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July 31

[edit]
July 31, 2024 (2024-07-31) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: Anshuman Gaekwad

[edit]
Article: Anshuman Gaekwad (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Indian cricketer and cricket coach. Edits done. Article has shaped up into a decent biography. Rater.js says B-class, but, I think it is atleast a solid C. Appreciate a pair of eyes on this nomination. Ktin (talk) 17:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Attention Required) RD: Paul Bucha

[edit]
Article: Paul Bucha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Task & Purpose
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Vietnam War veteran and Medal of Honor recipient. 240F:7A:6253:1:A80D:4F7:9392:624C (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) September 11 prosecutions

[edit]
Lloyd Austin has now revoked their plea deal, rendering this nomination obsolete. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 00:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: United States v. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Walid bin Attash, and Mustafa al-Hawsawi agree to plead guilty in connection with planning the September 11 attacks (pictured). (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
  • Oppose, the article isn't in good shape and this isn't notable Personisinsterest (talk) 23:45, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, big news. this is the biggest development in this case that has been ongoing for more than 20 years. A guilty plea wasn't expected because there was talk of the government wanting to imprison them for life (or just sentence them to death). President Biden even denied a plea proposal just last September. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 01:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is really nothing, doesn't cap off anything since they've been incarcerated since. Article is also poor quality, far too much proseline and details and not really a narrative approach of a quality article. --Masem (t) 01:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose WTF? This event was 20 years ago. The first thing the article needs to explain is why this is happening at all right now. And a quick glance didn't answer that question for me. A simple explanation for us ignorant masses please, before I can support anything being posted. HiLo48 (talk) 01:56, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @HiLo48 - Various leaders of al-Qaeda and their associates have been imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay since the early days of the Bush administration, on charges that they were the planners behind 9/11 alongside bin Laden. The U.S. government has brought up a criminal case against them and has purposely drawn it out so these terrorists have little to no chance of release. The death penalty or life in prison is what they were seeking, and there were also concerns that exculpatory evidence was being withheld. Today, indeed after 20+ years, a deal seems to have been reached where the terrorists have entered a guilty plea. It is the most significant movement in the case against the 9/11 terrorists in years. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 02:39, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User:That Coptic Guy Thanks for that explanation. I'd suggest that some of what you've written there needs to be right up front in the article this nomination is based on. This is a global encyclopaedia, and a lot of readers will be like me, quite unaware of that background information. HiLo48 (talk) 03:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — The linked article unquestionably needs more work. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opppose There's a better argument to post when they're actually sentenced. Estreyeria (talk) 13:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The pleas seem unreliable as it seems well established that the accused have been subjected to extensive torture rather like Peine forte et dure. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Currently, the article does not indicate that they have actually pled guilty. Certainly we would not post people only "agreeing" to plead guilty. And even if they do plead guilty, they would still not have been sentenced. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:17, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moussa Dadis Camara convicted

[edit]
Article: Moussa Dadis Camara (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of Guinea Moussa Dadis Camara is found guilty of crimes against humanity. (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

The article looks to be well sourced. It has a outdated tag, though I'm not sure this is really necessary. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support fairly notable Ion.want.uu (talk) 18:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per Ion.want.uu, news from Africa rarely reach western audiences, and debatabaly, it is just as significant as highly visible events, such as the recent assassination of Ismail Haniyeh. Article needs some more work, though. Viva Nicolás (talk) 23:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, notable Personisinsterest (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, article still needs plenty of work. Among other issues, there is a tag that has been there for almost 10 years asking for an update on the massacre that the former president is responsible for. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 01:55, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability as per above. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per notability. Scu ba (talk) 17:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Killing of Ismail Haniyeh

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Killing of Ismail Haniyeh (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, is killed in Tehran. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, is assassinated in Tehran.
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
  • Wait Lets get some more detail and flesh out the article. Right now we don't know much at all. It's also worth noting that today/tonight Israel is believed to have killed a senior military commander of Hezbollah in Beirut. Kind of reminds me of the last 10 minutes of The Godfather when all of the family's accounts are settled. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zero need for a separate death article, unless the actual operation that took him down is well documented. Save for a couple of tags, the main bio article is ready to go. (And this is pending confirmation that seems up in the air right now. And to add once more, if true, clearly notable and ITN appropriate beyond the current ongoings) --Masem (t) 04:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Confirmed by Iranian sources, which are likely to be biased more towards Haniyeh and in favor of reporting him alive, but that is not the case. Apart from the legitimacy of this assassination, I strongly disagree with Masem in this regard and believe this should have a standalone article aswell as this marks the highest killing of a Hamas official/leader since the Israel-Hamas war started on October 7 and since the killing of Saleh al Arouri in January. Although it's very early right now to say anything about the killing, I believe as more time passes, more information will eventually be revealed as this is a huge event. Worst case scenario, if the killing is so poorly documented, I still believe it should have a standalone section in some article somewhere. Haniyeh has also held numerous positions other than just leading Hamas. TwistedAxe [contact] 04:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Unlike Killing of Osama bin Laden, where there is a great deal of discussion of the specific operation as well as the past attempts to kill him, all that is in the present article is 50% reaction material, 25% background, and the rest speculation as to the actual event. This is not how we write event articles, but we certainly can present the death as part of the biographical article. --Masem (t) 12:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Right, but I believe we’re still in the early stages and clearing the fog of war. If the dust settles and the assassination is still poorly documented, I’d say we put it under the Death section definitely. If, however, enough information is presented, I’d say we definitely keep the standalone article. TwistedAxe [contact] 14:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      It's not unreasonable to have kept the details in both the bio article as well as at least one of the overarching ongoing articles about this Gaza conflict, particularly the latter because it provides the necessarily context of the larger picture. And then if extensive details of the actual Assassination emerge later then create the standalone. But this reverse way encourages bad splits as the potential of POV forks, as well as poor quality articles in trying to isolate the event from the larger picture without clearly knowing if that split makes sense. This type of approach is contrary to NOTNEWS and doesn't make for high quality ITN material that we are supposed to feature. Masem (t) 14:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality: Article still needs a lot more work in order to qualify for ITN. More information is also needed on the assassination. Support once all these issues have been addressed. Tofusaurus (talk) 04:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - article is still developing/too short, and fog of war is still very much in effect w/ regards to exactly what happened (airstrike vs “raid,” official claims of responsibility, etc). Pretty much all that’s clearly confirmed at this moment is that he was assassinated in the first place. The Kip (contribs) 04:39, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support, per TwistedAxe. The article should be "Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh".--Dr-Taher (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ITN worthy, but wait until more reporting comes in, then we need to add the cause of death to the blurb because the current one is too short Afif Brika1 (talk) 05:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh is just one small section of Ismail Haniyeh that was split out into its own stub for some reason. If this were fixed, then the main article would just need a little proseline clean up before it's ready. It's also developing a list of WP:INDISCRIMINATE trivia in the "responses" section as these articles often do, so that's another barrier. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on the basis of it being a notable event. Kurtis (talk) 05:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 06:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, huge development. Shadow4dark (talk) 07:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb to specify that Haniyeh was the group's political leader rather than military leader. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 09:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, This is an important point to mention. Dr-Taher (talk) 09:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. ToadetteEdit! 10:29, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. On notability. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 10:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support on notability Personisinsterest (talk) 10:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, can we get a picture of him in here? Personisinsterest (talk) 11:57, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Proposed image swap
How come no votes for Oppose as part of ongoing? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 08:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups has been taking place chiefly in the Gaza Strip and southern Israel since 7 October 2023. This outlier took place in Tehran, killing a non-militant. That's the way I see it, anyway. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Robert Fellowes, Baron Fellowes

[edit]
Article: Robert Fellowes, Baron Fellowes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3] [4]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Private secretary to Elizabeth II in the 1990s and brother-in-law of Diana, Princess of Wales. Walco1 (talk) 15:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 30

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July 30, 2024 (2024-07-30) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Fuad Shukr

[edit]
Article: Fuad Shukr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/31/who-isfuad-shukr
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hezbollah commander killed by Israel in Beirut. 2002:8E01:20E3:0:0:0:8E01:20E3 (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Onyeka Onwenu

[edit]
Article: Onyeka Onwenu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Businsess Day (Nigeria)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nigerian singer-songwriter and actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:D057:E125:D731:507A (talk) 06:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Prose could use more footnotes. Place of birth mentioned in the infobox is not sourced nor mentioned in the main prose. Only one item in the Filmography is sourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 15:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Wayanad landslides

[edit]
Article: 2024 Wayanad landslides (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 300 people die as a result of 2024 Wayanad landslides in Wayanad, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Landslides in Wayanad, India kill at least 300 people.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The deadliest landslides in Kerala history kill at least 300 in Wayanad.
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/8/2/bring-him-back-hope-meets-loss-in-indian-villages-hit-by-landslides
Credits:

These landslides got international media attention. Pachu Kannan (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

also, altblurb 2 Personisinsterest (talk) 11:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 Venezuela protests

