modelling that B.1.1.529 could dodge immunity conferred by another component of the immune system called T cells, says Moore.....Moore says breakthrough infections have been reported in South Africa among people who have received any of the three kinds of vaccines in use there, from Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer–BioNTech and Oxford–AstraZeneca. Two quarantined travellers in Hong Kong who have tested positive for the variant were vaccinated with the Pfizer jab, according to news reports. One individual had travelled from South Africa; the other was infected during hotel quarantining." Count Iblis (talk) 09:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If omicron escapes immunity and spreads better than delta, then this will cause the number of omicron cases to explode but without it replacing the delta variant, because immunity against omicron does not lead to immunity against delta. So, we'll then have two parallel pandemics. Because Delta alone causes capacity problems at hospitals, omicron doesn't need to be worse than delta. If it spreads more rapidly than delta, then even with a smaller hospitalization rate you can still get a huge peak in hospitalizations. Even if it is so benign that such a peak is relatively small, this will still add to the hospitalized delta-variant patients, so even in that case it will be bad news. Count Iblis (talk) 15:59, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • A suggestion to those who support posting this: try reframing the blurb. The news here is not a science story, but it might be a social story about governments panicking (or grandstanding) after being burned before. Unfortunately the travel bans will solve nothing because this variant has already dispersed, and the variant doesn't care whether somebody is a citizen of one country or another. (The travel bans have exemptions allowing expatriates to return home.) If it's bad, it's going to trigger another wave. If it's not that bad, then this is much ado about nothing. We cannot know at this time which scenario will follow. Jehochman Talk 13:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is now an altblurb to that effect, but the problem is that there are a large number of small consequences, which arguably justify posting collectively but probably not individually (the current altblurb is mentioning what arguably looks like "just another travel ban, which happen all the time"), and it's seemingly hard to phrase an altblurb to say this acceptably. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Coverage about this variant is mostly speculation. Not everything is bad, for instance there are preliminary reports that this variant tends to produce less severe infections (like the other stuff, this is preliminary, it will take time to confirm or disprove). Many of the support votes are speculating, see WP:CRYSTAL. 2607:FEA8:E31F:FBC1:2D79:6E12:60A:10C4 (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Time to close? I'm a 'Support' but, if I have not miscounted, I make the current count 13 Supports to 11 Opposes (counting the Skeptical and Add to Ongoing as Opposes), so seemingly not much likelihood of a 2 to 1 Supermajority for posting, and closing may help editors focus their efforts on more productive work. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    An unsuccessful close would be yet another piece of evidence that In the News is utterly incapable of actually posting news. There is a slim majority supporting, but this is not a vote, and I think the opposes are largely uncompelling: they say it's just speculation, ignoring the fact that just the reaction to the speculation alone is notable enough to be the top headline worldwide. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more oppose, per Andrew, TRM. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2021 Solomon Islands unrest

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 03:00, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021 Solomon Islands unrest (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Australian Federal Police take control of the Solomon Islands capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Following a request from the Solomon Islands government, Australian Federal Police take control of the capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Following a request from the Solomon Islands government, Australian Federal Police and Defence Forces take control of the capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Amidst continued concern over unrest in the Solomon Islands, a coalition of at least 200 members of police and military forces from Australia, Fiji, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand have been deployed.
News source(s): Reuters, CNN, The Guardian
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The Solomon Islands capital has been taken over by Australian police. An ongoing section may also be acceptable. Scaramouche33 (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Spencer I rearranged some things in the article, and added the source you suggested. Also put Papua New Guinea in altblurb3. I hope it helps - I'm not familiar with Australian English so was hoping to leave it for someone else, but figured it was worth attempting - given the time left on the nomination. If you need more, I can put some time aside to dig into the events section, research etc - and properly expand it. Canadianerk (talk) 08:18, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Aron Atabek

[edit]
Article: Aron Atabek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eurasianet, Al Jazzera
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Kazakh poet, author, pan-Turkist, and a longest serving political prisoner ShadZ01 (talk) 05:26, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 25

[edit]
November 25, 2021 (2021-11-25) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Dieter B. Herrmann

[edit]
Article: Dieter B. Herrmann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Berliner Kurier
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German astronomer who made astronomy accessible to the public, running a major planetarium in Berlin and appearing on TV. Article created by LouisAlain in March, and referenced then by Grimes2, - not much work was left. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Listvyazhnaya mine disaster

[edit]
Article: Listvyazhnaya mine disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Over 50 people suffocate after coal dust catches fire in a coal mine in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 50 people are killed in a coal mine fire in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia.
Alternative blurb II: ​ At least 50 people are killed in a mining accident in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters, DW
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major disaster in Russia. Currently working on the article Scaramouche33 (talk) 10:53, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Oleksandr Omelchenko

[edit]
Article: Oleksandr Omelchenko (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Interfax
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Andrei (talk) 18:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New Prime Minister in Romania

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Nicolae Ciucă (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nicolae Ciucă (pictured) is elected by the Parliament as the new Prime Minister of Romania. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A new coalition government led by Nicolae Ciucă (pictured) as prime minister takes office in Romania, ending a nearly three months long political crisis.
News source(s): Politico RFERL
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: ITNR. He becomes head of government after (another) political crisis in the country and has already been sworn in. I'm working on his wikibio, but it is close to being ready. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Romania is a semi-presidential republic, with more limited presidential powers than in other countries with this system, so the PM assumes part of the “administer the executive of their respective state/government”. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi elected president of Interpol

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 00:07, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi is elected president of Interpol. (Post)
News source(s): The Independent, Euronews, BBC, France 24, AlJazeera, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Election of the president of the world's largest police organisation. Attracted attention due to the questionable human rights record of both the UAE and Al-Raisi. Quite a bit of in-depth coverage of both the election and the run-up to it in international media. 15 (talk) 14:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work The election is in the news as I heard a radio bulletin about it myself. But the article needs work as it's currently too much about the controversy with not enough about the man for a biography. For example, I find that he wrote Social & Security Impact of the Internet but the article says nothing about that. I wonder what it says about Wikipedia... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I thought about including the book you link, but it was published by a governmental security think tank, so I'm not sure about it's quality and DUEness. I can't say much more about the work, given that it is only held by Abu Dhabi University in print [10]. See my reply to Joseph for your first point below, which I hope can address your concerns. 15 (talk) 12:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    On second thought, I have added a sentence on it in the early career section. 15 (talk) 12:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality the article is way too focused on his controversies, to the point that it violates NPOV in my opinion. More needs adding on the rest of his career- he has worked since 1980, but the only thing mentioned in the first paragraph of the Career section is a controversy. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi Joseph2302, I have added some information on his pre-candidacy career, education and non-policing activities with this edit. Unfortunately, most sources (at least those that I can read) write almost exclusively about his candidacy, with information on other aspects of his life being mostly confined to official puff-pieces with dubious reliability (e.g., https://anr.ae/). 15 (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It seems that the quality of the article has been improved, and to my understanding it would not fit in ITNR, but being a major international organization it might. I don't know, tbh. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:44, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I'm not really seeing the major significance of this if I'm honest. Most of the heads of these international organisations are not particularly influential in their own right, and often the major policy comes from national governments.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:10, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. If Interpol was a global police agency with authority over us, this would be notable, but it isn't such a thing. They largely coordinate interactions between the police agencies of the world. It also doesn't seem like any major policy changes will be coming as a result of this. 331dot (talk) 14:13, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 24

[edit]
November 24, 2021 (2021-11-24) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Hermann Bausinger

[edit]
Article: Hermann Bausinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cultural scientist in Tübingen, heading an institute for more than three decades. He had no article in English so far. Sorry for being late, - I was on a short vacation, and two others came first (on the Main page now). Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:41, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mārtiņš Brauns

[edit]
Article: Mārtiņš Brauns (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): slippedisc.com, eng.lsm.lv
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Andrei (talk) 18:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Murder of Ahmaud Arbery verdict

[edit]
It is unlikely we will reach a consensus to post here. Closing. --Tone 10:44, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Murder of Ahmaud Arbery (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ All three men, George McMichael, Travis McMichael, and William Bryan Jr., are found guilty in the Murder of Ahmaud Arbery (Post)
News source(s): CNN, The New York Times BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Ending to a major court case related to racial issues in the US. Andise1 (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Is it really necessary to discuss such a case again? I refer to here. Yet another case with zero international impact and interest, yet another case of a purely local trial. Far from being akin to the conviction for the murder of George Floyd. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alsoriano97 If "international impact" was required for postings, very little would be posted. 331dot (talk) 20:47, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but it should be much more decisive when it comes to court rulings than in other cases (sports, science, elections...). If the follow-up of a trial has a very low international coverage/interest, will you tell me that it's not an important requirement to take into account when determining whether a court case is blurb-worthy or not? So many people are condemned every day in this world... _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, we aren't talking about someone convicted of robbing the corner store, but a black man who was murdered basically for being in the wrong neighborhood in a part of the United States where convictions for this sort of thing are rare. And as I said, this incident has influenced changes in laws. 331dot (talk) 21:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, laws of a single U.S. state (as far as I know). If it were at the federal level I might come to support it, but not at this one. And many are the events that trigger legislative changes. And without a doubt, the article is in excellent shape. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Article is also of decent quality from what I can see. 331dot (talk) 20:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's already had long term significance, both legally and perhaps socially. This was not a garden variety murder. I don't understand this line of thinking more generally. If this event is not notable due to not having "long term significance", it should be proposed for deletion. 331dot (talk) 22:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all, there does exist a middle ground between ITN and AFD. This is a prime example. It's the result of a clear-cut murder case which the perps videoed themselves. A no-brainer. What would have been newsworthy would have been this ending in a non-guilty verdict and the no-doubt ensuing riots. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:34, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They taped it because they were in their mind attempting to make a citizens arrest(which was banned after this incident) even though they had no evidence of a crime. And in Georgia and elsewhere this is, rightly or wrongly, not clear cut. Even 15 years ago these men might have got off. And there was doubt Derek Chauvin would be convicted for killing George Floyd even though that was on video. 331dot (talk) 22:45, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's nuanced and emotive but ultimately it's just another crime story. It's been whipped up with publicity and is precisely the reason that we need to apply some common sense to these kinds of nominations. It is of minimal long term significance. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:49, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If this crime had occurred in the 1960s or earlier with the same verdict, I'd support posting due to its obvious significance. But it's not 1961. It's 2021 and in this day and age racial lynchings, when they happen, typically end up with long jail sentences. The man was murdered. His killers were tried and convicted in open court. Where's the long term significance? Again, this is not 1961 where there would have been a great deal of shock at this outcome. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then it should be proposed for deletion. I am going to now withdraw from this discussion as I am finding it frustrating that we are drifting away from our mission here. This is on me and me alone, no one else. 331dot (talk) 23:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is any question that this passes WP:EVENT and GNG. But ITN has traditionally had higher standards for posting events. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:31, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly right. There is a middle ground between AFD and ITN, and this article falls squarely in there. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:54, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in good shape, well referenced, and story is currently being adequately covered by reliable sources. Meets all requirements. --Jayron32 22:38, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Similar to the Rittenhouse verdict - limited notability, outcome that isn't nationally or globally significant in any game-changing or important way. Prism55 (talk) 23:21, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This wasn't a case with the same scope as the George Floyd killing , it had no ties to terrorism and did not create any major unrest from the original event (nor the verdict), and outside of the event, none of these people are notable. This is the type of thing we absolutely should NOT be posting to ITN. --Masem (t) 23:51, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I vehemently disagree with the idea that there must be global protests and riots in order to post a highly notable criminal conviction. We are supposed to follow the news at least somewhat and we have a great article to feature. 331dot (talk) 23:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a notable criminal conviction - all parties involved are BLP1E. It's a highly-covered story, but given the bias our sources have towards US-based stories, this is not a surprise. And no, we're not supposed to follow the news - we aren't a news ticker. That's what the Current Events page is for. --Masem (t) 23:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this kind of case is fairly common in the US. The focus tends to be on race, not on the facts of the case or the law. If the focus were on the last, then perhaps the law might change in which case there is a long-term impact; since it isn't, if we post this we might as well put "bias in the United States legal system" or some similar article into ongoing. Banedon (talk) 02:18, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The law did change in Georgia in response Arbery's murder. The Georgia legislature repealed their statute allowing for citizen's arrest. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. It's still only one state though. I would prefer to see something at country level. Banedon (talk) 03:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Every Black Lives Matter adjacent case isn’t news for the In The News section, unless we come to a consensus that Black Lives Matter should be given special consideration for the section. Trillfendi (talk) 04:40, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) English Channel disaster