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Stale. The Kip (contribs) 00:00, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Venezuelan protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests erupt in Venezuela against the Maduro government, after his victory in the 2024 elections that was widely seen as fraudulent. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Venezuela widespread protests erupt as the official 2024 election results are contested.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Widespread protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb III: ​ At least 19 people are killed during widespread protests in Venezuela after Nicolás Maduro claims to have won the 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
Credits:
This should probably be combined with the blurb below, but I think the protests are only becoming larger and larger, and are now international news. Article is making good progress. Libertad! PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This would obviously be better than a blurb only about Maduro's win. Article is small but is expanding. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Perhaps reads more like a chronology, but well updated. And anecdotally, the BBC News report leads with the scale and severity of the protests, only saying "disputed re-election" as context - so I don’t think this needs to be combined with or wait for the election nom (below), it’s sufficiently standalone news. Kingsif (talk) 12:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I know that there are protests going on there, but just listing a bunch of events in a chronological order without anything else that indicates these are all tied together is not a quality article. --Masem (t) 12:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Surely we would combine this blurb with the blurb for the election, so this nomination probably can just be replaced by adding an altblurb to the nom for the presidential election. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have added an alt blurb. Unfortunately I am not (as of this comment) satisfied with the quality of the main article on the elections. But I do think the situation in Venezuela merits a blurb on the main page. The protest article is adequate for posting. I have included an unbolded link to the article on the elections. Hopefully it will continue to improve. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Perhaps a combined blurb could be something like "Widespread protests erupt after Nicolas Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's contested (or "controversial") 2024 presidential election". PtolemyXV (talk) 15:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Added alt3. It can definitely be improved; death toll taken from the article, which could also be improved, especially after another day. Kingsif (talk) 20:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support National election results are noteworthy, and I think the quality of the article will continue to improve given the magnitude of the event. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the blurbs as politically charged, we didn't say it like that for the Rwandan election, even though it is more likely to have had irregularities, judging from the results. Also, wait for the protests to unfold further as they clearly been planned well beforehand, and the article is also largely currently only one-sided. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added alt4. There really is no need to append that the results are disputed - the protests themselves would indicate this. And I'm not sure the usage of "widespread" is needed here. But I do think this is to best, and works as a combined blurb. DarkSide830 (talk) 14:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt4, as it is more neutral and not politically charged i.e. imply which side the protests are on. Wait on article about the protests, as work needs to be done to ensure the article is not all on the anti-Chavista side. Viva Nicolás (talk) 23:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose in general; this article is not being developed, is woefully incomplete, the infobox is mostly OR, and I don't see any chance it is going to improve because of lack of effort. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I hope someone who speaks Spanish is checking this article; I don't have time. I checked only the last line on the current page, and found it wrong. In general, the article isn't mainpage ready and it doesn't appear that anyone is working to get it that way. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:45, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I copied my note on the July 29 listing here. These are some comments I would like to restate:
IMO, I think the only thing in the way of this being posted is the flagrant political bias in both articles. I think I would like to work on this ^ - ^ --Viva Nicolás (talk) 04:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Remember when the 2019 Bolivian general election was overturned by protests when the opposition alleged they were rigged, but the 2020 Bolivian general election run under the coup regime definitively showed otherwise. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The election article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian general election article, while the protests article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian protests article. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: The protests that have erupted due to the controversial and disputed election results Wilfredor (talk) 23:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: William Calley

[edit]
Article: William Calley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American war criminal. Only man convicted in the My Lai Massacre. He died on April 28th but his death was only just reported. Article is in decent shape. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:53, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support! He was the only one convicted in this important event. 109.43.48.31 (talk) 13:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We'll post anyone important enough to have a Wikipedia page; we only assess article quality here. Bremps... 15:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 29

[edit]
July 29, 2024 (2024-07-29) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

  • At least two people are killed and as many as 100 others are injured when a passenger train carrying 800 people collides with a Kamaz truck near Volgograd, Russia, and partially derails. (Al Arabiya)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Closed) Malarndirri McCarthy

[edit]
Consensus for a cabinet appointment will not develop. Stephen 23:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Malarndirri McCarthy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ appointment as Minister for Indigenous Australians - a significant appointment following last year's failed Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum - ongoing recent news about her recent appearance at the Garma Festival with the PM (Post)
News source(s): https://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/media-releases/commissioner-katie-kiss-welcomes-malarndirri-mccarthy-new-minister https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/malarndirri-mccarthy-steps-up-as-new-minister-for-indigenous-australians/pjdvtldhy
Credits:

Article updated
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Chino XL

[edit]
Article: Chino XL (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American rapper and actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Robert Banas

[edit]
Article: Robert Banas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American dancer and actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Deadpool & Wolverine

[edit]
A consensus to post this will not develop. Too niche. Not sure if we posted the last Avengers movie when it broke the overall record. Closing now. --Tone 13:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Deadpool & Wolverine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Deadpool & Wolverine, starring Ryan Reynolds (pictured), breaks box office records for an R-rated movie in its opening weekend (Post)
News source(s): CNN, France24, Hollywood Reporter,LA Times, NYT, Straits Times, Variety
Credits:

Article updated

This has been a hit with our readers too as the top read article for several straight days now, beating the Olympics, the elections and the rest. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose ITN is not for these types of news. First of all, we do not post News items just because they are the most read one, that goes here. Second, R-rating is just a US specific rating and a large of readers probably do not know about it and therefore this record holds little value to them. Lastly, it is only the 6th largest opening in the US overall and around 12th biggest worldwide opening for any movie, so hardly a groundbreaking record. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not the type of business news we post, and to state this yet again, we do not use page views as a metric of whether we should post at ITN in the first place. --Masem (t) 11:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Estreyeria (talk) 13:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Prince of Punjab. This isn't the overall record, which is inevitably broken due to inflation. This is like saying there is a new tallest building in the world...well, the tallest that Americans under 17 can enter with adult supervision. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) New UNESCO World Heritage Sites

[edit]
No consensus to post a tabular list without a narrative. Stephen 23:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: List of World Heritage Sites by year of inscription#2024 (46th session) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The World Heritage Committee in New Delhi selected 24 new sites for the global List of World Heritage Sites, with the Schwerin Castle in Germany (pictured) among them. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 24 new sites were selected for the global List of World Heritage Sites during the 46th session in New Delhi, India.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The World Heritage Committee designates 24 new UNESCO World Heritage Sites during its 46th session in New Delhi, India (Schwerin Castle in Germany pictured).
News source(s): UNESCO DW EuroNews
Credits:

Article updated

The newly selected UNESCO World Heritage Sites are normally featured in the News here. Example can be left out or swapped, I think it is usually a wonderful addition. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, if it is just about that very detail, how about just changing it in the article and we're good. :) -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Venezuelan presidential election