[edit]
Article: November 2021 English Channel disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 27 people die whilst crossing the English Channel (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 27 people die whilst crossing the English Channel, in the channel's worst disaster in modern times.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 27 people die when their dinghy capsizes in the English Channel.
Alternative blurb III: ​ At least 27 people die when their dinghy capsizes in the English Channel.
News source(s): Telegraph, AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Article needs work but clearly a serious incident which should be posted once the page is ready Llewee (talk) 18:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dost thou say 'whilst' in conversation? – Sca (talk) 13:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes, yes. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:33, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Was asking Amakuru. – Sca (talk) 13:41, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well perhaps next time start chatting on his talk page. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't "chatting," I was asking a question relevant to ENGVAR usage.
(Kindly desist from tutelage, however well meant. Thank you ever so much, TRM.) – Sca (talk) 19:00, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I responded knowing the ENGVAR used by Amakuru would allow "whilst". And in any case, you asked "whilst" in general in your opening post. Good grief. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:TLW – Sca (talk) 19:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
almost. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not quite. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Since it seems my answer is required here, I'm pretty sure I do sometimes say "whilst" in conversation. There are times when it scans better in the sentence than "while".  — Amakuru (talk) 22:19, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I only use that word whilst trying to educate lesser breeds without the law. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Forget Stadler and Waldorf, bring in the dwarves. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

(Removed) Ongoing removal: 2021 Belarus–European Union border crisis

[edit]
Article: 2021 Belarus–European Union border crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: The article has not has any significant updates for a week, and thus fails the ongoing criteria: In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. If there have been significant updates in the last week, these should be added, but right now, this article fails the ongoing criteria. In particular, the last significant update is older than the day of the oldest ITN event (21 November), which is a general rule for something not being updated enough for Ongoing. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Clearly you're ignoring the bit of ongoing that says In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. The article is not being updated, which is why it was removed. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just letting the users know. Część. – Sca (talk) 15:09, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lukashenko went to border on 11/26. [15] [16] – Sca (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please add to the article rather than here in ITN/C. --65.94.214.139 (talk) 13:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
MYOB – Sca (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Magdalena Andersson

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Magdalena Andersson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected by the Riksdag as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Following the resignation of Stefan Löfven, Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected by the Riksdag as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITNR, as it falls under "Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government, in those countries which qualify under the criteria above, as listed at List of current heads of state and government except when that change was already posted as part of a general election". First female prime minister of Sweden. BastianMAT (talk) 09:59, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment she takes office on the 26th (according to her article). Until that point, the blurb isn't correct, as she only becomes the first female PM of Sweden on that date. Is it usual to post when it's announced, or when they take office? Joseph2302 (talk) 10:04, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Usually when they are elected but yeah with the blurb of being elected. BastianMAT (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. BastianMAT (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Since Sweden's in the EU, perhaps she'll become the next Merkel. – Sca (talk) 15:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then again, maybe not. – Sca (talk) 20:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update by the nominator Things are looking bad for her and her party now. The Center Party (liberal) voted for the opposition’s budget and it got through. The Center party did not agree with the goverment’s budget, stating it was way too left. That would mean Magdallena now has to rule with right wing economic politics, which she accepted. However their junior party the Green party did not accept it and have left the goverment meaning a new Riksdag election for the prime minister post shall be held. Interesting development. SVT BastianMAT (talk) 16:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update 2 by nominator Magdallena Andersson has officially resigned. We might have to pull the news back as she won’t be assuming office. She will only assume office if she wins a new prime minister vote, which might take place in a few days/weeks, depending on how the talks with the speaker goes. SVT BastianMAT (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART)

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Double Asteroid Redirection Test (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NASA launches DART – the first attempt to change the course of an asteroid (pictured) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Double Asteroid Redirection Test spacecraft is launched on a mission to the asteroid Didymos and its moon Dimorphos (artist's impression pictured)
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Double Asteroid Redirection Test spacecraft is launched on a mission to attempt to deflect the course of the asteroid Dimorphos (artist's impression pictured)
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: There's going to be a follow-up launching in 2024 and arriving in 2027 so it's quite a long-term plan. But it's in the news now. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Such missions usually have multiple stages and each stage has separate rocket engines. The first stage is usually more spectacular but there's no scientific reason to prefer it. For deep space missions lasting years, the efficiency of the final spacecraft will be most important and this is a new design. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Impactfulness nonapparent at this pt. in time & space. – Sca (talk) 15:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot to mention Taylor Swift. – Sca (talk) 15:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: You mean Liv Tyler :) Brandmeistertalk 20:05, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Guess I spaced her out. – Sca (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

[edit]
November 23, 2021 (2021-11-23) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: James Fitz-Allen Mitchell

[edit]
Article: James Fitz-Allen Mitchell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): News784, The St. Kitts & Nevis Observer, Loop News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Prime Minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1984-2000). Joofjoof (talk) 10:50, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Omar Malavé

[edit]
Article: Omar Malavé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Nacional, Efecto Cocuyo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Venezuelan professional baseball player, coach and manager. NoonIcarus (talk) 22:37, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bill Virdon

[edit]
Article: Bill Virdon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MLB.com
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: GA article – Muboshgu (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bulgaria bus crash

[edit]
Article: 2021 Bulgaria bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 46 people are killed in a bus crash in Bosnek, Bulgaria. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 46 people are killed on the way from Istanbul to Skopje after a bus crashes and catches fire near Bosnek, Bulgaria.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, dpa
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Needs expansion The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not opposing it. – Sca (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would think that you've been around ITN long enough to know "please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive."--WaltCip-(talk) 20:38, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's also untrue - it also substantially affects North Macedonia. Jim Michael (talk) 20:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD/Blurb: Chun Doo-hwan

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Chun Doo-hwan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of South Korea Chun Doo-hwan (pictured) dies at the age of 90. (Post)
News source(s): AP, Reuters, NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Comoelto  (talk) 04:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

[edit]
November 22, 2021 (2021-11-22) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Volker Lechtenbrink

[edit]
Article: Volker Lechtenbrink (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ + many others
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German actor with a unique voice, used for dubbing and country rock songs, also stage director and theatre and festival manager, remembered for his role in Die Brücke (film) at age 14 (or 15). Article was there but substantially expanded and sourced. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Babette Smith

[edit]
Article: Babette Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Australian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian colonial historian, mediator and business executive. TJMSmith (talk) 18:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Doug Jones (baseball)

[edit]
Article: Doug Jones (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 23:07, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Hilda Múdra

[edit]
Article: Hilda Múdra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): News Agency of the Slovak Republic
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Austrian-born Slovak figure skating coach. TJMSmith (talk) 18:32, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak support it's just about longer than a stub. Everything is well sourced (AGF on non-English language sources), would be good to add a little more content if available, though I imagine that may be difficult if sources are all in Slovakian. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:05, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article lacks 3 complete well-rounded paragraphs for minimum content; one of the paragraphs is 3 sentences and another has 2. Could use a couple additional sentences in Career section for depth but close. SpencerT•C 22:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2021 Waukesha Christmas parade car rampage

[edit]
Discussion is longer the article, time to close. No consensus to post. --Tone 09:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021 Waukesha Christmas parade car rampage (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Five people are killed and at least forty are injured in an apparent vehicle-ramming incident during a Christmas parade in Waukesha, Wisconsin (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A Christmas parade car rampage in Waukesha, Wisconsin leaves five people dead and at least forty injured.
News source(s): CNN, AP, BBC, Guardian, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Credits:
 Thriley (talk) 03:03, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! – Sca (talk) 13:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's no need to laugh. You, Sca, among all people, are fully aware of my incompetence. --Jayron32 13:50, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
By executive fiat. – Sca (talk) 15:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well most of the support votes are from Americans (of those who have userpages), and almost all of the opposes are from non-Americans. So I guess it'll be a coin toss on whether an American or non-American admin decides... Joseph2302 (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How about one from a neutral country, say Liechtenstein? – Sca (talk) 16:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I voted to oppose as an American ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you must be from Manchester, N.H., then. – Sca (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This at first got attention because it might have been terrorism related, no problem there. But all we are left with now is an accident which leaves 5 death: while tragic, this is sadly an everyday occurrence. We have e.g. this week a ferry accident in Sri Lanka (at least 6 death)[18], 7 death in Greece when migrants flee the police[19], 22 deaths on Lake Kivu[20], nine deaths in a fire in Bulgaria[21], 10 deaths in China after a car crash[22], ... I see no reason to post this, as it is not exceptional, has no lasting importance, and isn't even very interesting (without the terrorism angle). It's a sad tragedy, but a very common one. Fram (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it is WP:TOOSOON to make a determination as to whether this was an act of terror or not. Terrorism or not, the ramming appears to be deliberate, and it has made national and international headlines. Aasim (talk) 06:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Per Fram, tragic, but not significant enough at a global scale: we don't even have articles about many similar tragedies elsewhere. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:45, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Sad but ephemeral. Ericoides (talk) 07:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Pulled) 2021 Bulgarian general election (presidential second round)

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2021 Bulgarian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Bulgaria, Rumen Radev (pictured) is re-elected President of Bulgaria. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Rumen Radev (pictured) is re-elected President of Bulgaria.
News source(s): Reuters, Aljazzera, Politico
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Second round of the presidental election, ITNR (being part of the general elections), Radev has been declared winner with a landslide. BastianMAT (talk) 01:05, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, heads of state elections are posted even if they are ceremonial/wield little power, it mostly depends on the article quality itself which should be more than sufficient. Two examples are the Italian presidental election and Czech presidental election, both having similar powers to the Bulgarian one. [23] [24] BastianMAT (talk) 09:02, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I thought going by older posts that head of state elections are still part of ITNR but if its been removed, no problem and thanks for the headsup for future nominations. BastianMAT (talk) 12:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I just saw this now. I must have missed the change or forgot about it. So my comment on other presidents is not relevant here. --Tone 17:49, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, that’s what got me confused to when I ITNR nominated this. In the past as you and I mentioned, similar head of state elections (with similar powers) such as Moldova(November 2020), Germany, Austria, Italy, Czech Republic have been posted. 331dot said the removal of ceremonial head of state elections from ITNR were ’recently’ done, so the change must have not been too long ago for us to not know that.BastianMAT (talk) 18:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • PFHLai there wasn't consensus to do this update- the presidential election is not ITNR, and there was not consensus here that it's important enough for ITN. We should leave it where it is, so it can roll off soon, instead of moving it up so it'll stay on ITN for another week... Joseph2302 (talk) 13:27, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose while there are some states with significant power invested in the secondary office, this is not one of them. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't particularly mind about the unilateral action myself - it was made in good faith - and my oppose is purely on the merits of the case, for much the same reasons as you. I suggest we move on from this.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:45, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

[edit]
November 21, 2021 (2021-11-21) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Gurmeet Bawa

[edit]
Article: Gurmeet Bawa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian folks singer. Article can do with some minor expansion, but, is almost there. Edits and basic content expansion done. Meets hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 02:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Sudan political agreement

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Abdalla Hamdok (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Abdalla Hamdok (pictured) is reinstated as Prime Minister of Sudan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the aftermath of October 2021 Sudanese coup d'état, a political agreement is reached reinstating Abdalla Hamdok (pictured) as Prime Minister of Sudan.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Abdalla Hamdok (pictured) is reinstated as Prime Minister of Sudan as part of a political agreement.
News source(s): Aljazzera, Reuters NYTimes DW News AP News
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITNR, as it falls under "Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government, in those countries which qualify under the criteria above, as listed at List of current heads of state and government except when that change was already posted as part of a general election". Feel free to add another blurb if there is any better way to announce the reinstation. BastianMAT (talk) 14:05, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's a major omission to not include it. Jim Michael (talk) 16:08, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I updated altblurb 1. Hope that works.BastianMAT (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 World Rally Championship

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2021 World Rally Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In rallying, Sébastien Ogier and Julien Ingrassia win the 2021 World Rally Championship, while Toyota secure the manufacturers' title. (Post)
News source(s): WRC.com, Autosport
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Congrats on their 8th world titles; will update asap. Unnamelessness (talk) 12:30, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

[edit]
November 20, 2021 (2021-11-20) (Saturday)

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: David Longdon

[edit]
Article: David Longdon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.loudersound.com/news/big-big-train-singer-david-longdon-dead-at-56
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Multi-instrumentalist and singer of British progressive rock band Big Big Train Pretty low key name, so article is pretty short. Floydian τ ¢ 16:59, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 19

[edit]
November 19, 2021 (2021-11-19) (Friday)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Cedric Robinson (guide)

[edit]
Article: Cedric Robinson (guide) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian (UK)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British guide. Found this article in good shape. RIP. Ktin (talk) 02:42, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Disappearance of Peng Shuai