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 23:53, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Venezuelan presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nicolás Maduro is announced as the winner of the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Venezuela, incumbent President Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of the presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Incumbent Nicolás Maduro is re-elected President of Venezuela for a third term.
Alternative blurb III: ​ After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
News source(s): NY Times BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nicolás Maduro has been announced the winner of the 2024 election. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 04:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not Ready As noted by others, the article has a number of issues that will require some work before this can be posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALTBLURB with "declared winner" language used for dubious elections This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt disappointing. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 05:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb language used and oppose for citations needed - I caution users to tame their chauvinism. Western media is very obviously biased on this matter. For decades, the West has sought regime change in this nation and election after election we see the West attempt to discredit elections in socialist countries in the Global South. It is frankly disgusting that Wikipedia is joining in this rather than critically assessing our sources for reliability. How many times must we watch as the US manufactures consent for a coup before we realize that we can't trust most US sources on this issue. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Really? The second citation is British.... not American. --RockstoneSend me a message! 05:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are funny if you think that makes difference. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, it's outrageous to refer to the BBC as a "US source", and it makes you look very bad. Honestly, your entire comment is outrageous and doesn't serve to help the project in any manner. You should consider striking it. --RockstoneSend me a message! 15:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of the authenticity of the election, these discussion pages are not meant to be used to petty bickering. We will use the source deemed most reliable, and whether or not it fits with your stance on the subject, be it politically or as an external perspective/opinion, is not to be taken into consideration. Let's do our best not to become Reddit, thank you. Daneellis114 (talk) 23:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah best to close the discussion here PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For about the 50th time in the last month to various users, personal commentary doesn’t help this project. The Kip (contribs) 06:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This was objectively a sham election by all reliable accounts apart from the Maduro regime, stop pushing POV. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any independent sources to back up your entire comment? If not, you yourself are guilty of pushing a pro-Maduro POV. Tube·of·Light 14:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC is not a reliable source but the Venezuelan regime somehow is PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Um, hate to be that guy, but countering chauvinism or "chauvinism" with what presents as chauvinism itself isn't helpful. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb with "declared" due to the dispute. Article seems well written and cited. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb unless evidence of fraud emerges (which it may, of course) PtolemyXV (talk) 05:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb, it’s not just “the west” disputing the results but the opposition themselves. The Kip (contribs) 06:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The proposed blurbs don't adequately convey the phony nature of the process. And the article is in a poor state with a lot of rambling, citations needed and tense errors. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Repeatedly has been shown tht we're not going to try to call out sham elections or their ilk at ITN. We can use language how we say who won that implies that it was not democratic win, like we have done for the last Russian election, but it becomes a NPOV problem to suggest in the ITN blurb if the election is a sham; that's a topic left for the article in question. — Masem (t) 11:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      That's nonsense because numerous editors have supported the alt blurb as a standard signal to the reader that the election was not free and fair. So, we do regularly call out such sham elections in that way but it's too subtle -- we should be more direct rather than dropping hints.
      In any case, there are still the quality issues which are not resolved.
      Andrew🐉(talk) 20:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article has two cn tags, two orange tags, one yellow tag and result section is empty. Therefore, it is no way near ready to be posted. I support the Alt Blurb when it is ready to be psoted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, elections for the executive where there is no change in office are now also ITNR, per this discussion. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are multiple orange tags, and the endorsements section is missing a lot of citations. Will support the alt when ready. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait The National Electoral Council (Venezuela) has been offline and/or has a DNS problem since at least the last day or so, although some archived snapshots e.g. 28 July are available. As of the 2010s and 2020s, the electoral results coordinated by any national election commission, except for the internet-poorest countries, are normally published in full detail on the commission's website. Whether the reason for the website non-availability is attacks such as DDOS or tech incompetence or a desire to hide the results, the fact is that by the current standards of a national election, the results in the sense of open data are not yet published. There is currently only a "believe-us" XXth century style "result" announced by the CNE so far. The heads of many American states, such as Gabriel Boric, are putting pressure on the CNE to get the full results published. Waiting for a more serious release of the full results would make sense. Boud (talk) 21:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Along the lines of what Boud said, in lay terms, the election result hasn't actually been called, Maduro has just said he's won. The opposition has not conceded, there are no results to show (some apparently have fully gone missing) - the last update from even Maduro's own commission is that vote counts will be coming soon. Kingsif (talk) 21:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose For now, as the results themselves are still unavailable in the article. Granted, the results aren't gonna be super shocking. Dyaquna (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Reliable sources are essentially unanimous in describing the election as neither free or fair. Therefore, Maduro being declared the winner is about as surprising as "water is wet". KlayCax (talk) 00:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait There should be something, however it ought to mention the dispute. This is major news.
Metallurgist (talk) 01:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update of blurb needed: While waiting for the CNE to announce the full results, the 2024 Venezuelan protests (probably not the best name, since there were probably other protests in Venezuela in 2024) are already 11 kb of source text just 5 hours after being created, so should be integrated into the blurb. Things could change fast depending on if/when the CNE publishes the full results or continues to refuse to publish them, so further updates might be needed. Boud (talk) 01:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Suggest nominating the protests as their own blurb. If the photo can be confirmed as free, it's also really good to go in the box. Kingsif (talk) 02:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because the election is dispute, protests are ongoing, and there are multiple orange tags. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless the blurb states clearly that it was rigged and that it sparked massive protests. Plus, the article has certain problems. If these are solved, take this one as a support. --Bedivere (talk) 06:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb2. That thing with words like "announced" or "declared" in dubious elections simply doesn't work, and I don't think our readers get the difference that a group of editors here wants to convey. Simply use "re-elected" and let the readers visit the article to find out the details. All winners are "announced" or "declared" no matter if the election was free and fair.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Most readers don't click through to the article. The main page gets about 5 million views daily but the number of readers that click though ITN links is only about 10K -- a tiny fraction. So, most readers will glance at or skim the main page and will just see the headline and the grinning picture of the tyrant/dictator/president-for-life. So, we should make the headline plain and clear if we run one because that's all most readers will see. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Why do you think that "announced" or "declared" makes it clear that the winner is a dictator or that the election was not free and fair? Why not extend the blurb to say that "X was re-elected in a dubious election"?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The result is disputed; for example, see Venezuelan opposition says it has proof its candidate defeated President Maduro in disputed election. In such circumstances of claim and counter-claim, it's not our job to pick a winner. All we might say currently is that there is unrest following a disputed election. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that the protests should be the main story now. My point was that the words "announced" or "declared" wouldn't make any difference. If we post that Maduro was "announced winner", we practically accept the announcement of the National Electoral Council, so we practically side with them and pick Maduro as winner. Note that the opposition rejects outright what the National Electoral Council announced as a result of the election.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Since the focus is now on protests, I suggest alternative blurb:
After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela. BilboBeggins (talk) 12:40, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a good blurb, but the article quality for the protests is not there yet. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sources do not currently show which is more notable: the election or the protests, so putting both in bold would be better justified. Boud (talk) 13:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this, but both articles currently are not of sufficient quality. So if one is improved before the other, we could just make that the target to start out. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb IV looking like this is devolving into civil conflict, at least 11 dead in protests so far. Scu ba (talk) 17:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 28

[edit]
July 28, 2024 (2024-07-28) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: Alma Powell

[edit]
Article: Alma Powell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American audiologist. 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk) 06:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Francine Pascal

[edit]
Article: Francine Pascal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): People, New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American author and creator of Sweet Valley High series. 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk) 06:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Doug Creek

[edit]
Article: Doug Creek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Americano Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American baseball player. 240F:7A:6253:1:7072:B26A:4473:10DD (talk) 06:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article has only three sources, needs more citations. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Reyes Moronta

[edit]
Article: Reyes Moronta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 04:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship final

[edit]
Article: 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Gaelic football, the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship concludes with Armagh defeating Galway in the final. (Post)
News source(s): (The Irish Times)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Goevenonme (talk) 00:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good enough to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Anderson

[edit]
Article: John Anderson (television personality) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

UK Gladiators referee and British Olympic coach. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 21:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark

[edit]
Article: Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, The Independent, and others.
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

He was a member of the former Greek royal family, a writer, a historian, a first cousin of Prince Philip and the last surviving great-grandson of Christian IX. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait List of works section needs more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 27

[edit]
July 27, 2024 (2024-07-27) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

  • Eight people are killed and five others are injured when a vehicle hits pedestrians in Changsha, Hunan, China. The perpetrator is arrested. (AP)

Sports

(Posted) RD: Murray Costello

[edit]
Article: Murray Costello (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hockey Canada NHL.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Canadian ice hockey player, executive, and administrator. Article looks fine. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, article is good quality
Personisinsterest (talk) 15:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Edna O'Brien

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Edna O'Brien (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Irish Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Appears to be well-sourced. Mooonswimmer 18:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ready it is of great quality, marking it ready. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the photos that you mentioned were for political leaders where the nomination fell under ITNR (though the ones for Biden and Trump were not), so it is not at all surprising that they were featured. And all of them were for blurbs, so by virtue of them being blurbed, of course their picture will be featured. Unless you can show that female leaders are being deliberately left out of ITN, the claim that this has anything to do with systemic bias is completely unfounded. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Majdal Shams attack

[edit]
Article: Majdal Shams attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A rocket attack allegedly launched by Hezbollah on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights kills at least 14 civilians. (Post)
News source(s): BBCTimes of IsraelHindustan TimesPress TV IranReutersRussia TodayAl Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated

Current official death toll is at 12 as of time of writing. Although the scale of this attack is dwarfed daily by IDF bombardments of Gaza, I propose that we cover this particular story because:

  • It is the single deadliest attack on Israeli civilians since October 7.[6]
  • It is the single deadliest spillover incident of the war since inception.
  • The attack was carried out in the context of a conflict with Hezbollah, which would make it separate from the Israel-Gaza war itself.
  • Attacks by other regional entities (Iran, the Houthis, and Hezbollah itself) have not previously resulted in this number of casualties during the conflict.
  • The article is expanded, well-written, and of a suitable length, with no citation needed tags.

For the above reasons, I hereby nominate this entry.

Wait - Posting this may be a problem as pointed out above, as it naturally invites comparisons to civilian casualties in Gaza (though this could be considered more notable as there are less Israeli civilian deaths, it's still a POV problem). I think it's best to wait to see what the Israeli response is; if this escalates the conflict with Hezbollah it's definitely enough to post, but until then Oppose PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Wolfgang Rihm

[edit]
Article: Wolfgang Rihm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs work, maybe the "works" section could be split out? Natg 19 (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Grimes2 (talk) 08:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 26

[edit]
July 26, 2024 (2024-07-26) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Lionel Elika Fatupaito

[edit]
Article: Lionel Elika Fatupaito (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Post, New Strait Times, CBS News, ESPN, Daily Mail, The New York Times, The Independent, The Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

RD: Janet Andrewartha

[edit]
Article: Janet Andrewartha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7], [8]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 07:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose unsourced Filmography. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 France railway arson attacks

[edit]
Article: 2024 France railway arson attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A series of arson attacks damages several lines of the French high-speed railway system. (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

pbp 20:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I think it's best to have this as a separate blurb as the attacks haven't been linked to the Olympics (though they likely were related). In the news PrecariousWorlds (talk) 21:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Notable-ish but no one was killed or injured and I don't think it's significant enough to be posted
Personisinsterest (talk) 22:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There is no reason to be linking to a useless, poorly written article about a few arsons when we have an actual article about the transportation that needs to be expanded. The whole point of Wikipedia is to provide summarized information in context, not to rewrite blow-by-blow accounts of each random thing separately every time you refresh the website of the New York Times. Will switch to support if this is redone as an update to Wikipedia content to reflect current events as ITN posts are supposed to be. And as a side note, it would be great if the closer could disregard any !votes about casualties since that's not a metric of significance on Wikipedia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If we're talking disregarding votes, maybe yours should be disregarded because you're using it as a soapbox to complain about the condition of a different article pbp 03:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Then you may wish to reread what I said. The only time I mentioned another article was when I suggested a merge target for this one. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not some random accident like a landslide in the boondocks. It's multiple synchronised attacks targeting significant infrastructure of a major nation. It is thus comparable with the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines or the 9-11 attacks in the US. It seems to have been scheduled for the start of the Olympics but its impact goes beyond that as this is the start of the French holiday season when much of the country plans to travel. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is thus comparable with the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines or the 9-11 attacks in the US. What? An attack with no casualties is comparable to an attack with thousands of casualties that led to the War on terror? Gödel2200 (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you're referring to Ethiopia when you say "the boondocks", that doesn't make what's happening there insignificant Dyaquna (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that the sabotage was not a "random thing" or Act of God. It was a coordinated attack in multiple locations. As these things go, it's quite unusual for there to be a synchronised attack in so many locations. 9-11 targeted three locations while this attack targeted five. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support halting services for over 800K people feels quite notable to me. This is quite a large attack, regardless of the lack of casualties. I understand the Crowdstrike incident is on a way grander scale than this will ever be, but as it is still an event that caused a halting on travel systems, we didn't stop that from being posted from a lack of deaths or injuries. CaptainGalaxy 23:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The attack has no casualties, and the article does not indicate that the impact is incredibly severe. In fact, the only 'impact' listed in the impact section was the British PM having to change his plans. Also the article is barely more than a stub. Gödel2200 (talk) 23:52, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's a common lead headline today: "Olympics sabotaged ... Hunt for Olympic saboteurs ... Far Left suspected ...". The disruption will continue throughout the weekend and its impact is countrywide -- much greater than some single accident such as the plane crash in Nepal. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per Andrew and CaptainGalaxy. Centuries123 (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Notable for sure, picked up a lot of coverage initially but doesn't rise to meet many of the secondary principles listed in WP:ITNSIGNIF in my opinion. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:27, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olympic Opening Ceremony

[edit]
Article: 2024 Summer Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Paris, the opening ceremony of the 2024 Summer Olympics begins. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open after an arson attack on French railways.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Opening ceremony isn't technically done yet, but I figure it's better to get a little ahead now that it's well underway. DecafPotato (talk) 18:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support but wait. This is certainly a event to report on, but we should wait until the grammatical errors get resolved. MetaTalks (talk) 20:55, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
its technically "open" after Macron declared it open. MetaTalks (talk) 21:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, notable and the articles are fine Personisinsterest (talk) 22:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternate blurb, if the arson attacks were connected to the Olympics Dyaquna (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I just skimmed a bit of the article and it was nowhere near ready as I immediately noticed several tense and grammatical errors. The article seems to be full of plans which may or may not have actually gone to schedule and it has no reaction or reception section to provide an assessment of what actually happened. Also, as noted below, the news coverage today has focussed on security and sabotage issues such as 2024 France railway arson attack and that seems more interesting. The appalling weather might warrant some attention though. For example,

    Unfortunate that the pre filmed parts of this ceremony were done on a bright, clear day. It is making the jumps from live to video sections jarring in person and presumably on TV too. Rain hammering down now. Worried about the athletes! Three hours of this on a roofless boat and some of them are sleeveless. Going to be a shame to cancel the 100m final because the field was decimated by an outbreak of the sniffles.

I'm still watching and was quite curious about the way they presented "Imagine". I find that we have a remarkably detailed article about piano burning and didn't realise that was a thing. Was that supposed to be the Olympic flame?
And now there's a ghostly horse rider. Curiouser and curiouser... Andrew🐉(talk) 18:50, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree with Andrew that to post this without noting the arson attack just prior would be a problem. But that can be fixed in the blurb. However, the opening ceremony article is nowhere close for what we've seen in the past. If we are going to post that arson article, that also needs expansion. Finally, should the quality improvements delay posting the opening ceremony for some time, we still try to go ahead and post the Olympics to ongoing, along with Chronological summary of the 2024 Summer Olympics, but that latter article is mostly unsourced at this point, which is not good either. --Masem (t) 18:47, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem and @Andrew Davidson, I've added an alt blurb unbolding the opening ceremony article and adding the arson attack, would that be better? DecafPotato (talk) 19:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, the event isn't over yet, we've yet to get the reactions and full news coverage and so it's too soon to finalise a blurb. And my objection was to the quality of the article not the blurb. The nominator hasn't made a single edit to the nominated article and so should be disqualified for a false start. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm rather neutral on whether or not the arson needs to be included in the blurb- it's not as if this was a terrorist attack that led to deaths- but either way, the article is in pretty bad shape and is nowhere near ready to be posted. -- Kicking222 (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose mentioning the arson. The connection to the Games seems dubious at best. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and altblurb2 - proposed new blurb without the arson attack, and without bolding the opening ceremony. This post should be about the start of the Paris Olympics. They've started now. Let's post. Main article is fine. The opening ceremony article can be filled up separately, but is not crucial - nobody participates in the Olympics just for the opening ceremony.Khuft (talk) 20:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 Oppose placing the arson attack in the blurb, as it does not seem to have had any effects on the opening ceremony. Currently the article for the opening ceremony has major sourcing issues, but we can instead link to the overall article for the olympics. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, but oppose including the arson attacks in the blurb. The opening ceremony took place without any disruptions caused by those attacks (the rain made bigger problems than the attacks). That event should’ve been relevant had it directly affected this one, which is clearly not the case.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT2 but oppose on quality. I don't personally believe the arson attacks to be overly significant, and their effects on the games has been minimal outside of transportation delays. All of the said, the Opening Ceremony article is in brutal shape - multiple orange tags and nowhere near enough prose on the events. The Kip (contribs) 22:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT2 and put it in ongoing when it reaches the bottom. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 02:37, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are quite a few sections of tables that lack a single reference. Stephen 03:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I did actually look at this but saw that there are one or more references for those tables in the prose ahead of them (like with the venue section). It would be better if those sources could be repeated in the table header or otherwise some position closer to the tables to be clear where the info is coming from, but the sourcing is there. — Masem (t) 12:51, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt3 Opening article has too many problems so let's just not post it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:49, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality issues (notwithstanding ITNR). Too many CN tags on it. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 12:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • support it is hugely IN THE NEWS. not to mention the controversy over the transgender stuff, but that's an aside. then the chronology can be in the ongoing.Sportsnut24 (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, we've listed the Olympics and world cup several times in the past and there's plenty of coverage of it. No reason not to list it Desfuria (talk) 23:31, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I will note that I have already added the Olympics as an ongoing on a temporary basis (as that article is fine, see the ongoing nom below) while there's still debate on the blurb and the quality of the opening ceremonies (which has always been posted in the past, and has always been of high quality, I don't know why this is not at that point by this case). Should we post a blurb, then the ongoing should be temporarily removed then. --Masem (t) 23:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question What needs doing at 2024 Summer Olympics opening ceremony to make it post-able? Kingsif (talk) 03:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The orange tags need to get resolved. Many statements and sections are missing sources. Natg 19 (talk) 03:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It pains me to say but Oppose. It should be ready by now, but surprisingly isn't. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:28, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Altblurb3 - let's not mention the Opening Ceremony then As it seems we won't be able to solve the issues with the opening ceremony article before this gets stale (and, let's face it, it's Monday now - the opening ceremony was on Friday), why not post just the Summer Olympics article itself? That one seems fine, as it's already featured on Ongoing. Khuft (talk) 15:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, this should've been posted but its too late now Personisinsterest (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 25

[edit]
July 25, 2024 (2024-07-25) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

(Haaretz)

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

RD: Vikramabahu Karunaratne

[edit]
Article: Vikramabahu Karunaratne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Sri Lankan politician, activist and scientist. Titanciwikitalk/contrib 0:58, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

RD: Martin Indyk

[edit]
Article: Martin Indyk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Mooonswimmer 22:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose three cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

pertinent to the ongoing news stuff. i dunno if you mention that on these things.Sportsnut24 (talk) 20:25, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to give a few pointers if you clarify what it is you're confused about. Bremps... 16:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 24

[edit]
July 24, 2024 (2024-07-24) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Lewis H. Lapham