[edit]
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 19:59, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Peng Shuai (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Chinese tennis player Peng Shuai disappears after accusing a former Chinese Vice Premier of sexual assault. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Chinese tennis player Peng Shuai is reported missing after accusing former Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli of sexual assault.
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Seems to be a forced disappearance. This is a bit unusual, but has been a major news story. Disappearance section seems solid but the rest of the article on her career is less well sourced. The person has disappeared without a trace, so while it cannot be verified that this person person has died or been imprisoned, her disappearance is in itself the notable event. I wonder if this could be treated as something like the equivalent of a recent death. Blythwood (talk) 22:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Completely agree it's an awkward thing to summarise in a way that fits BLP while keeping it clear why the event is notable, I'd welcome suggestions for alternative phrasing. I realise this is a fairly limited action, but for that reason I deliberately didn't link to the person she accused in the proposed blurb. Blythwood (talk) 01:57, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per LaserLegs, there's something wrong about posting speculation that someone disappeared straight after they made accusations. With little reliable information, this seems like a BLP issue to post it. Joseph2302 (talk) 01:47, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Far too speculative, with overtones of anti-China sentiment, and with too many unknowns. Needs far more clarification before it is posted. And a guarantee that ITN will publish a full We Were Wrong! statement and retraction on the Main page when it is found out she has just eloped with her boyfriend or girlfriend, as the case may be. HiLo48 (talk) 01:55, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Clearly if China "disappeared" her, that would be a story, but this appears to be Western nations making a demand of China and there's no hard evidence she has been killed or imprisoned or the like. We don't post this type of speculative stories. --Masem (t) 02:16, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per wide coverage in RSes. Normchou 💬 03:22, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless the incident has a separate article. Sun8908 Talk 07:38, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — article looks decent enough for ITN standards by my eye, wide coverage in RSes. If the choice of "disappears" is undesirable, then "is reported missing" might be a potential alternative (posted as altblurb). [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 08:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that suggests she was reported missing in the police report sense, not that Novak Djokovic described her as "a missing person" to reporters. Not a bad idea. Just a bit ambiguous. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support, in the news, top page news in many countries. The issue is she has suddenly disappeared after accusing a senior cabinet minister of a serious crime, and the involved parties are public figures indept of this incident, so there is nothing wrong as long as it is sourced and not stated as truth. Peng's disappearance and the resulting sports diplomacy pressure and boycott threats are sufficient Bumbubookworm (talk) 12:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Have you ever studied the difference between correlation and causation? HiLo48 (talk) 21:48, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I have and I wonder if it's possible to have a maths competition over Wikipedia lol. I never said there was a causation, although I am sure many on Wikipedia have noted your hard-left POV eg trying to get all right of centre Australian newspapers struck off at RSN. Bumbubookworm (talk) 22:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Applause. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:33, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Kyle Rittenhouse verdict

[edit]
3-9, consensus will not develop to post at this time. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 21:27, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Kenosha unrest shooting (talk · history · tag) and Shooting of Jacob Blake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After shooting three people and killing two amidst protests surrounding the Shooting of Jacob Blake, Kyle Rittenhouse is found not guilty on all charges. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Ending to a major news story/court case. Andise1 (talk) 18:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well my direct opinion is that it is not notable. My reasoning is the discussion that already took place on the 2021 talk page. I also have previous discussions months ago where things highly notable to one country aren’t included. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:11, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is not a discussion of the page 2021. The criteria established for other parts of Wikipedia don't apply here. If you wish to change the criteria used for the ITN box, then start a discussion at WT:ITN. Votes without valid rationales are given little weight. It's fine if you have a useful rationale, but merely "I don't think it's notable enough" does not provide any useful guidance to admins when deciding consensus. I mean, you're allowed to say any silly thing you want, I suppose, but you can't expect anyone to take you seriously if it isn't valid. --Jayron32 19:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well since you don’t like my reasoning, just let me say “no”. People have supported ITN’s in the past without giving a reason, so my “Oppose” in this case will not have a reason. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:22, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, it's a free world. People do nonsensical things all of the time. --Jayron32 19:24, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I couldn’t agree more. In reality, my oppose on this comes more to combat American Wikipedia vs English Wikipedia. There is a essay on Wikipedia that I recently read that has that meaning. Not everything that happens in America is notable for Wikipedia/2021/ITN/Portal Current Events, etc….Elijahandskip (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (at least on news of just the verdict). It was a highly watched case in the U.S., but it was clear early on to many legal experts that are crying foul on judicial behavior. It is very very likely to see an appeal and so this is not the end. This is not like the result from the very public George Floyd protests (which we posted and had ongoing about those, and the verdict). That said, there had been concerns there may be rioting following an acquittal , and while I'm not seeing any immediate news on that, a major riot (akin to the LA riots after King's verdict) would likely be the newsworthy factor here. --Masem (t) 19:05, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    There literally cannot be any appeal of a not guilty verdict. This is a core principle of how double jeopardy is handled in American jurisprudence. A not guilty jury verdict is basically always final. See [25]. There are some exceedingly rare exceptions to this, but none of them would apply in this case. An ordinary jury verdict of "not guilty" like this one (even in a controversial trial) is treated as basically sacrosanct, and there can be no appeals by the government. --Jayron32 19:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Except for the calls for a mistrial that are being entered now. I know there's complexities with double jeopardy there, but that's still on the books and that itself can be a legal process. --Masem (t) 19:15, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Um, what? There were calls for a mistrial by Rittenhouse's defense team prior to the jury verdict coming back. Now that the verdict is in their client's favor, I doubt highly they will press forward with these requests. Indeed, articles such as this one note "The verdict also meant that Judge Bruce Schroeder did not have to rule on the defense's motions for a mistrial." --Jayron32 19:23, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as above. If we had to have an American court psychodrama today, the better option from a world-historical perspective would probably be the acquittal of the purported killers of Malcolm X. —Brigade Piron (talk) 19:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose AGF, but this is such a small story in the grand scheme. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:23, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. It is too early to tell what impact this will have. It could be a Rodney King-like result where acquittal of the accused leads to broad social unrest, or it could pass with a shrug. I expect that we will know within 24 hours. BD2412 T 19:30, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and close US-centric nomination, not important enough for ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:45, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and renominate once the riots get into full swing. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:49, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Far from blurb-worthy, lack of deep international coverage and interest. U.S-centric. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 19:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Very US centric. It's probably not even the most important news in the US right now, let alone the world. I agree with Piron above that the clearing of Malcom X's killers is more noteworthy in the grand scheme. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 20:32, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is the most important US news event ongoing right now. Every major US news outlet is covering the story and many have been broadcasting portions of the trial for the past several days.XavierGreen (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Edgardo Labella

[edit]
Article: Edgardo Labella (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cebu Daily News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Mayor of Cebu City. Article looks decent but could warrant some improvements ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 15:59, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2020–2021 Indian farmers' protest

[edit]
Article: 2020–2021 Indian farmers' protest (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India announces the repeal of 3 farm laws which led to mass protests. (Post)
News source(s): AP, WSJ
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This article was previously in ongoing, now has a noteworthy update which should bring it towards conclusion. - Indefensible (talk) 06:50, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • to international notability. It won’t be listed on 2021 per previous discussions of it not having international notability.
  • India-centric nomination, not important enough for ITN
  • and renominate once the riots get into full swing.
  • per above. Far from blurb-worthy, lack of deep international coverage and interest. India-centric
  • Very India centric. It's probably not even the most important news in India right now, let alone the world.
  • Actually not even sure this is going to be more than a couple days' news in India
"Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." 331dot (talk) 23:11, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's important to remember that 1/7 of the people on this planet are Indians. We don’t post a great deal of India related stories. 331dot (talk) 23:13, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Interestingly I didn't see the same PDM feedback from you above for another "country-centric" nomination from the worlds third most populous country. In fact, we do post many India-centric stories here, this one having festered in ongoing for nearly a year. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Invariably it is announcements that get more attention than the actual act, most of the time(we post elections when the result is known, not when the results are official/certified). If Modi renegs, that will likely be newsworthy itself. 331dot (talk) 23:16, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose - as Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI says, the BKU is still protesting. I would prefer waiting till the laws are actually repealed (and FWIW, these laws are being repealed just before the 2022 Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly elections and elections in some other states, which are crucial for Modi's political party). Tube·of·Light 02:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – On article quality – and as others have noted because the laws haven't taken effect. The article, at more than 10,000 words, is grossly overwritten, overblown and overweight – presumably by partisans who view the topic as a cause célèbre that calls for a crusade. – Sca (talk) 13:20, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) November 2021 lunar eclipse

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post this. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 21:10, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: November 2021 lunar eclipse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The longest partial lunar eclipse in 580 years occurs. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, NBC News, NYT
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: We don't usually post lunar eclipses but this one has gotten more RS coverage. Davey2116 (talk) 04:32, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – I didn't see it. – Sca (talk) 13:06, 19 November 2021 (UTC) ...  ;-)[reply]
Yeah. We always seem to post eclipses well after they conclude, with the snarky undertone of "and, ha ha ha, you missed it!". —Cryptic 13:12, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why THIS MUCH INDENT? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:53, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're forgetting that lunar eclipses often presage globally cataclysmic events, such as permanent cancellation of The Boat Race, which I fear may now be in the offing for 2022. – Sca (talk) 13:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, lunar eclipses and the Boat Race are entirely unrelated. And of course, there will be no "permanent cancellation of The Boat Race", that's total bollocks, but perhaps inline with your regular contributions. As you perhaps should know already, The Boat Race 2022 is scheduled for next year, and if COVID stymies it, one imagines it will simply be moved to the River Great Ouse once again. I'm unclear as to where you think that a lunar eclipse would be a portent for the permanent cancellation of an event which has been conducted since 1829, even before the Third Reich failed to play nicely. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:56, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ease up, Ramblo, it was a joke. (And BTW, the Third Reich and this topic are entirely unrelated.) – Sca (talk) 18:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, and this topic and the Boat Race are completely unrelated. And it wasn't funny in any sense. So explain yourself. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 18

[edit]
November 18, 2021 (2021-11-18) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Peter Buck (restaurateur)

[edit]
Article: Peter Buck (restaurateur) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Independent
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American nuclear physicist and co-founder of the Subway fast-food restaurant chain. --PFHLai (talk) 02:25, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jimmie Durham

[edit]
Article: Jimmie Durham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [26]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American sculptor, essayist and poet. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 17

[edit]
November 17, 2021 (2021-11-17) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Jay Last

[edit]
Article: Jay Last (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SF Gate, NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American physicist and silicon valley pioneer. Death announced on this date. Ktin (talk) 19:08, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Convicted assassins of Malcolm X exonerated

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 22:31, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Assassination of Malcolm X (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Manhattan District Attorney announces that two men convicted in the assassination of Malcolm X will be exonerated. (Post)
News source(s): Southall, Ashley; Bromwich, Jonah E. (17 November 2021). "2 Men Convicted of Killing Malcolm X Will Be Exonerated After 55 Years". New York Times. Retrieved 17 November 2021., Moghe, Sonia; Sanchez, Ray (November 17, 2021). "New York Times: Two men convicted of killing Malcolm X to be exonerated". CNN.
Credits:

Article updated
 BD2412 T 21:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Young Dolph

[edit]
Article: Young Dolph (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [27], The Guardian, CNN, The New York Times, Fox News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American rapper. Article appears to be in good shape. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 20:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) November 2021 Pacific Northwest floods

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 22:57, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: November 2021 Pacific Northwest floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A series of floods in British Columbia and Washington leaves at least five dead and thousands in B.C. without electricity. (Post)
News source(s): CBC News, CNN, CTV News, AP, BBC, Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/17/pacific-north-west-floods-storm-british-columbia-washington-state
Credits:
Nominator's comments: B.C. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure called the storm "unpresedented" Cyrobyte (talk) 19:30, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In China, of course. It's the trend these days. – Sca (talk) 23:19, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, just “affected” the fourth in North America. Not America. Not even in the world. Let's not overestimate it. Storms are storms, and it happen...a lot of things. International impact is very low. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 01:52, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 16

[edit]
November 16, 2021 (2021-11-16) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) Kosmos 1408