[edit]
Article: Lewis H. Lapham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The editor of Harper's Magazine from 1976 until 1981, and from 1983 until 2006. Founder of Lapham's Quarterly. Death announced 24 July. Thriley (talk) 18:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ray Lawler

[edit]
Article: Ray Lawler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.watoday.com.au/national/victoria/summer-of-the-seventeenth-doll-playwright-ray-lawler-dies-aged-103-20240726-p5jwxw.html
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian playright, writer of Summer of the Seventeenth Doll HiLo48 (talk) 09:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Works section needs sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jasper Fire

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 23:47, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Jasper wildfire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A wildfire destroys the town of Jasper, Alberta, in Jasper National Park. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, CBC, Toronto Star
Credits:
So far, it appears no one has died due to proactive evacuations, and as such this might not meet ITN's death threshold for disasters. However, Jasper is a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and Canada's second-most prestigious national park--this is like Yosemite burning, destroying the park's infrastructure. The article still needs work, and officials still do not know the full extent of the damage. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:38, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but Wait I would agree with the significance, but the Jasper article barely mentions the wildfires, and the Wildfire article itself is just a stub... (And minor note: Jasper National Part is a UNESCO World Heritage site, not the town of Jasper itself). Khuft (talk) 21:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Given the number of fires up and down the whole PNW, it would better to have an overarching article on these rather than focusing on one. — Masem (t) 21:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It wasn't the whole town. Footage shows the entire east side intact. It was maybe 20% of the buildings in the town. 104.171.53.110 (talk) 02:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per Masem. It would be better to link to an overarching article for fires in North America. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per MtPenguinMonster. 66.251.117.188 (talk) 06:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per all of the above. This is potentially notable as it has caused mass evacuations, but it's borderline and the standalone article is on shaky grounds. Also note that "death threshold" is just a bludgeon sometimes used to gatekeep the area and shouldn't be given any credibility. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Another summer in the northern hemisphere, another summer of wildfires. So far these are not extraordinary nor have they caused anything that is not unfortunately routine. And the town, as stated above, has not been completely destroyed. _-_Alsor (talk) 06:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Albertan here. It was very sad and tragic to hear about the destruction caused by the fire in Jasper. Unfortunately, this is pretty local news and wildfires like this occur every year, and only about a third of the buildings were ruined so its not like the entire town was destroyed. If something like this happened again somewhere more well known like Banff, or if the entire town was decimated, I would support it. Hungry403 (talk) 02:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Don't know if I would call this "local news" considering it's even reported in Swedish national news. Yakikaki (talk) 04:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Wildfires like this do happen every year, and they haven’t even destroyed the whole town. An overarching article for these types of wildfires would be better. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:C5B3:EA0E:CA4:CDBE (talk) 18:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Leo Burke

[edit]
Article: Leo Burke (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sescoops
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. It's a GA article too. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Randy Kehler

[edit]
Article: Randy Kehler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Greenfield Recorder
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American pacifist, tax resister, and social justice advocate. Death announced 24 July. Thriley (talk) 21:25, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I have doubts that this article would even hold up if challenged for deletion given notability, though I know that isn't part of the criteria for RD. Either way the article is a really basic and doesn't establish why this person is any more notable than the other thousands of draft evaders from that era... the article should at least articulate that before it is ready for posting.RachelTensions (talk) 04:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posting something likely not needing a Wikipedia article at all on the main page is not a good idea and can probably stand as its own oppose rationale. Bremps... 07:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kehler meets GNG with press going back decades. Thriley (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not sure if I agree - the article and its sources seem to indicate his only real special notability was the squabble with the IRS over taxes, which at least to me falls under WP:BLP1E. The Kip (contribs) 15:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There’s been coverage of him for decades. Plenty of source material exists that could be used to improve the article that isn’t currently used. Thriley (talk) 16:14, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...well? As it stands right now the article does nothing to convey why he was anything notable as someone who evaded the draft and didn't pay his taxes. And for that reason it isn't suitable yet even for RD. RachelTensions (talk) 16:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support once the tag is removed. Nominating a 14 year old BLP for AfD on the occasion of the subject's death seems a least a bit in bad faith. Nevertheless, the voting at this point is a unanimous keep and that is unlikely to change, as the nom is completely baseless. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Typhoon Gaemi

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Typhoon Gaemi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Gaemi leaves at least 16 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Typhoon Gaemi leaves at least 76 people dead.
News source(s): CNN, GMA Integrated News,
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The typhoon causes flooding across Metro Manila, Philippines, and has garnered widespread news coverage here in the country.

Nepal plane crash

[edit]
Article: 2024 Saurya Airlines Bombardier CRJ200 crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Bombardier CRJ-200 crashes during takeoff at Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, Nepal, killing eighteen on board (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ An airplane crash in Nepal kills eighteen on board.
News source(s): (Reuters)
Credits:
Support but wait Good work on obtaining a free image. Let's see if there are any revelations on why the airplane crashed. Bremps... 06:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unless a notable cause of the crash is established, I do not think this is notable enough. Airplane crashes are relatively common in Nepal. For precedent, see the Nepal Airlines Flight 183 (which had the same number of fatalities as this crash) nomination from 2014, which was not posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Somewhat perplexing calls for a wait until the cause is established. That's not how anything has worked ever, not ITN, not plane crashes. Are we going to keep waiting for the full report to come out in 2026? They've already said they don't know what happened. Why not just straightforward oppose since this is going to be stale way before they are going to say more? Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, what I'm saying is that unless a notable cause of the crash is established, I do not think this should be posted. I have updated my comment to specify this. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: 2024 Summer Olympics

[edit]
Article: 2024 Summer Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

Nominator's comments: While the games formally opens on the 26th, the events have started in the last few hours. I think we should get it posted by the 26th so that people who search for the games will find it on the main page. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Agree with nom that we should try to post it early. Currently the list of non-competitive venues appears to be unsourced. Gödel2200 (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ongoing and initial blurb Article quality seems good enough for an initial post; will only expand from here. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. Article seems to already be in fine shape, agree with nom re: events already underway. The Kip (contribs) 17:22, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the opening ceremony on Friday, which we will blurb per WP:ITNR#Multi-sport_events. Preliminary rounds in a small subset of sports aren't the story here. Modest Genius talk 17:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting now. I think it's irrelevant that the Opening Ceremony hasn't happened yet - the games are, in fact, ongoing as of now. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait none of these pre opening events will give final medals, it's just events that have multiple rounds that take more time to complete. Post the opening ceremonies and then when that rolls off, add to ongoing. Masem (t) 17:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also whole this will get to ongoing eventually, we will have four (effectively seven) items in it and will overflow to a third line. We should consider a removal such as the Sudan conflict at least while the Olympics are on there, and then read it afterwards, only as a maintenance issue, not for permanent removal. Masem (t) 18:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the opening ceremony, then it can be posted in ongoing alongside the blurb. Estreyeria (talk) 18:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting even before the opening ceremony. The chronological summary is perhaps a better target article.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ITNR doesn't dictate exactly how we post this, and based on comments above I think it would be acceptable to put the chronological summary into ongoing now, wait to nom/post the opening ceremony on the 26th, and then add the main article to ongoing. And FWIW it's not just preliminary rounds, all of the rugby sevens games except the final will be played before the opening ceremony. Kingsif (talk) 20:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd actually suggest to run a blurb with the opening ceremony, wait until it rolls off the ITN, and then put it to ongoing. The opening ceremony is a big thing on itself. Provided the article is ok and all that. --Tone 20:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's what we usually do, right? Kingsif (talk) 22:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that's usual. Stephen 22:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That’s basically a very bad practice. In case there are very few blurbs to post in the next two weeks, this may not get posted onto ongoing at all. So, this should appear in ongoing independently from the blurb on the opening ceremony.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If we post the opening blurb and no significant number of blurbs come around to knock it out, we can either prematurely send it to ongoing, or change the blurb away from the opening ceremony to just saying they are ongoing. We want a link to the games in the ITN box for the two weeks the games are officially open, it doesn't matter if it's a blurb or ongoing. Masem (t) 23:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not convinced by that reasoning at all. The opening ceremony is one thing and the progress of the Olympics is another thing. That's why we should post a link to the games in the blurb on the opening ceremony and a link to the chronological summary in ongoing. Nothing precludes us from doing this. After all, it's the largest recurrent event in the world. Waiting to post onto ongoing is the biggest misservice that we can offer to our readers who wouldn't have a direct link to the event summary on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is still no reason that we cannot figure out a blurb for the opening ceremonies that includes a link to the games proper and perhaps even to the event summary. — Masem (t) 13:31, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the Opening Ceremony, then it'll be a support. I understand that it technically is going on currently, but still, the opening ceremony is the "beginning" of the Summer Olympics, even if it isn't official. TomMasterRealTALK 23:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per above. The Opening Ceremony is scheduled to be on the 26th, I think we should wait for that first (despite some Olympic events starting earlier). Officially, the Olympics will start tomorrow, surely this proposed ongoing item can be deferred for (at least) 24 hours more before it gets posted to that section. Vida0007 (talk) 15:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just post Not at the moment I am writing this but the admins might be seeing "wait" as the most recent comment by the time the Games actually starts. Bremps... 16:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To quote an external source: "There's never been a show like this! Opening ceremony is spectacular" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) Khuft (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
YMMV. The New York Times lead headlines are currently: Opening Ceremony Floats Down Seine; Paris Investigates Rail Sabotage The ceremony is being held under rainy skies. Earlier, coordinated attacks disrupted high-speed train links to Paris, delaying over a million travelers. The rail sabotage was carefully planned to cause maximum disruption on what was supposed to be a day of glory for France. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm looking forward to Los Angeles topping this in 2028 then. Khuft (talk) 21:25, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support ongoing, even if concurrent with a news blurb (which may or may not mention the arson). I don't see a reason why it can't have both at the same time. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 10:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Immediate Support. The games have opened with competition already in progress. In fact, the first medals have already been awarded. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 13:59, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we get this posted into ongoing? As the above editor said, the games have already started. It seems like the opening ceremony article is in bad shape, so that may not get posted for a while. Natg 19 (talk) 19:10, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have added this article to ongoing, though if the opening ceremony one is improved, then it should be temporarily taken off. However, I have not added the Chronology article at this time as it is in far worse state from a sourcing standpoint (I know it will be filled with results, but the planned events should still be sourced before then). --Masem (t) 19:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I took the time to add the six missing refs (for the pre-opening day summaries) and have added the chronological article as the timeline to the ongoing — Masem (t) 23:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Hamzah Haz