[edit]
Articles: Anti-satellite weapon (talk · history · tag) and Kosmos 1408 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russia shoots down Kosmos 1408 with an anti-satellite weapon creating dangerous space debris. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Russia shoots down Kosmos 1408 with an anti-satellite weapon, creating a field of space debris.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Kosmos 1408 is destroyed by a Russian anti-satellite weapon and turned into a stream of space debris.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters, Guardian, Bloomberg
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: We have some real news about the ISS now as the crew have to take shelter from a shower of debris created by a Russian missile test. And the Kessler syndrome advances another notch. What we're mainly missing is a good picture but we might use something generic like this. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle, as this is a significant event for the space industry (more so than Crew-3 that we already have on the template). However the article is pretty lightweight and could use some expansion. It also needs a source for the claim that Russia was responsible for the test - we can't claim something in the blurb that isn't cited in the article. I would also remove 'dangerous' from the blurb as that's quite a strong accusation. Modest Genius talk 13:05, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Article seems fine now, though as I was one of the users updating it an independent assessment would be welcome. Modest Genius talk 18:16, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on the merits; the use of an anti-satellite weapon(even as a test) is rare and few countries possess such technology. Russia isn't denying it. 331dot (talk) 13:10, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: Yes, the use is rare and few countries possess such technology. Yet, I remember a similar test from India a couple of years ago was rejected as the technology "has been around for a while." If I recall correctly, there had been significant debate about debris back then too. 2405:201:4013:8087:A828:E291:B9B5:4B09 (talk) 18:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I can only comment on the nomination in front of me; I can't speak to past ones at this time. 331dot (talk) 19:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I oppose merging those blurbs - these are separate events. Modest Genius talk 14:07, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I also oppose merging- they're separate events, and this one is more important, so shouldn't be stuck on the end of some less important and newswirthy article that's only on the front page because it was alledgedly ITNR (even though that ITNR criteria was demonstrated to be unfit for purpose). And if this does reach front page, then DYK would no longer be eligible, but until that point, don't see a need to withdraw the DYK nom. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:30, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We could remove the Crew-3 blurb and replace it with this one when this is ready to go (assuming Crew-3 is still on ITN). Yeah, it doesn't get its "full time" there, but I agree that it doesn't make sense to merge, but having two ISS-related things could be seen as overwhelming the box. --Masem (t) 14:35, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Even a fleck of paint could seriously damage the ISS, one of the most expensive objects ever constructed. 331dot (talk) 11:14, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: My question is, did Putin authorize this stupid 'test' – or was it just an act of heedless military apparatchiks down in the bureaucracy? (Russia is an oligarchy that has a country – a country that has an enormous military.) – Sca (talk) 14:19, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The way I'm reading it, the story is more that Russia has appeared to have violated a treaty related to space-bound weapons, in addition to this being a story of interest to space exploration (the potential of damage to the ISS that forced the crew to shelter for at least two orbits as it passed through the debris field). --Masem (t) 14:17, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Reasonable enough. However, the threat to human lives (including two Russians!) seems more compelling in terms of reader interest. – Sca (talk) 14:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From our article on the Outer Space Treaty: "Although it forbids establishing military bases, testing weapons and conducting military maneuvers on celestial bodies, the treaty does not expressly ban all military activities in space, nor the establishment of military space forces or the placement of conventional weapons in space". Testing an anti-satellite weapon on your own target is not against any treaty, just regarded as irresponsible. Note that the US, China and India have all conducted similar tests with no legal repercussions or UN censure. Modest Genius talk 15:09, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you didn't know (see anti-satellite weapon), the first ASAT test was in 1959, and was conducted by the US. Banedon (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The space junkies emerge triumphant. – Sca (talk) 18:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)  ;-)[reply]

November 15

[edit]
November 15, 2021 (2021-11-15) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Katarina Blagojević

[edit]
Article: Katarina Blagojević (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraf
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Serbian chess player. TJMSmith (talk) 00:06, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dzifa Attivor

[edit]
Article: Dzifa Attivor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ghanaweb
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ghanaian politician and businesswoman. TJMSmith (talk) 00:00, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Julio Lugo

[edit]
Article: Julio Lugo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Globe MLB.com ESPN.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Major League Baseball player. Article could be slightly improved. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 15:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Clarissa Eden

[edit]
Article: Clarissa Eden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British countess, memoirist, and centenarian. Still needs some citations. TJMSmith (talk) 01:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Bulgarian general election

[edit]
Article: 2021 Bulgarian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Bulgarian general election, We Continue the Change (co-leader Kiril Petkov pictured) wins the most seats. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ We Continue the Change wins the most seats in the Bulgarian general election.
News source(s): FT Euronews, Balkan Insight, Sofia Globe, Reuters, DW, Spiegel (In German)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Second election held yesterday, ITNR, being a general election. The election comission has announced that We Continue the Change has won most seats, so therefore such a nomination can now be made. As we have posted the winner in the previous elections, https://wiki.eso.workers.dev/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/July_2021#(Posted)_Bulgarian_parliamentary_election. They are a new party too, so surprising. I have added a result synopsis and started the aftermath. Good article, have spent a lot of time on it myself with a few others. BastianMAT (talk) 14:45, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Article has minimum of prose describing the leadup, results, and aftermath. More writing would be nice, but it's passable for the main page. Everything is referenced and it has prose, which is more than can be said for many of the nominations of this type. --Jayron32 12:01, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Argentinian Midterm Election

[edit]
Article: 2021 Argentine legislative election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Argentine legislative election, Juntos por el Cambio wins the most seats as Frente de Todos lose their majority in the Chamber of Deputies and Senate. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Argentine legislative election, Juntos por el Cambio wins the most seats as Frente de Todos lose their majority in the Chamber of Deputies and Senate for the first time since 1983.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In the Argentine legislative election, Juntos por el Cambio wins the most seats.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In the Argentine legislative election, Frente de Todos loses its majority in both chambers for the first time since 1983.
News source(s): Reuters AP News Express News Aljazzera Dw News BBC Yahoo
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: It is ITNR, big news as the opposition won the legislative elections/midterm elections and the ruling party have lost both majorities in the chamber of deputies and the senate for the first time since 1983. BastianMAT (talk) 14:45, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose As of now, there is no prose synopsis of the results of the main election. There is only a prose synopsis of the primaries. If that is fixed, this can be posted. --Jayron32 14:49, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From what I understand, in the US midterms all House seats+1/3 of Senate seats were up for election so that would be considered as "most members of an electoral body" but here it's only half. Does that still count as general elections? If so it's ITN/R, if not who knows. Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:14, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I agree, it is arguable for both sides. At least based on this, https://wiki.eso.workers.dev/wiki/Midterm_election, Argentina[1] (legislative and local election) falls under the heading General elections (which makes it ITNR) alongside the United States (legislative and local election) which was posted.BastianMAT (talk) 17:17, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure it is arguable here, it doesn't meet the definition in ITNR and it's a mid-term, not a general election by any normal definition (despite what "Wikipedia" might say). The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:30, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 14

[edit]
November 14, 2021 (2021-11-14) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: W. Sterling Cary

[edit]
Article: W. Sterling Cary (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recently created article. This is my first ITN nomination, sorry if I messed something up. DanCherek (talk) 06:15, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Liverpool Women's Hospital bombing

[edit]
trending oppose, unlikely to develop consensus to post at this point. --Jayron32 15:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Liverpool Women's Hospital bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A taxi carrying a bomber is blown up at Liverpool Women's Hospital, killing the perpetrator. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ An attempted terrorist bombing at Liverpool Women's Hospital in Liverpool, England, kills the perpetrator and injures another man.
Alternative blurb II: ​ An explosion, which killed the alleged bomber and injured another man at Liverpool Women's Hospital in Liverpool, England, is declared a terror incident.
News source(s): "Liverpool hospital taxi explosion: what we know so far". The Guardian. 15 November 2021. Retrieved 15 November 2021.
"Liverpool Women's Hospital explosion declared a terror incident". BBC News. 15 November 2021. Retrieved 15 November 2021.
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This is a current event and newsworthy. —AFreshStart (talk) 16:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Failed attack which caused one injury and killed the attacker. It's not clear what the target was or who it was supposed to terrorise. If this hadn't been declared a terrorist incident it would be minor local news. I encourage the existing DYK nom instead. Modest Genius talk 19:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, it just grants the police additional powers and generates more headlines. The actual event doesn't become any worse. Modest Genius talk 13:18, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your answer because clearly I've realized that I have not expressed myself well. I mean that at the time, the reason why I've opposed was the same used by other users (who have not participated in this debate, except Modest Genius) to not support the cited nomination in September. That is why I am frankly surprised. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • BLP Caution One suspect is dead, but four others are arrested in connection; might want to attribute this "attempted terrorist bombing" instead of stating it as a fact Wikipedia knows (a "declaration" from police is still an allegation). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:37, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Oppose Per WP:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, we are supposed to be an encyclopedia, and we are NOT supposed to be a dangerous free publicity machine for every murderous suicidal nutter, still less for every would-be terrorist and every terrorist organisation. So a terrorist incident should be truly exceptional and notable before appearing on our front page, all the more so as it is often liable to remain there giving dangerous free publicity (and thus in practice encouragement) to terrorists and other murderous nutters long after it has disappeared from the front pages of other mainstream Western news outlets (as many terrorists probably already realize, even if many editors around here seemingly don't). There is NOTHING in this incident that gives it the required exceptionality and notability to justify the danger this poses to innocent people, as well as the damage it might (rightly in my view) do to our reputation. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    See WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Your diatribe is interesting, but nothing to do with ITNC, otherwise we'd never publish another mass shooting in the US ever again. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:27, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose No lasting effect plus terrible disjointed article means it's a No from me, Bob. Black Kite (talk) 18:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The story stopped trending yesterday, and the death/injury toll is very low (luckily). If attacks of this kind were rare in the UK I would be willing to overlook these factors, but (unfortunately) there's been a seemingly-steady uptick in the last couple of years, so there's nothing about this that makes it stand out. Mount Patagonia (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    But the satellite blow-up stopped trending 36 hours ago and no-one died. Terror attacks where bombs are ignited on Remembrance Day are few and far between, I'm sure you can point me to the last time that happened, right? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I was referencing upticks in UK-based terror attacks in general, not ones falling on Rememberance Day. If terror attacks that fell on special occasions were automatic shoe-ins, then last year's Christmas bombing in Nashville would have been posted, but it wasn't for the same reasons I'm opposing posting this story. For the Russian satellite, take it up with the people for voted for it because I had no involvement in that decision. Mount Patagonia (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, terror attacks often happen on supposedly significant days or dates (sometimes perhaps coincidentally, sometimes perhaps as part of an attempt to increase the attack's psychological impact, or perhaps sometimes for quasi-religious reasons). Not only do we not use this as an excuse to put it into ITN, we sometimes leave it out of the article as well. For instance it was 5 years before Wikipedia mentioned that the Bataclan attacks occurred on Friday the 13th and there is still no link from it to the article about the superstition, presumably because RS don't mention such a link (perhaps to avoid making vulnerable people more fearful or otherwise psychologically distressed or harmed whenever 'significant' dates approach). Tlhslobus (talk) 15:33, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

T20 World Cup

[edit]
Article: 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, the T20 World Cup concludes with Australia defeating New Zealand in the final (Post)
News source(s): BBC Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I'm not keen on T20, but this is ITNR. Prose summaries of both innings are present though are currently unreferenced. It doesn't seem at all controversial though, so should be easy to source from a few match reports (such as those linked above). Modest Genius talk 12:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Etel Adnan

[edit]
Article: Etel Adnan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lebanese-American poet, essayist, and visual artist TJMSmith (talk) 01:17, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bertie Auld

[edit]
Article: Bertie Auld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Celtic, Birmingham and Scotland player and European Cup winner in 1967 with Celtic. Needs some citations which I’ll try and sort in the morning (if someone wants to fix in the meantime please do) JW 1961 Talk 20:21, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Indigo Partners orders 255 Airbus A321 jets

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. --Masem (t) 18:23, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Indigo Partners (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Indigo Partners orders 255 Airbus A321 jets. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
 Count Iblis (talk) 17:24, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 13

[edit]
November 13, 2021 (2021-11-13) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Ed Bullins

[edit]
Article: Ed Bullins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs more sourcing work which I may be able to get to in the next 24–36 hours. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:40, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Joanna Semel Rose

[edit]
Article: Joanna Semel Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Legacy
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American art patron and collector, publisher, and philanthropist. TJMSmith (talk) 00:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Please add more references. A few paragraphs have no footnotes at all! BTW, please be reminded to nominate this new article for DYK while it is still young enough to qualify. --PFHLai (talk) 23:09, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Petra Mayer

[edit]
Article: Petra Mayer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American book review editor and journalist. TJMSmith (talk) 20:53, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sam Huff

[edit]
Article: Sam Huff (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/sam-huff-dead/2021/11/13/493c542c-2e8e-11e6-b5db-e9bc84a2c8e4_story.html
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American football hall-of-famer. Could use more footnotes, but almost ready for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 18:34, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Wilbur Smith

[edit]
Article: Wilbur Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Stephen 03:07, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Glasgow Climate Pact