[edit]
Article: Hamzah Haz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Media Indonesia Bloomberg CGTN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Vice President, article is good enough. Tensa Februari (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about whether the death is widely covered, it's about whether the article is up to par. Bremps... 16:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 23

[edit]
July 23, 2024 (2024-07-23) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Closed) Beijing Declaration

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 23:45, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Beijing Declaration (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Fourteen Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, agree to commit to an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, AP News, DW, NY Times, BBC, Reuters,
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 04:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, article is in really poor shape. Will switch to support if it's properly cited and the "reactions" section is condensed down into a proper encyclopedic summary of the main points without indiscriminate trivia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There have been so many such accords that we have a category for them: Intra-Palestinian peace efforts. This one seems unlikely to be more successful and has no concrete timetable. The long list of factions makes amusing reading though -- see precedent... Andrew🐉(talk) 08:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It is unclear what will make this agreement more than just an agreement, and actually have real effects. Also, the article is basically a big list of reactions, with a bunch of unsourced statements. What we should post is if the envisioned government actually forms. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:13, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Article is mostly reactions at this point, and this isn't the first time there's been an attempt at a unity government. The Kip (contribs) 22:33, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Hottest day in modern history

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
In something that climate change will ironically rob us of, WP:SNOW. The Kip (contribs) 17:31, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 in climate change (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Copernicus Climate Change Service declares July 21 the hottest day in modern history, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/world-registers-hottest-day-ever-recorded-july-21-monitor-says-2024-07-23/
Credits:
GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, oppose on quality. The hottest day in modern history so far! Sadly, it's pretty much a yearly occurrence by now, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets discussed for ITN/R. Last year's record was mostly supported, although it didn't end up being posted mostly because of quality issues. This time, the article hasn't been updated yet (and isn't linked in the blurb), so that should be done first. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If this is going to be a yearly occurrence, I would oppose posting for that reason. Hottest day ever is merely trivia. Natg 19 (talk) 23:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't think any of the three linked articles are suitable for bolding. Bremps... 23:31, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Without action, a record likely to broken within the year, and its not appropriate to keep posting that over and over. Obviously critical for trying to promote the need to fight climate change and the like, but its also along the lines of fearmongering; if we are going to post stories like this, I would rather go for anything that qualifies a much longer period of time (like I'm sure there were stories of 2023 being the hottest year on record). --Masem (t) 00:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — Per Masem. I object to including any climate blurbs because it is a continuous record; Earth is warming every single day, month, and year. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I get the point that it's a continuous record and climate changes every day, but I'm wondering what kind of news related to climate change we should post. There are tons of news in reliable sources on the topic virtually on a daily basis that we don't post. At the end, if it's really a never-ending ongoing story, just post it there and keep it for good. According to the mainstream science, the estimated global losses as a result of the climate change are many times greater than the effects of the military conflicts currently posted onto ongoing combined. Another option is to put a box on the main page like we did for the COVID-19 pandemic, which would include links to relevant articles related to climate change.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – The update to the article is insignificant. I'm honestly hoping that at some point we can feature a climate change-related update like this, but we'd need a few paragraphs talking about why the specific date/week/month is so standout. Combined with a deadly heatwave in many regions I can see this work, for example. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. This record is likely to be broken again within the year. In addition, the update to the article in question is one line. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:04, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Monday, July 22, is now the hottest day on record, surpassing Sunday. CBS News Johndavies837 (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The content's obviously not up to scratch, but I reject the notion we shouldn't post this merely because we expect to have to do it again in a year. That doesn't stop us posting the Superbowl, or the Nobel Prizes, or the Academy Awards every year. Shorter-term increases - as we just saw for the 22nd - are likely to be soon enough that they could be handled with a blurb update. —Cryptic 11:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • If we were reporting that 2023 was the hottest year on record, and then the same for 2024, and 2025, that would be less an issue. Single day records however could be more frequent (as Johndavies points out, this story is already outdated) and can also reflect spikes in weather patterns. That's why a long-term average, that normalizes out all such spikes, is far better to be a metric we consider. (Also, those recurring stories are because there are extensive articles that are developed for each occurance, while this is just an update to an existing article) — Masem (t) 12:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Single-day records tend to be clustered around July at the peak of northern hemisphere summer (something about having more landmasses and less thermal inertia in the northern hemisphere, I believe?), so they won't tend to happen all throughout the year. The last one was also in July 2023, for that matter. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      But you would also have "hottest <specific date> on record" type of news, like hypothetically an average of 100+ degF worldwide on Jan 21st. Which still can be seen as a potential statistical anomaly. If we are going to post these, the more conclusive story is a record annual average temperature which takes out the spikes and dips. Masem (t) 12:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose per Masem. Estreyeria (talk) 13:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As others have said, this record will likely not stand for long, and the article does not have a large enough update. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the record has already been broken (the very next day). Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/world-breaks-hottest-day-record-second-day-row-2024-07-24/ Jiaminglimjm (talk) 14:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I believe it'd be notable if it ever goes in the other direction (down). Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Climate change is an important topic, but the real issue is the trend, not single-day records. We've posted the IPCC reports as important studies of the changing climate, which I agreed with. Record days / weeks / months are by their very nature outliers and with the overall heating trend they'll be repeatedly broken. I don't think ITN should be posting numerous blurbs saying essentially the same thing. There could maybe be a case for hottest year, because that would enforce at least 12 months between blurbs, which is more manageable. But even then, I find it difficult to imagine what the article updates might be. Other than stating the record, what more can be said? Modest Genius talk 15:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 22

[edit]
July 22, 2024 (2024-07-22) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Eugene Sârbu

[edit]
Article: Eugene Sârbu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Romanian violinist who made an international career. We expanded and found sources. Sorry for being late to nominate, but it took some time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerzy Artysz

[edit]
Article: Jerzy Artysz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Polskie Radio, Polish Radio
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Polish baritone who performed all the great roles from early to world premieres in Warsaw, and toured the world, and taught in Barcelone and Warsaw, but all this long ago, therefore not much left on the internet. I translated the article from the German Wikipedia and expanded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Re-closed) Kamala Harris nomination

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW. Shouldn’t really have been reopened in the first place. The Kip (contribs) 15:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Kamala Harris 2024 presidential campaign (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris becomes the new presumptive candidate for the Democratic Party in the 2024 presidential election (Post)
News source(s): ABC news CNN
Credits:

Article updated
  • Oppose Biden's resignation from the race was big news... this is not. Noah, BSBATalk 15:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose And why Kamala and not Trump? And why Kamala and Trump and not all the candidates making campaigns for the 2024 US election? And why not do the same with all candidates on presidential campaigns elsewhere? Better keep the can of worms closed, and just post the results when the elections are over. Cambalachero (talk) 15:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the posting of Bidens withdrawal was absolutely extraordinary and imo shouldn't have been posted. US bias all over. This is obviously too much. No. Just no. Bedivere (talk) 16:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add to the Biden blurb now that he has endorsed her candidacy and she now inherits their joint ticket. Note also that Harris's article is getting way more readers than Biden, Trump or the Olympics and so it's clear that her candidacy is major news and that readers are keen to find out more about her specifically. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, seriously no. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose What was notable for ITN was the historic nature of Biden withdrawing, not Harris being endorsed (and, as the proposed blurb says, she is only the presumptive nominee), so this should neither have a blurb nor be combined into the Biden blurb. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. We should never have posted the Biden story in the first place, which happened in a rush overnight (while the US was awake) and closed before many users had a chance to comment. ITN should post the results of elections, not wrangling over who the candidates will be. I don't think we should compound the error by adding various updates to that blurb. Besides, Harris hasn't even been officially selected yet. Modest Genius talk 13:31, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per everything above. We don't need to post every detail of the US election campaign. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 14:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Elena Mauti Nunziata