[edit]
Article: Glasgow Climate Pact (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Governments agree to the Glasgow Climate Pact at COP26, which includes a "phase-down" of coal. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 197 countries and territories agree to the Glasgow Climate Pact at COP26.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Glasgow Climate Pact is agreed at COP26 to attempt to limit the rise in global temperatures by 1.5°C.
News source(s): BBC, NYT, ABC, AP, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The Paris Agreement was posted after COP21 concluded. This agreement is the same, if not more important for global climate action. JMonkey2006 (talk) 01:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Glasgow Climate Pact obviously isn't remotely close to being front-page quality, and 2021 United Nations Climate Change Conference doesn't say what happened either. Once this is updated, I will probably support on importance. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 02:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose there's at least enough article to vote. Article still has issues; the "Pledges" section is describing things agreed at the conference that don't appear to be specifically part of the "Glasgow Climate Pact", and the link to Wikisource isn't broken. As far as importance ... we posted the conference once, and the biggest news is that there are plans to decrease coal usage ... this isn't worth posting again. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:06, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – in principle ... pending updating and succinct revision of 2021 climate conference article. It would be very odd not to blurb this universally covered confab, now over. – Sca (talk) 13:44, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment That we already posted the COP26 earlier, and that the general impression of the Glasgow Pact that I get from sources is that it is far less as a milestone compared to the Paris Agreements (since it basically affirms commitment to them) makes me wonder if this is really that significant to post a second time. --Masem (t) 14:23, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Au contraire. Despite disappointments, 'world leaders' said to "broadly welcome" the climate deal, which "for the first time targeted fossil fuels." At least they did something. Prominently covered by every major RS site. – Sca (talk) 15:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That sentence wasn't over. First time targeting fossil fuels "as the key driver of global warming". Whatever that means. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Resistance is futile. "In asking nations to set tougher targets by next year for cutting climate-warming emissions, the agreement effectively acknowledged that commitments were still inadequate. National pledges currently have the world on track for about 2.4C of warming." The article quality outlook is also dire. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:38, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    We're not here to judge the work of the conferees. We're here to take note a very heavily covered, extended international conference that was widely and prominently covered. Do I think the so-called climate pact will solve global warming? No (although it might be a move in the right direction). What you or I think of it doesn't matter. What matters is, it was/is very much in the news, and the topic is hugely significant. – Sca (talk) 17:32, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The work of the conferees is the topic. If the news reports the commitments made therein as inadequate, it's not hugely significant in the broader and more newsworthy topic area of global warming prevention. This running conference is just in the news because it was long expected to end today somehow. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Nope. Even if they had done nothing it would be significant for reasons outlined above. – Sca (talk) 17:49, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I respectfully disagree. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:54, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    If we hadn't posted the COP26 thing earlier, I would have been fine with posting this as an ending point as generally the overall conference was in the news. But given that we already did and this new piece is not a major piece of environmental commitment compared to the Paris Agreement, double posting this is just not appropriate. --Masem (t) 22:25, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article is short and unsourced in places. Also, given the Paris Agreement exists, it seems the impact of this is minimal (limited only to reducing coal). Joseph2302 (talk) 09:00, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on the merits; it's unusual for 197 countries to agree to any single document, even if largely a statement of principles or desires. But agree it is not yet suitable for posting. 331dot (talk) 10:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • It should be pointed out that not all 190-some signing countries are committed to the same parts of the document: for example, only 40+ are on board with coal reduction. Hence why this is far less impactful as the Paris Agreements. --Masem (t) 13:41, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb in principle, oppose on quality. The pact is a bit of a damp squib, far less ambitious than expected or required. However we're not here to judge the outcome, just whether it meets the ITN criteria. This is certainly in the news, at or near the top of every quality media outlet. However the pact article is barely a start class and needs some major TLC before being postable. I considered bolding the COP26 article again, but its 'outcomes' section is in even worse state. Modest Genius talk 12:20, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Conspicuous omission from ITN blurb box. – Sca (talk) 13:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sca As several users have noted, there are quality issues preventing posting. If you want to see it posted, you are welcome to fix those issues. 331dot (talk) 13:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Sca In what sense? The article is not good enough for front page quality (as ITN isn't OTD, which likes to post poorly sourced articles), and there's no consensus to post it anyway, as they don't seem to have all agreed anything (as different countries signed different agreements). If you want news pushed out as fast as possible, use a news website. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:44, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"likes"? Oh, come on. Be nice to our colleagues and neighbours on MainPage. They are rather understaffed there in SA/OTD. It's more like "less than ideal stuff sneaking through too often". But I'm off-topic... --PFHLai (talk) 14:32, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 12

[edit]
November 12, 2021 (2021-11-12) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) Ongoing: Belarus–EU border crisis

[edit]
Article: 2021 Belarus–European Union border crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): CNN, AP, BBC, Guiardian, dpa
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The crisis has reportedly reached a new height recently. November updates are there. Brandmeistertalk 17:53, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Definitely for Ongoing. Escalating situation.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:18, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Major story, prominently covered for many days. We shouldn't continue ignoring it. Probably May be worth a blurb if something decisive happens. Support Ongoing for now. – Sca (talk) 20:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ongoing it is an ongoing news story, and contrary to other people, there's no rule that it has to be on blurb before ongoing. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:58, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Deserved to be in the ongoing section. Major news story as mentioned above and article is more than ready. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 21:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support prominent enough (and updating frequently enough) to justify ongoing. I don't see a potential blurb. The article is not perfect, but it is good enough. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 21:45, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ongoing crisis and definitely receiving major coverage. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:43, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ongoing, lots of coverage JW 1961 Talk 23:07, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Appears to be a strong consensus for Ongoing. Suggest post there now. – Sca (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose ongoing. It needs a blurb first. It's a headline story in the news this week, so propose one. Then we'll consider ongoing afterwards. How many times do we have to go through this? It's getting ridiculous now.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:20, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Link to the policy page that supports your statement, please? WP:ITN says Any story may be proposed for an "ongoing" link through the normal use of the nomination page. Generally, these are stories which may lack a blurb-worthy event, but which nonetheless are still getting regular updates to the relevant article. suggests this nomination is just fine, procedurally. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:24, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I originally thought this was a joke and that this was a user, but then I realized that this is unironically stated by an admin. Wow. Wikipedia can be strange sometimes. --180.244.175.172 (talk) 01:45, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Leaving aside your snide comments here, there's no joke I'm afraid. I, along with others, consistently oppose attempts to post stories in Ongoing without giving them a blurb first, because most of the time it's lazy, unnecessary and does a disservice to readers who deserve to be told the reason why a story's important. I made an exception here because it's a rare occasion where there's a big constantly-updated story that doesn't really have one catch-all blurb available. Most of the time we should be blurbing before we put things into Ongoing, that's just common sense given that the stories are big enough to make the news.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:59, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Exactly who are these "others"? And if you think that's the correct thing to do, you and your others could just discuss this to the talk page in order to stop the unnecessary ranting every time someone attempted to get a topic straight to Ongoing. As some users have pointed out (力 above, 331dot, and Indefensible), what you say isn't written anywhere, so it could confuse people. Have a great day. --180.244.175.150 (talk) 16:11, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Amakuru The way the guidelines are written would seem to suggest that the opposite of your position is true(Any story may be proposed for an "ongoing" link through the normal use of the nomination page. Generally, these are stories which may lack a blurb-worthy event, but which nonetheless are still getting regular updates to the relevant article. ). If people want to know why something is important, they will read the article. If you would like to work to amend the guidelines to require a blurb first, please start such a discussion. 331dot (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          @331dot: you know as well as I do that the guidelines are mostly ignored in ITN discussions, in favour of precedent and unwritten custom. According to our "purpose", we are supposed to "help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news" - something we blatantly don't do, because instead we evaluate the significance of everything at ITN/C, under the mantra that we're "not a newsticker". I used to argue the opposite, but at some point you accept the status quo. The same goes here. While the guidelines may suggest that something can go straight to Ongoing, in practice that rarely happens. We blurb stories first and then drop it to Ongoing later, that's simply the way it's always worked. It'd be fantastic if we had a set of proper guidelines that we could follow in all cases, but it would need a bit change in the way the discussions on this page work.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:14, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          Throughout my history here I have always worked for the posting of items that I think are in the news and likely to be searched for. This is not 331dot's In The News, it is a community project, and I accept the consensus of what happens here(that's not a criticism of you, but a statement about me.) I do not claim that blurb-ongoing doesn't or shouldn't happen, only that the guidelines do not preclude (and actually encourage) straight-to-Ongoing posting. I would support clarifying that both are possible if there is consensus to do so. 331dot (talk) 19:22, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          I agree that most (but not all) of the time, stories should be blurbs before ongoing. If we need to discuss more, perhaps this should move to the talk page. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 19:41, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted  — Amakuru (talk) 23:38, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are many similar migrant/refugee issues elsewhere. For example, Record high migrant detentions at US-Mexico border; Record number of people cross Channel to UK in small boats; Ocean Viking: Nine-day standoff ends as migrant ship allowed to dock in Sicily; Iran deporting thousands of Afghan refugees. These seem endemic as there's a continuous pressure to move from poor and failed states to more stable and successful ones. It's not clear why this particular border should get attention and how it will stop being an ongoing issue. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Are you arguing that this is not receiving news coverage right now?(a genuine question) This is an example of refugees being used as a weapon, as the Belarus dictator has openly said he would do. There does not need to be a clear end date for something in order to post it to Ongoing; its removal can be proposed if it drops out of the news. If you feel other such events should be posted, please nominate them, we can only consider what is nominated. 331dot (talk) 14:47, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All of these hotspots are in the news both now and as ongoing for years. To single one out for special attention, there needs to be some special incident and that is best done as a blurb. As an ongoing entry, the linked article should be something more general such as European migrant crisis or List of largest refugee crises. Note that the latter has four entries which extend to the present day. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:32, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose ongoing, support blurb This seems to be a recent escalation for an ongoing border issue, for which a blurb makes sense IMO. If it's still ongoing by the time it rolls off the template, then it would be fine for ongoing. I know a blurb isn't a specific requirement for items to be added to the ongoing section, but given the inertia common to the ongoing section and the vague timelines that accompany these items (the majority of the time they are removed following lack of regular update for 1-2 weeks), I think encouraging blurbs with roll-over to ongoing should be preferred, and for this item I think makes a lot of sense. SpencerT•C 19:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then I suggest you make a suggestion for a blurb. Otherwise we are discussing something that does not exist.BabbaQ (talk) 22:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Hugh Leatherman

[edit]
Article: Hugh Leatherman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The State
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: South Carolina state senator for 30 years, died in office. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:59, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ron Flowers

[edit]
Article: Ron Flowers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Club career section needs more sources, then should be good to go. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:42, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 11

[edit]
November 11, 2021 (2021-11-11) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

RD: Cristiana Lôbo

[edit]
Article: Cristiana Lôbo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Exame
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Brazilian journalist. TJMSmith (talk) 00:16, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Art Stewart

[edit]
Article: Art Stewart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MLB.com; Associated Press; The Kansas City Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 00:19, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lee Ying-yuan

[edit]
Article: Lee Ying-yuan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Taipei Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Here's another somewhat thin wikibio of a Chinese politician and government official. It should meet the basic hygiene standards, but it would be great if more can be added on what he did as a minister. --PFHLai (talk) 23:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phyllis Webb

[edit]
Article: Phyllis Webb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:41, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Graeme Edge

[edit]
Article: Graeme Edge (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC etc
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Drummer and only original member of the Moody Blues still in the band. Long shot; article isn't great. -- a lad insane (channel two) 00:55, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment a couple of referenced pieces in here, and a few CN tags as well. Fix those up and you'll be good to go

Support Good to go. Fakescientist8000 (talk) 03:25, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Aga Mikolaj

[edit]
Article: Aga Mikolaj (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): operawire.com and others
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The article was just created this year. Sad loss (COVID-19, age 51) of a great soprano voice (as the DYK said). Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Winter (dolphin)

[edit]
Article: Winter (dolphin) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tampa Bay Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced and updated. RIP Winter --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Lundin Energy war crimes indictment

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 23:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Lundin Energy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two top executives of Lundin Energy are indicted in Sweden for abetting war crimes in Sudan. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, Sverirges Radio, Financial Times,

AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Updated with indictment news, may need cleanup. First war crimes trial against corporate executives since the Nuremberg trials. --Ugly Ketchup (talk) 21:01, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Lee Maracle

[edit]
Article: Lee Maracle (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs some ref work which I can hopefully get to soon-ish. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:31, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Blurb posted) RD: F. W. de Klerk

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: F. W. de Klerk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  F. W. de Klerk, the last apartheid-era President of South Africa, dies at the age of 85. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ F. W. de Klerk, the last white President of South Africa, who backed an end to apartheid, dies at age 85.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former South African President F. W. de Klerk (pictured), who negotiated the end of apartheid with Nelson Mandela, dies at age 85.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Last president of apartheid South Africa. Article being updated at present - Dumelow (talk) 10:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do we need to point out that he was white, especially if a picture is provided? We did not post that Mandela was black, but that he was an anti-apartheid leader. I think mentioning apartheid is more beneficial to readers than just the appearance/race. 331dot (talk) 13:15, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Most RS coverage refers to him as the last white president. Since racial apartheid was basically a white-supremacy policy, his race was and is highly relevant. – Sca (talk) 13:22, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

Also if you don't say 'white' then it may be difficult and/or confusing to avoid awkwardly saying 'apartheid' twice.Tlhslobus (talk) 13:58, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We can switch to alt1 if support is demonstrated here. --PFHLai (talk) 13:18, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Post-Posting) Support Altblurb (ideally altblurb2, but altblurb1 is also OK by me). (Support modified as I've now added Altblurb2, detailed explanation to follow below shortly) I was about to propose an altblurb myself before the current altblurb got suggested, and before the blurb got posted, but ran into edit conflict twice, and I see the proposed altblurb is probably a lot more concise than I could have managed. Our blurb should say as concisely as possible something like that he negotiated the end of apartheid with Mandela (concision may or may not require omitting explicit mention of Mandela, as in the current altblurb). After all, that's why he's really notable and worth a blurb. And if we don't say it explicitly (and our posted blurb doesn't) it arguably makes us look a bit racist to the uninformed, on the basis of 'Why would an Apartheid President deserve a blurb?'. I may or may not try to add one or more other altblurbs shortly, simply to mention Mandela, but I suspect other editors may do a better (more concise) job there than me, as I'm usually not very good at concision. Tlhslobus (talk) 13:28, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But we're impressed with your use of the word "concision." – Sca (talk) 13:39, 11 November 2021 (UTC)  ;-)[reply]
And presumably you're even more impressed with the lack of concision in my use of the word "concision." – Tlhslobus (talk) 13:49, 11 November 2021 (UTC) [reply]
Well, appropriately, it was your last word (the 175th). – Sca (talk) 14:01, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not disagreeing on a stronger altblurb, but I would suggest stronger language as he not only backed the end, but (from our article) seemed to actively support steps in dismantling apartheid and making South Africa democratic (obviously he didn't do it alone). Just saying he backed the end seems to be an undercut statement to that point. --Masem (t) 13:37, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I used "backed" as a slightly shorter version of "supported" (ex-jnlst that I am). – Sca (talk) 13:43, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've now added altblurb2, and amended my support to support it as my preferred altblurb, tho altblurb1 is also OK by me. The advantages of altblurb2 (compared to altblurb1) is that it avoids mentioning 'white', avoids saying 'apartheid' twice, mentions Mandela, and is stronger and more precise than merely 'backed', while still being only slightly longer than altblurb1. (I've already mentioned above the advantages of either altblurb compared to our current posted blurb). Tlhslobus (talk) 14:16, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(Altblurb2 just got a little longer as I've added '(pictured)' to show its expected true length).Tlhslobus (talk) 14:25, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've deitalicized the situation somewhat. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It can be done in several ways. Shortest is perhaps "Nobel-Prize-winning former ...". Alternatively "..., who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with Nelson Mandela for ending apartheid, ...". But I'm neutral on whether it would be a good idea, for several reasons. On the plus side it's fairly important info. On the minus side, it lengthens the blurb. And I had to omit the date to avoid confusion (the prize was 1993, apartheid ended in 1994). And some might argue that it's unnecessary/unbalanced gilding of the lily, and some might want to balance it with a word such as "controversial" (because of his actual or alleged role/responsibility in some of the worst crimes of apartheid, a seemingly still ongoing debate in today's South Africa). Personally I prefer not to risk getting further involved in such an argument. Tlhslobus (talk) 20:09, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed)(Re-posted) Crew-3 launch

[edit]
This was posted when the item was ITNR and this is fine, even if the ITNR entry was later removed. Let's discuss further when there is a next crewed launch. --Tone 15:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: SpaceX Crew-3 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ SpaceX launches four astronauts on the Crew-3 mission to the International Space Station. (Post)
News source(s): [41]
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Crewed missions are ITN/R as far as I know. Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:30, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • At another similar discussion, someone else said, "As has been noted, this seems to come up every so often, everyone seems in broad agreement that it needs to change when it does so, and then somehow it fizzles out with nothing being done. Therefore I'm going to be bold and change it ...". That discussion wasn't formally closed either and so the ITN/R entry represents a unilateral bold update rather than some considered consensus. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:42, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • KTC made a good point at ITN/R but there was low attendance at the discussion and no formal close. It seems clear that ITN/R lacks the participation required to establish a solid consensus. ITN/C is the place that gets the attendance because it's linked on the main page. It's therefore ITN/C that should drive the outcomes. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:41, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, lots of information in the infobox is not sourced anywhere in the article, and there's an over-reliance on tweets, which are primary sources. And the "Mission" section doesn't actually explain what their mission is (for what reason are they just going up to the ISS)? Joseph2302 (talk) 16:50, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Shucks, that was what made the last one interesting. – Sca (talk) 17:26, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, 600. What an unimportant number. -- Kicking222 (talk) 10:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Without it, there'd be absolutely no way from 599 to 601! But yeah, in space travel context, not at all significant. Just something to beef up the lead section, I assume. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I actually don't disagree that this is routine, and have proposed excluding such launches from ITNR(but not total removal)- but there is no consensus to do so yet and I don't see a benefit to the encyclopedia in ignoring this "rule". 331dot (talk) 10:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support good to go, article quality sufficient for this ITNR item. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:13, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready on quality almost all the infobox information is not sourced in the article- if not sourced in the infobox, it should be added somewhere in the body of the text with sources. This includes all the "Spacecraft properties" information, "End of mission" proposed dates, "Undocking" dates. And using way too many tweets as primary sources instead of actual reliable sources. Good that everyone has ignored these article quality abominations.... Joseph2302 (talk) 11:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Easily the least interesting of recent shuttle stories. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: on one hand, this is (currently) on ITNR and the article is in reasonable shape - the orange tags seem overkill to me. On the other hand, it's a routine crew rotation, I've been arguing those shouldn't be on ITNR for a decade, and the current discussion on WT:ITN seems to have general agreement that ITNR shouldn't cover this sort of flight, even if it doesn't agree on exactly what the new wording should be. I encourage further participation in that discussion. Modest Genius talk 14:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting The result of the discussion so far is that the article quality is sufficient and the item is on ITNR. Some editors disagree with the ITNR criteria, which seems like a reasonable position to consider. However, the decision whether to post this ITN item is not sufficiently important to invoke IAR. Those who think ITNR should be altered are invited to go make that change. Until it happens, this item should be posted. Maybe it will be the last routine posting of human orbital flights, or maybe not. Feel free to continue the discussion. Consensus may change. Jehochman Talk 14:17, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now on hold for quality because one editor insists on restoring the orange warning template. I suggest editors who want this posted go address the concerns about infobox information needing citations. This should be easy and quick to fix, and then it can be posted. Jehochman Talk 14:38, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to find any info on the launch and landing mass, but no luck so far. Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:53, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the sourced content is crap trivia (or more politely, "NASA PR") like The first astronauts of this NASA Astronaut Group 22 (nicknamed The Turtles) to fly to space, Raja Chari and Kayla Barron on SpaceX Crew-3 took a stuffed turtle as zero-g indicator, to pay a tribute to their astronaut group. Additionally, to include the other crew members on board, Matthias Maurer and Tom Marshburn, the turtle was named "Pfau", a German word meaning "Peacock" for Matthias Maurer who is German, and for Tom Marshburn who was part of NASA Astronaut Group 19 (nicknamed The Peacock). I didn't even bother checking for non-sourced content. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 17:07, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    If you can improve the article, please do. Jehochman Talk 01:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't improve it. It is fully sourced and contains all the important information about the event. The problem is that there is so little important information to cover that the article also has to include unimportant information to not be a stub. Also, I agree that per policy this should be posted; it's not worth being brave to early-close the talk page discussion to remove this from ITNR immediately. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 16:59, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    As I've said of ITNR before, it should be that any discussion about the rational for posting the broad categories of events should not be debated at ITNC on the basis there was consensus for the ITNR, but individual ITNR noms can be deemed to be so insignificant as exceptions from the category (as this appears to have qualified) as a type of IAR to the ITNR approach. This is of course in addition to the article quality aspects. ITNR is not a blood pact that we have to post every thing that fits. EG: about a year ago there was that Martian (?) sample collector that was first nom'd when it arrived in orbit (which was ITRN) but we decided to wait until news of the sample collection (the first of its sort) as the more notable event. That's the type of logic that should be behind judging ITNR. --Masem (t) 17:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The missing citations were fixed. Two uncited facts remained, and I just removed them because if we can't find a source after a full day of looking, that calls those facts into question. I will repost this in a moment. Feel free to continue discussion. Jehochman Talk 01:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Comment – It's now the least interesting blurb in the box. – Sca (talk) 13:53, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree. Now would be a good time to recommend changing the ITNR criteria for human space flight. Jehochman Talk 15:36, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Oppose more people being sent to space for little reason, aside from routine? Why is this “news”? 2A01:4C8:481:753A:912B:C8B8:F206:CFDF (talk) 14:21, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose. Routine enough event that it'd never have been approved if it wasn't spaceflight-related. This is systemic bias at work. Jehochman, please reevaluate your determination of consensus here. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 20:05, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's still ITNR, so all Jehochman has to do is assess article quality, as you well know having just voted on the proposal to remove spaceflight entirely from ITNR. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull - Consensus on ITNR is trending heavily against news items of this sort. The right thing to do would be to remove this from ITN.--WaltCip-(talk) 21:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Nah, you can't retrospectively apply a trend. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:44, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Where there's a will.... – Sca (talk) 13:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Strikes me as churlish and petty now it's been there a few days. And after all, no actual readers have complained about its presence, just some who are lawyering around the edges of the process. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NPA – Sca (talk) 13:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Um, you know the P stands for "personal", right? Oh dear. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:32, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Churlish and petty are words characterizing personal acts or traits, are they not?. – Sca (talk) 14:35, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would oppose any pulling. The discussion on ITN/R about future postings should have no bearing on this one.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:37, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose pulling. This was validly posted and should be left alone. If the next one is not under ITNR, fair enough(though I disagree with its total removal) but this one that was validly posted does not need to be removed. 331dot (talk) 13:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pulling nobody demonstrated this was important enough for ITN, they just used "it's ITNR" as justification. And the discussion has disproved that justification, as consensus is that it's not important. It was a nomination predicated on an untrue assertion. I would support doing the pull as a replacement when the next ITN blurb is added, so we don't have too little content on ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:41, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That does not change that it was a valid posting when it was made. I don't think we should retroactively change policies. 331dot (talk) 14:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 10

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November 9

[edit]

RD: Walter Gratzer

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Max Cleland

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Template:ITN candidate

November 8

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 8 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Pedro Feliciano

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Mahlagha Mallah

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Abdul Wahab Dalimunthe

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Seán FitzPatrick

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Template:ITN candidate

November 7

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 7 Template:Cob

RD: Dean Stockwell

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose for now. There's at least one uncited section, and there are sporadic places where additional cites would help. Furthermore, the article is basically a prose filmography, "In 1999, he appeared in the films X, Y, and Z. In 2000, he appeared in an episode of the TV show yada yada" and there's little else there. It could probably use for a bit of an overhaul to improve narrative flow. --Jayron32 17:23, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 NASCAR Cup Series

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) 2021 NYC Marathon

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Template:ITN candidate

  • I haven't seen this suggested/required for non bold links in other ITN nominations, so not sure why it's a necessity to this nomination. Both articles have this result listed and having them on front page is a good opportunity to encourage people to improve those articles. Rather than trying to demand they're improved before being linked on this ITN nomination. Neither articles has critical issues, so perfectly fine to link to them as is. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:29, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not demanding it, but it would be nice to see the winners also highlighted if they could be improved quickly, hence why I explained how far away they were from being there. --Masem (t) 20:33, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Nicaraguan general election

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Template:ITN candidate

Stop the presses. – Sca (talk) 14:39, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Attempted assassination of Mustafa Al-Kadhimi

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

November 6

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 6 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Maureen Cleave

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Template:ITN candidate

Thanks, Bloom. This wikibio is now long enough (almost 2500 characters), has footnotes at the expected spots, and thus READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 13:23, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Shawn Rhoden

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Tarak Sinha

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Muamer Zukorlić

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Template:ITN candidate

Then it's a support from me. Scaramouche33 (talk) 10:53, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Freetown fuel tanker explosion

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Template:ITN candidate

My aim is simply to avoid confusing a sizeable proportion of our audience. →
Note PFHLai 's comment above. – Sca (talk) 15:52, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You just resent the Battle of Yorktown. – Sca (talk) 16:11, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's only yanks who are obsessed with that and the tea party. The UK gives no shits about that at all, you do realise that, right? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But Ramblo, we Yanks revere the Magna Carta and all that stuff! – Sca (talk) 16:16, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really understand what all this ancient history and flag-shagging is all about with relevance to naming this event correctly. I'll follow the reliable sources, you stick to diluting things to Amurican. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Od It's about reader comprehension. – Sca (talk) 16:22, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, the ancient history and flag-shagging is about reader comprehension? I see. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:23, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's been great fun, but I'm behind my Saturday schedule – must do laundry forthwith, then comes the high point of my day: lunch.
Au revoir. – Sca (talk) 16:32, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Good answer. So it was of no relevance. Thanks anyway. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:33, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I tanked my frustrations in a bacon & melty cheese sandwich on toasted rye. – Sca (talk) 22:22, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Khawaja Muhammad Sharif