[edit]
Article: Elena Mauti Nunziata (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Forum Opera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Soprano who appeared on the great stages of the world in beloved roles (La traviata, in La bohème ...) and some unknown ones, most active in the 1970s. The article was there but was stubbish and tagged for few references. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Mayall

[edit]
Article: John Mayall (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP via Billboard
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Influential blues musician. Several lines do need citations, but they should be fixable. rawmustard (talk) 01:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Uncited statements. Bremps... 16:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alexander Waugh

[edit]
Article: Alexander Waugh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph obit
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Eric talk 23:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Gofa landslides

[edit]
Article: 2024 Gofa landslides (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 257 people die as a result of landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia kill at least 257 people.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The deadliest landslides in Ethiopian history kill at least 257 in Geze Gofa.
News source(s): https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/07/23/death-toll-from-ethiopia-landslides-rises-to-229
Credits:

Article is a bit barebones, but I have no doubt that the deadliest landslide in Ethiopian history (with over 200 dead) is notable. I'd say post after improvements are made to the article. Bremps... 19:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Article's been expanded just enough for the front page. Two CNs should be easy enough to clean up. The Kip (contribs) 19:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: I think we can post this now. Bremps... 04:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mark Carnevale

[edit]
Article: Mark Carnevale (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports, CBS News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American professional golfer and broadcaster. 240F:7A:6253:1:469:7779:58A7:91C5 (talk) 15:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A bit short of an article. Bremps... 20:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Duke Fakir

[edit]
Article: Duke Fakir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Member of the Four Tops, an American voice quartet from the '60s. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article quality is fine. Let's just post. Bremps... 07:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kenneth Grange

[edit]
Article: Kenneth Grange (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times, Rail Advent, Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

. British industrial designer. yorkshiresky (talk) 20:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: James C. Scott

[edit]
Article: James C. Scott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ArtReview
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Death announced 22 July. Thriley (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as it's a well-sourced article about a notable anthropologist. He was one of my favorite authors, particularly Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States, and I'm sad to learn he died. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 21

[edit]
July 21, 2024 (2024-07-21) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Henry J. Nowak

[edit]
Article: Henry J. Nowak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former congressman from western NY. Quite short. Curbon7 (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support CN tags seem to be removed. Bremps... 16:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 anti-tourism protests in Spain

[edit]
Consensus to post is unlikely to develop.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 anti-tourism protests in Spain (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Palma de Mallorca, more than 20,000 people protest against overtourism. (Post)
News source(s): France 24, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
240F:7A:6253:1:4815:37F9:365D:115D (talk) 05:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that the 21 July protests are currently still described in the future-tense. I see potential here, however. Overall the article looks good and would be a fine feature. This is probably a natural peak for the protests this year? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Interesting item, In The News, article is relatively good. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning support if we agree to include purely domestic news, let's be congruent and always do so. For this reason, this news is ITN-worthy, as these are protests that have taken place in large Spanish cities, in relation to a basic economic sector of the Spanish economy and with international repercussions (and even concern: cruise companies that want to avoid boarding in Barcelona or Mallorca, etc.). Article may need some work. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support notability nice article but could really do with an infobox. Abcmaxx (talk)
  • Oppose the larger archipelago protests were in April and May, and this is late July. The recent protest of 20,000 out of a population of about 1 million in a nation of 50 million is just... not particularly major? A sense check in Reuters does not give me any news articles in the main page - the only one about Spain in there is about the corruption investigation. Juxlos (talk) 10:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not saying you didn't do that search, and I don't have an opinion on if this gets posted (though I nominated it for DYK before it was put here, to give you an indication), but Reuters posted this two hours before your !vote. A search for "Palma protests" should bring up today's coverage. Kingsif (talk) 11:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Currently, there are only two paragraphs in the article about protests occuring in July. The first one only says "In July 2024", so it may be that that protest is stale. The second paragraph describes a protest happening on 21 July, but the only effects of the protests seem to be "plans to raise the tourist tax on cruise ship visitors to the city staying less than 12 hours," which hardly seems significant enough for ITN. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The first protests were the first week of July, they're stale. Of course, the article's 10 paragraphs total, how much more would you have written about one protest without going into NOTNEWS territory? Kingsif (talk) 13:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm saying is that if the protests were significant enough for ITN, then there would simply be more to write about them, particularly in regards to the effects of the protests. Currently the effects do not seem that significant. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah, totally agree. In terms of any article expansion suggestions, though, please make them Kingsif (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Tour de France

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Tour de France (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cycling, Tadej Pogačar wins the Tour de France. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Tour de France, Tadej Pogačar wins the General Classification and Mark Cavendish breaks the record for stage wins.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The article will need a significant amount of more prose before posting. Gödel2200 (talk) 19:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not ready Of course this is a notable event, but as others have pointed out the article needs work. Compare the 2024 article to the 2023 one for instance. Ludicrous (talk)

(Posted) 2024 Open Championship

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Open Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the Open Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the Open Championship.
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Needs a little bit more prose before posting. Natg 19 (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Joe Biden withdraws from US Presidential race