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Template:ITN candidate

November 5

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 5 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Reginald Green (economist)

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Adolfo J. de Bold

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Siluyan

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) Astroworld Festival crowd crush

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Template:ITN candidate

Scott was a participant in the festival, but not the crush, so an image of him shouldn't be included on ITN. The blurb is about the crush, not the festival. Jim Michael (talk) 21:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marília Mendonça

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Template:ITN candidate

November 4

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 4 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Lionel Blair

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Tigray War

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Where is that stated in the guidelines? 331dot (talk) 19:02, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with 331dot, the guidelines do not seem to say that starting with a blurb and then rolling down is required. I think requirements are met with this nomination. - Indefensible (talk) 22:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: See "Could Ethiopia's capital fall to Tigrayan and allied forces?" [44] – Sca (talk) 12:17, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - article seems pretty well sourced overall, the issues tagged do not seem like that big of a deal to me. - Indefensible (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    An orange maintenance tag suggesting the article needs to be updated doesn't seem like a big deal for you for an "ongoing" nomination? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, orange banners are just someone's opinion, I would just remove those 2 banners personally with perhaps some minor update, the issues aren't really deal breakers in my opinion. - Indefensible (talk) 22:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That's just ... indefensible. You do you. And if you're so convinced, go ahead and do it, don't sit on the fence! Also, I'm not seeing a substantial update since 2 November, am I missing something? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's defensible. For comparison, look at the article for Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) included in the 2021 Japanese general election blurb. There are 2 orange banners on that article similar to this nomination, but for poor referencing which is more serious compared to here where the tagged sections are well sourced. Notice in my nomination for the Japanese election that I actually did not link the article because I did not think it should be on the front page. That article was not bolded or the focus of the blurb, but still was posted despite the issues. Both that article and this would be non-bolded links, so why should that be OK and not this? In my opinion, this article better meets the quality requirements so there should not be a fundamental issue. But I realize this is against the consensus so currently I do not plan to remove the banners and start an edit war personally. - Indefensible (talk) 22:56, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you've demonstrated the contrary, and to reiterate, Template:Xt? This is, after all, an "Ongoing" nomination. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Look at the article's history. What is the definition for meeting the ongoing requirements by "regularly updated with new, pertinent information"? Seems up to semantic interpretation, but I would say it meets that. If not, the update provided by Sca below probably has more than enough information to add material to qualify. - Indefensible (talk) 23:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    And as per usual, the "it's still in the news" gets called out, but yet nothing is being added to the article. You literally can't support an ongoing nomination that isn't being updated in light of information that you yourself are aware of but which isn't in the article. That, I'm afraid, is literally indefensible. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:06, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That update was provided after my vote, I don't think I need to retroactively withdraw support because of that. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. I think the article has been updated well enough to when I voted and is actively being maintained. The recent edits on the article seem enough to be considered under the guidelines, otherwise they really should be defined better. - Indefensible (talk) 23:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This is bizarre. I can't see a discernible update since 2 November. You told me that Sca's links provide enough info for an update, but yet that update hasn't happened, yet you support ongoing, ignoring the maintenance tag, even though you actually know this ongoing event's article hasn't been updated? Enough for me. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:15, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    There are 2 issues here: quality and updating. It has been 3 days since the 2nd, where does it say in the requirements that 3 days exceeds qualifying for ongoing? Plus I would say that enough material has been added since then (even just today) for qualification. On quality, how does this article not qualify when the Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) article qualified for posting? - Indefensible (talk) 23:20, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Enough. I'm sorry to have replied as many times. You're entitled to your position. That I find it absurd and indefensible is irrelevant. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Fine, but maybe you should not find the position "absurd and indefensible" per the unaddressed issues pointed out. - Indefensible (talk) 23:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, since you're not going to leave it, was Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) the target article at Ongoing? Was it the target article in the blurb? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:26, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    No, but what difference is there when both are non-bolded links? Where does it say there is a difference in the requirements? - Indefensible (talk) 23:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    What?? We vote on the target article, not other articles included in the blurb. Whatever are you talking about? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    So we don't care about the quality of an article so long as it's non-target, is what you're saying? We can have trash on the front page as long as it's not bolded seems to be the takeaway. - Indefensible (talk) 23:32, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Um, I'm saying that the ITN process calls for quality assessment of its target articles and generally ignores the quality of other linked articles. Yes, that's correct. But in this case of an ongoing article, we look for regular quality updates, and this has been tagged with an "update needed" tag with which you agree based on Sca's examples below yet which aren't in the actual article. (Have you ever clicked on any non-bold link anywhere on the main page????!!!!) It's all extremely odd. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:34, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking at the nom again, you have to admit the referencing is good, right? The banners are not about poor quality of referencing. The 1st banner is the war crimes section. There is a dedicated article (War crimes in the Tigray War) that again seems to have good referencing and goes into more detail. Why do we need to expand the section on the main article when there is a dedicated link for it? That is not a quality issue, it's a verbosity issue.
    For the 2nd banner on humanitarian crisis, again the referencing is not poor quality but rather is asking for new updates. But what updates are there to write, isn't that WP:CRYSTAL? If that is the available information, then it should be enough but calling it a quality issue seems inaccurate. - Indefensible (talk) 23:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody appears to be questioning the references, why bring that up? It needs to be updated (did literally nothing happen in the last three days?) for ongoing. But hey, I'm done trying to explain this to you today. I'm glad you've realised now that not all articles linked from the main page are tip-top (indeed, I just randomly clicked on four, two of which had maintenance banners) but the difference is, they're not the target articles. Good luck making this fly, right now knowing that it's not been updated properly and still supporting it for ongoing is literally indefensible. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:44, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The point to me is that this article is good enough for encyclopedic coverage, there is more gained listing it currently than lost by not posting it because of the issues. It's like being at 95% and being held by the last 5%. This is about a literal warzone, information is not going to be made freely available for the convenience of Wikipedia editors in 1st world countries. We should use the material available, it seems to meet the requirements to me and the problems tagged are minor in comparison to what is there. - Indefensible (talk) 23:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – UN Security Council on Friday calls for end to Ethiopia-Tigray fighting. AP, Al Jazeera – Sca (talk) 22:13, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the links, article updated with that info. - Indefensible (talk) 03:17, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update - User:The Rambling Man, User:Joseph2302, User:Amakuru, User:Jayron32, User:NorthernFalcon, User:Scaramouche33, User:Sca - the article has been updated and the orange banners removed (not by me), can you please re-evaluate? - Indefensible (talk) 18:05, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Eritrea's reaction is uncited. The country is playing a major role in the conflict so including their reaction is important. Otherwise weak support for ongoing.Scaramouche33 (talk) 18:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Isaias Afwerki rare tv interview: Template:Diff Boud (talk) 18:48, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Template:U, re your 'alert,' I don't think we've resolved whether this topic should be posted directly to Ongoing.
    – Sca (talk) 22:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed, it's been "ongoing" for more than a year. If something has tangibly changed in the last three or four days to mean we are now settling down for a massive campaign, that might be different, but otherwise this appears to be business as usual. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The United Nations Security Council issued a unanimous statement on the subject, how is this event less notable than the COP26, fuel tanker explosion, or Astroworld blurbs? This is arguably more notable or at least in the same class as those, and the article is significantly more encyclopedic. The quality issues have been resolved. - Indefensible (talk) 22:11, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, so it's the UN announcement? Then make that a blurb suggestion. As for "significantly more encyclopedic", that's in the eye of the beholder of course. Cheers! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:14, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Look at the content quantity between the articles referenced and the number of sources, there is objectively at least an order of magnitude difference. That is not opinion. - Indefensible (talk) 22:16, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This isn't a beauty contest, and it appears that the nominated event has been "ongoing" for a year, so my recommendation is that if something truly significant has occurred, it should be nominated for an ITNC blurb. Good luck! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:20, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not my nomination, I am just supporting it. But look at the COVID-19 pandemic article, it has been less updated than this article. By your own standard, why does that deserve to stay posted in ongoing? Based on what you wrote above, it should be removed. - Indefensible (talk) 22:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Good grief, are you still complaining? If you think the COVID ongoing article should be removed, please nominate it for removal. It's happened before. And don't forget, I'm just stating my opinion. This shouldn't be an ongoing nomination, it's been "ongoing" for a year and nothing really encyclopedic has happened in the last week to make it reasonable for posting to the Ongoing section. If you think the UN announcement (!!) is worth a blurb, go for it. Meanwhile, this is going nowhere. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Discussing the rules and their validity is appropriate, do you not think so? You are free to not reply if no longer interested, I am just expressing my opinion as well. This nomination probably would have been unfairly SNOW closed without a support vote, but instead the article has been improved so it has been productive. - Indefensible (talk) 22:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no objection to other people continuing this discussion, what I do object to is complaints about "other stuff", about "numbers of references", etc. I'm pleased the article has had more eyes on it. I just think if the nomination had been better made, this would have had a better outcome for all. Going all-in on an Ongoing when the event has been in train for a year is doomed to fail. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:41, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    There should not be a fundamental issue with cross-referencing to different subjects for comparison in my opinion, because that gets "out of the box" of a single topic and gets at the meta details of improving Wikipedia as encyclopedia. You may see differently and that's fine, but I don't think viewing it differently should be a problem. I will probably reply on certain bits on the talk page as appropriate.
    However, note that initial opposing votes on this nomination from you and others were not based on being an ongoing vs blurb nomination. Frankly it does not matter either way in my opinion so long as it meets the requirements (which I think it does). The initial comments were objecting based on quality. Those quality issues have been fixed, so the initial objections are no longer valid. - Indefensible (talk) 22:46, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    You'll have to forgive this: the very first thing I look for in an ongoing nomination isn't "significance" or "number of sources" or whatever, it's "is it really updated nicely and appropriately". It wasn't, it was actually tagged for the opposite. Then once that appeared to be resolved, you pinged me and I questioned what actual "ongoing" reality was suddenly worthy, versus a blurb. I haven't had an answer. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:51, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That's fair, keep in mind the ping was not just for you but also the others who voted oppose based on quality. Frankly I do not care too much whether the entry is a blurb or ongoing per above. The only person who initially opposed based on ongoing was Amakuru, and there is a separate reply for that above.
    If quality is no longer an issue and we are looking at ongoing, then we should look at the guidelines. As you know, they are here: https://wiki.eso.workers.dev/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news#Ongoing_section
    The article has been updated, so what criteria does the article still not meet? - Indefensible (talk) 22:55, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This has been going on for *over a year* at this point. It seems a bit odd to post something that started a year ago as 'ongoing'. I would have supported it if it was maybe a week after the war began, however. Fakescientist8000 (talk) 12:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Quite. If something remarkable has recently happened then in which case this should be blurbed really. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:22, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    You're saying that something that has been ongoing is not appropriate for ongoing. What difference does it make? Covid-19 has been going on for over a year at this point and the article is less updated, so there is an inconsistency there. - Indefensible (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Not ongoing news? Amnesty International 5 Nov "Ethiopia: Country on brink of catastrophe as Tigray conflict escalates"; The Guardian 7 Nov "The Guardian view on Ethiopia: sliding deeper into disaster". Boud (talk) 05:50, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Much of the updating of Tigray War is in the sub-articles. Template:Tigray conflict currently lists about 157 sub-articles, which makes a new Wikipedia article on the Tigray War typically about once every two days. This is rather unsurprising given the events taking place and the sources available. There's a high risk of the wider Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present) across Ethiopia being stoked into a full civil war of 110 million people. Boud (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    If the "updates" in question are only important enough for sub-articles, it seems a stretch to say they're of the calibre that would get them a slot in ITN. In any case, as I said before, propose a blurb for something that's been recently added to the article and we can consider it. Until then, this discussion seems rather moot.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:49, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Where does it say in the guidelines that an ongoing entry requires starting as a blurb and then rolling down? - Indefensible (talk) 19:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Blurb proposal: The Tigray War threatens the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa. matching updates such as Template:Diff. Boud (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    COVID-19 pandemic has had 500 edits since 17 May 2021, while Tigray War has had 830 edits since 19 May 2021. So Tigray War is about 70% more ongoing than COVID-19 pandemic if we ignore sub-articles. If we consider sub-articles, then my guess is that COVID-19 pandemic would be more editorially active Template:Small Boud (talk) 20:27, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Glad you agree, sadly no one else seems to care unfortunately. It seems pretty clear that guidelines are not being applied consistently across entries using these as examples. This may be an example of bias on Wikipedia. - Indefensible (talk) 23:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Given that this has been an ongoing thing for a year, we'd need a critically major event to actually promote it to a blurb first and then may settled down into an ongoing. Making it ongoing now without any reason this late into the event is really not helpful (I could understand if we were maybe a week or month late). --Masem (t) 13:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Where does it say in the guidelines that an ongoing event cannot be listed to ongoing because the nomination is late relative to the beginning of the event? It seems highly contradictory that ongoing events cannot be listed in ongoing. Also, where is starting as a blurb and then rolling down into ongoing required in the guidelines? - Indefensible (talk) 19:45, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – AP on Nov. 8 says Eritrean soldiers remain in Tigray, and reports continued mass detentions of Tigrayans. – Sca (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

November 3

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 3 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Jean Pierson

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) Booker prize

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Georgie Dann

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) 2021 World Series

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Disappearance of Cleo Smith

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Ping Australia actually, but provincial nonetheless. Stephen 01:28, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Who?" Literally me on every RD nom KingOfAllThings (thou shalt chatter!) 18:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

November 2

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 2 Template:Cob

(Stale) RD: Li Zehou

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Ali Fadhul

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Template:ITN candidate

November 1

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2021 November 1 Template:Cob

(Posted) 2021 Lagos high-rise collapse

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Nelson Freire

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Aaron T. Beck

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Weak oppose The article has several sentences without citations. I'm working on it because I too would like to see Beck get ITN recognition.
Support I've fixed it. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 United Nations Climate Change Conference

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose. The conference is only just beginning, and the 1.5C target is something that's already in effect from the Paris agreement. If any big developments come out of Cop26 then we can post those, but the mere fact of the summit opening is not an ITN item IMHO.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. We should consider this event when the conference ends and we know what agreement (if any) has been reached. Merely starting the talks is not sufficient. Modest Genius talk 12:10, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not much has changed since last time this was nominated: #(Closed) COP 26. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:16, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Still too early. Coverage is of a preliminary nature. [45] [46] [47] Perhaps we should close this until something newsworthy comes out of the big confab. – Sca (talk) 12:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait to see what if any resolutions are made from the conference, but generally opposed to just news blurb about the conference. --Masem (t) 13:21, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I thought the mere fact of something being in the news all over the planet - like 120 world leaders meeting - was enough for an ITN item. Meanwhile is there anything needs improving in the article? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:49, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is of sufficient quality, and highly reliable news sources are covering this story. Checks every box for posting. --Jayron32 14:37, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would argue that if we were going to post this, we should be following how we post political summits at ITNR, which is, at their conclusion. (per this discussion [48]) Even though this is NOT ITNR, the same principle should be held if deemed notable for posting --Masem (t) 14:44, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • That discussion includes "This would not stop the opening being nominated in the normal manner should it be unusually significant for some reason." I would argue that 120 world leaders meeting is unusually significant - they only meet today and tomorrow so I feel it should be posted straight away. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well the current blurb is misleading, as the 1.5 C change is already agreed by the Paris Agreement. And as far as I can see, there haven't actually been any newsworthy developments from this so far. If there are, then that would be the time to post IMO. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • 120 world leaders meeting is newsworthy in itself. Re 1.5 you are right that that was agreed as an aim at Paris. But it is in danger of becoming almost impossible - that is why UK specifies keeping it feasible as a goal of the conference. However you or anyone else may well be able to come up with a better blurb - I welcome suggestions. Chidgk1 (talk) 15:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This user (an ex-journalist) contends that delegates merely meeting to discuss global issues is, in most cases, not newsworthy in the ITN sense, as talk by itself is without tangible impact no matter how important the topic. (An exception might be a peace conference to end a major war.) – Sca (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Evidence of newsworthiness is determined by news actually covering it. That we wish or hoped that news was not covering it because we don't personally believe it is worthy is not newsworthiness. News decides what is newsworthy. --Jayron32 15:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We've had this discussion more than once. Let's agree to disagree. – Sca (talk) 16:18, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • He said newsworthy "in the ITN sense" which we usually call "signficance." If we posted everything that RS covered, ITN would be nothing but Kardashians and K-Pop. 159.53.174.147 (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Reliable news sources. We assess where something is being covered; how it is being covered, to what depth it is being covered, etc. The BBC doesn't really assign it's top investigative reporters to do stories on Kardashians and K-pop. You've invented a problem that does not exist. You're tilting at windmills. --Jayron32 16:44, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yup. As witnessed by the parallel phenomenon that some pop stars get Wiki articles exceeding 10,000 words. Yawn. – Sca (talk) 16:18, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jayron's position is always easy to sweep away, e.g. we have shedloads of RS news sources talking about what the Queen had to say about COP26 today but never, not in a million years, would anyone ever consider it ITN-worthy. There is, and must be, a level of common sense applied to this, not just "it's in the news, per RS, and an update was suitable". The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:40, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You have somebody writing about what the Queen had to say. The difference is using discernment on which sources to use to determine if something is significant. The difference between your position and mine is that your position is, and has always been, "things are significant because I like them" and my position has always been "Things are significant because the right kinds of sources are covering it". --Jayron32 11:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Don't be silly Jayron. The BBC, The Independent, The Times, The Guardian, Sky News, The Daily Telegraph, USA Today, Yahoo, etc etc all covered the queen's comments in detail. It matches your "standard". And no, you don't know my "position" at all, all the rest of us know is that "your position" is flawed because it would allow any old crap to be posted. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:40, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Really? Can you show me where I argued that we should be posting "any old crap"? Also, the fact that the BBC writ large covers something is not what I have ever argued for. The BBC is covering this conference in detail, not just the Queen's comments. That's what makes it newsworthy. The Queen's comments are irrelevant. --Jayron32 12:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
REALLY? The works I've listed have literally entire articles dedicated to what the queen has said. That matches your own odd definition of what needs to be posted, covered by multiple RS and a suitable update: bingo! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:04, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I still haven't brought that topic up. You have. I've only said that the current blurb is worth posting. Again, you're tilting at windmills. --Jayron32 12:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Again? You're getting confused. You've been hoisted by your own petard. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:11, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You can win today if it makes you feel better. Not arguing with you is far more useful to me than being right. Congratulations. I'm wrong and you're right. --Jayron32 12:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Of course. And one can be proven wrong time after time after time, but it doesn't stop the misery. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:52, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Yeah, just disappointed the other muppet hasn't turned up. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:02, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hey guys I only need an admin now at the bottom of this request - so please turn off your computers and get outside https://xkcd.com/2247/ Chidgk1 (talk) 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Wasting time and resource since 2007 I think Martin. You found your level with the other muppet, but it's really a waste of time all this, and your "comedic" YouTube links etc. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No both of you have been helpful - very glad this is ITN at last - thanks to all who helped get it in Chidgk1 (talk) 18:31, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Ongoing seems to be a reasonable idea. I'm agnostic as to where it is posted, the article is in good shape, and where it is posted in the box seems inconsequential to me. --Jayron32 16:44, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ongoing is probably better than a blurb right now, presumably the blurb will need to be updated at least once the conference is over with any major results but will probably have rolled off by then, so it would be repeated. If the conference goes smoothly then it can be maintained in the box there and get any updates as required for an ongoing post, once it concludes the ongoing can be taken off and converted to a blurb, and only if something unexpected happens like a terrorist attack would it otherwise be noteworthy for a blurb prior to conclusion. - Indefensible (talk) 16:54, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing is meant to be used for news titles where there would be expected routinely new headlines (with a high chance for blurbability at ITN) so that we're not posting multiple blurbs about the same event day after day (eg like with Olympics or World Cup). These types of conferences usually get news when they are started, and when they conclude if any significant resolutions are made, but the expectations for intermediate stories are very low, and thus this is not a good idea for ongoing. --Masem (t) 17:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support adding to Ongoing. Seems better suited for that section.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:57, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing would be the best solution IMO. We could post a blurb if a major agreement is reached, but that's questionable. Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:04, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb and ongoing and Wait until the end. Ongoing is not a solution, as that is for articles with "regularly updated...new, pertinent information." There is no reason to crystalball that substantive material is going to emerge from the meetings on a continuous basis. 159.53.110.220 (talk) 17:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    If there are no updates then you could just nominate it for removal, the opposite case is the article never gets posted but I agree with the nominator that having the event itself and the article should probably qualify for some posting on quality and significance. - Indefensible (talk) 17:20, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    No, that's precisely what I'm saying, we can't post it now on the speculation that it will receive interesting updates - we need to show that the event has already been getting regular updates based on new pertinent information before posting to ongoing. (note: I made the preceding IP comment while logged out) GreatCaesarsGhost 01:30, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The event has just started and the article is starting to receive updates, I think one could say that already qualifies for ongoing per what you wrote. That's why there are some people voting support. - Indefensible (talk) 01:56, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until there's an actionable deliverable or other hard outcome. CoatCheck (talk) 17:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support only because the top story on ITN is nearly a week old and we need to put something new up there, and this conference is close enough to work. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:40, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Not an acceptable reason. – Sca (talk) 18:52, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Well in that case, I'm supporting because the article is well-cited, meeting quality requirements; and because the event is headline news, meaning that readers are likely to be searching for it. Furthermore, regarding the subject of climate change, I would argue that a failure to reach an accord would be just as significant as an accord, given the potential global consequences of not reaching an accord. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:57, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is an ongoing topic of global importance with nearly consistent global news coverage for the next few weeks, should have a highlight and then transition to ongoing, Sadads (talk) 20:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – As with some other recent situations, posting this directly to Ongoing might be a reasonable gambit, given the garrulity of the multiple players and the expectation of it going on for some time. – Sca (talk) 22:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - As we now have a statement from the leaders I would prefer to have a blurb first before putting it in "ongoing" later. I have added an alternative blurb for your consideration. Chidgk1 (talk) 05:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The article needs to be updated to say that, currently the word "deforestation" isn't mentioned at all. - Indefensible (talk) 05:44, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the deforestation thing is not yet a signed agreement [49] its' what the UK has claimed to have commitments from, but no one has inked anything yet to paper, so this would not be an appropriate blurb to make. If that is an agreement they sign off before the end of this event, that would be appropriate, but not on simply a claim from the UK. --Masem (t) 05:51, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I see from the BBC live feed that they have now signed. Chidgk1 (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can tell, this deforestation communique is a vague aspiration, not a binding legal commitment. Modest Genius talk 11:09, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing, perhaps it is because the conference is in Glasgow, but events from COP26 have been continually at the headline of news here in the UK for the last few days. LukeSurl t c 09:02, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing. Just post whatever the headline takeaway is at the end of the conference. That is sufficient. Ongoing is intended for stories where thefe are actual major newsworthy developments coming daily, which isn't the case here. There hasn't been a development suitable for ITN yet.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:18, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I believe a significant development is the methane pledge I am about to add to the article - the point being that as most of it does not require approval from the US Congress it is more likely to happen in the USA than some of the other Biden green ambitions https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/02/joe-biden-plan-cut-global-methane-emissions-30-percent Chidgk1 (talk) 09:57, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This methane pledge would be significant too if it were more than just a pledge. We're looking for something that is a commitment comparable to the Paris Agreement. We know that the nations would have to go back and work their legislative bodies to do something, to wit, the Paris Agreement was the end result of one of these COP conferences, hence another argument to wait to see what happens after two weeks. --Masem (t) 12:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I am happy with the Japanese PM as the logo is pretty boring - but could his blurb or caption be changed to say he is attending the conference? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:57, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also against the logo, as the wording would be way to small on an image that size. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:00, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Or maybe our blurb could be extended to say the Japanese PM is attending? Chidgk1 (talk) 15:04, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't that suggest he was, in some way, the "main attraction"? We all know that's Boris Johnson someone else. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not "Nippy"? I don't think it would be misleading. But if we boost his ego maybe he will close coal power plants more quickly! For example add "(one pictured)" after "world leaders" in our blurb. Like Economist captions try to be a bit witty. Chidgk1 (talk) 15:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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I checked and Japan has signed both pledges. So if my proposal is OK with you guys could an admin change the blurb from "World leaders" to "World leaders (one pictured)"? Chidgk1 (talk) 16:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I guess Fumio Kishida will be pleased to get star Wiki billing! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:02, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping If this is OK with you could you change the blurb from "World leaders" to "World leaders (one pictured)"? Also please could you link "deforestation" and "methane emissions". Chidgk1 (talk) 17:30, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If we're going to randomly choose a pic, let's go with David Attenborough Scaramouche33 (talk) 18:25, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also fine by me - but I am not an admin so cannot change it as far as I know Chidgk1 (talk) 18:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He's not a "world leader", very regrettably. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:41, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Japanese general election

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Template:ITN candidate

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