[edit]
This has been posted and there seems to be no consensus to pull. I am closing this, the discussion has been running long enough. --Tone 07:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Joe Biden withdraws from the US Presidential race, following weeks of public and private pressure (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Incumbent President and Democratic nominee Joe Biden suspends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Incumbent President and Democratic presumptive nominee Joe Biden suspends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Incumbent President and Democratic presumptive nominee Joe Biden ends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Incumbent President and presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden ends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb V: ​ Joe Biden, the incumbent president and the presumptive Democratic nominee, ends his campaign in the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb VI: ​ Incumbent U.S. President Joe Biden ends his campaign for the Democratic Party's nomination in the 2024 presidential election.
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-81-pulls-out-presidential-race-2024-07-21/
Credits:
BilledMammal (talk) 18:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The last time a president chose not to run for a second term was in 1968, this event has potential to change the outcome of this election cycle, for better or worse.
CallMeVbuck (talk) 18:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Johnson only pulled out when he almost lost the NH primary... Biden won all primaries except for AS, this might be the first time ever when a candidate for a major party had the delegates to be named the nominee... and then drop out. Scu ba (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. So basically this has NEVER happened before. Alexysun (talk) 06:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As he had yet to be selected as the Democratic candidate (it was only presumptive), this is not really that significant of a story in terms of how we treat elections. --Masem (t) 18:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There were no other candidates against him. This is historically unprecedented. 331dot (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support First time in generations, maybe even ever, where the incumbent president drops out of their re-election bid after winning almost all the primaries and having enough delegates to be named the nominee.Scu ba (talk) 18:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt II, it is the most accurate and does the least editorializing. This is pretty huge, and has massive implications. Lunsel (talk) 18:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt II as well; better than the initial blurb I threw together. BilledMammal (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, support Alt IV; "ends" is clearer than "suspends". BilledMammal (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've moved that wording over my alt3; I pasted from alt1 instead of alt2 accidentally amidst edit conflicts, and accidentally left out "presumptive". —Cryptic 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see there is now a new Alt IV; I support either Alt IV or Alt III. BilledMammal (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would now also support alt IV Lunsel (talk) 18:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Agree with DarkSide. New York Times says that "No sitting president has dropped out of a race so late in the election cycle in American history". Lazman321 (talk) 18:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is in the news. Boom. That is all. Lukt64 (talk) 18:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - was going to nominate, though I could also see waiting until the convention being viable (even though it's certain that Kamala will be the nominee). — Knightoftheswords 18:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - it's ridiculous that there would be any debate on this - as this is going to be the top news story on every major global newspaper tomorrow, English language or not. It's already the top headline right now on nearly every news site that regularly updates its content. Colipon+(Talk) 18:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support, presumptive Dem nominee and incumbent president withdraws very late into the election year Personisinsterest (talk) 18:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are resignations, not campaign suspensions. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Joe Biden has not resigned as president. If he were to do so, I would support that nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You did ask for resignations It's also very difficult to find circumstances equivalent to this, where a leader withdrew their candidacy in the middle of an election but did remained in office until their term concluded. Vaguely similar might be Tony Blair, whose announcement that he would step down in a year we posted. BilledMammal (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ardern’s resignation in 2023 was posted. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support, Incumbent leader of the free world calls it quits.Not sure if his endorsed VP is presidential material but that's another tale. CoatCheck (talk) 18:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's not the 'leader of the free world'. Nobody elected the US to be overlord of other nations. It's a ridiculous bit of cold-war posturing that makes a mockery of the freedom of other nations. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The phrase [still acknowledged due to the U.S. role leading Western countries militarily, culturally and economically.] Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If other nations aren't free to choose this mythic 'leader of the free world', in what sense are they free? How the hell do you have an unelected leader of world democracy? It's piffle. It's about as real a title as 'king of pop', and we oughtn't to indulge it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are free to think what you wish about the use of this phrase, but that doesn't change the fact that many RS use it. 331dot (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My point is that it's a jingoistic peacock term with no basis in fact, and CoatCheck's use of it in their 'support' argument shouldn't count for anything. We can all use fancy terms of unsupported praise for the subjects of nominated articles, if we really want to, but it shouldn't have any bearing on whether the story gets posted. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support but wait until we've sourced everything. This has made worldwide headlines, and is likely the latest withdrawal in U.S. history. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 18:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no publication called 'The Times of London'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jeez louise, they posted the link. No reason to be so pedantic. Kicking222 (talk) 21:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support ITN wouldn't normally include incumbents not contesting an election, but this story clearly is extremely notable and will be something the average reader may be looking for. Worth noting that one of the purposes of ITN is "To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news." With that being said, we should perhaps wait a little bit to settle on a blurb and polish the target article. Gust Justice (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If Biden resigned, that would be a different situation. Withdrawing a nomination is not the same as resigning. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Johnson stayed in post as PM for months after the announcement but the intent to step down was significant, as it has been in other such cases. See lame duck (politics) which explains the effect of such announcements. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: theleekycauldron gave good reasons, it's obviously the #1 news story everywhere else. No good reason to not cover it here. Blurb should say "ends" not "suspends" per NYT website top headline "BIDEN DROPS OUT OF 2024 RACE". ☆ Bri (talk) 19:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support - This moment has a significant impact on world politics, and it unprecedented for an American president to drop out of the race this soon before an election. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose He’s not resigning as president but just announcing his intent not to run for a second term in an election in which he would be a clear underdog according to most opinion polls in the swing states. Similar things regularly happen around the globe, so we really don’t need to set a precedent.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see you've brought back your pyschic knowledge of what is going to happen (or would have been going to happen) later in the campaign once again. Can we stick to the facts, please? GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the facts clearly tell that he’s faring bad in the swing states, and that’s even well documented in this article. If your “facts” are different, you’re invited to correct the mistakes in the article.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - He's not stepping down as president, so this is about the internal workings of a single political party. We didn't announce when Keir Starmer became Leader of the Opposition, but only when he became Prime Minister. While not exactly parallel, this is a similar situation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • + Blurb V: Joe Biden is the subject of the sentence so his name should appear at the start of the sentence, rather than with a wordy explanation of his position. –Vuccala (talk) 19:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stronger Support Of course! A major turning point in the race, a race which some consider to be one of the most important, if not the most important in American History! As user @AirshipJungleman29 pointed out, this has not happened since 1968. An incumbent president not even seeking re-election! Of course, a major event happening today in which the most powerful political office in the world has had a major shakeup. How is this not WAY more notable than that Vietnamese politician dying (R.I.P)? I say it must be included, no doubt about it. Jayson (talk) 19:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But we would normally only post the outcome of that race. ITN is not generally concerned with the internal mechanisms of political races. We didn't post the calling of the French snap election, nor the formation of the NFP alliance to contest it, nor the outcome of the first round. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For context, that Vietnamese politician was the current de facto leader of Vietnam, so his death had much more direct implications. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slightly Oppose I sort of understand the reason to post, since there has already been a lot about Biden running to continue his term (including a presidential debate), however, since he didn’t accept the nomination already, he technically wasn’t the party’s candidate yet. Plus, as mentioned, he’s not resigning, he’s just not continuing. If it was a resignation or a removal from power, it would be important. This isn’t a major change on the world stage, it’s only a change for the US. Kybrion (talk) 19:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly agree. And we should not have posted when Boris Johnson announced his resignation (but only when he actually went), and I have no desire to repeat that error here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Joe Biden wasn't just a "Potential candidate". He already won the primary elections and was the presumptive nominee. --Pithon314 (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But we don't post the outcomes of the primaries. We don't post the outcomes of the party conventions. We post the outcome of the election, and this isn't that. This is an internal party matter. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose seriously not. Domestic politics and another political drama. Per milionth time, this is not a news ticket, this is not a NYT headlines, and this us not USApedia. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This has made headlines across the globe. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And? This is not a Breaking News ticket. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Oppose By itself, being domestic politics doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't be featured at ITN (see WP:ITNCDONT, Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one). However, if it happened in another country, it would very much not have been blurbed, as it is one more campaign development rather than a definitive result, so posting it would risk reinforcing the Euro-American bias already present on ITN. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 19:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Chaotic Enby: I'm struggling to think of any other country this - a leader withdrawing their candidacy during the election campaign, but remaining in power until the end of their term - has happened in. The closest I can think of is John Howard announcing at the start of the 2007 Australian election that if he won he would immediately step down and make Peter Costello prime minister, but even that isn't quite the same thing, as he was still running from Prime Minister.
    I genuinely think that we would post this for any country in the G20, at the very least.
    (Also, it's clearly snowing, so while it might seem I'm debating the merits of this proposal, I'm actually using this as an excuse to try to find similar events) BilledMammal (talk) 20:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    François Hollande announcing in December 2016 (less than five months before the 2017 French presidential election) that he would not run for his own reelection. That came as a massive surprise, even though Hollande was already polling very low at the time. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I considered that (we didn't post it - it wasn't even nominated), but it wasn't quite as last minute as this, with the Socialists having time to hold a primary. BilledMammal (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support The political equivalent of Michael Jordan stepping back from basketball at the peak of his career. We are truly on the most interesting timeline. Schierbecker (talk) 19:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Event is clearly "In the News". BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Per User:Theleekycauldron this is front page breaking news worldwide. --Pithon314 (talk) 19:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This important development is clearly going to be the most significant event reported worldwide today, by a wide margin. Frankly, the idea that we might even consider omitting it from our "in the news" section would be met with confusion, disbelief, and scorn if it were suggested anywhere else than on this page. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:IAR. Yes it's pre-election news, yes it's to do with candidacy, but it's undoubtedly the biggest news and it's what people are looking for. BBC News on television is frozen on this story ever since it broke, so it's hardly a parochial US story (I don't know on what planet the US president is a local-only story). Don't tell me that people are also looking for Taylor Swift or the latest Netflix releases, this is undoubtedly not the same tihng. This involves the incumbent president, it is extremely late in the electoral cycle, making it unprecedented as to what happens next. To my knowledge, the last time the incumbent pulled out was LBJ, who did so very early in the primaries, thus allowing the Democrats to elect their candidate the standard way. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not remotely ITN material, this would set a terrible precedent for posting news ticker material. I was unsure if this would be nominated or not, I thought someone might try it and it would be SNOW closed quickly, so genuinely gobsmacked to see this with support. We'll post the US election when the winner is known in November, but other than that we do not post details of the primaries and candidate selection and other minutiae. Do not post.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I wouldn’t qualify this as minutiae. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, it's rendered more newsworthy because of the last-minute decision and the will-he-won't-he speculation of the last few weeks. Everyone's talking about the story now. But ultimately, objectively it's just a detail in the candidate selection process for the election. If Biden had chosen not to run back in January, would we have posted that? If Trump were to unexpectedly pull out now, would we post that? He's not standing down as president. I just think anything about the internals of an election is, from the point of view of ITN, minutiae.
  • Support though strongly suggest alt blurb that includes the endorsement of Harris. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support This is a significant event that's not happened in modern history. Alt blurb II is the most accurate. TheSavageNorwegian 20:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops. The reporting is about "ending" his campaign, not suspending it. I'm sure technically it will be suspended for campaign finance rules, but if everyone and everywhere is saying "ended" than we should say it too. TheSavageNorwegian 20:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support This is the biggest news of the week by far globally, will be talked about for decades to come in historical and political circles, and there has never been an incumbent, eligible American president declining to run for reelection in the age of the internet. RPH (talk) 20:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - In ten years, today will be noted as merely an important-ish moment during the 2024 US presidency, of which there were several, but Biden is still the president, that isn't changing anytime soon (hopefully). ITN should be reserved for hugely significant moments. And I don't think what happened today qualifies. For the US, certainly, but Wikipedia is Wikipedia for everyone. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:Notcrystallball. How can you say it won't be considered important?
    Maybe it will be considered very important for history of US. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support If he'd just decided not to run for a second term, this would not be ITN-worthy. It would just be tired old man do as he said and don't run again. But this late in the race, with all the mess and waves this makes, it will affect not just the US. Most of the world is watching too. Cart (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability. Unprecedented situation in State regarding circumstances and very very rare. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Very important news not only for the United States, but for the international community. It radically changes the course of the world's most important election. Notorious enough to be in 'In the News'.
Hume42 (talk) 20:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - US-centric internal politics. If this was happening in any other country, "incumbent who has been in power for only 4 years declines to run again due to health concerns" is just an event in an election cycle. This event is very important to one country, one that just happens to be over represented on this website. Those who are saying "this has never happened before" or "last time this happened was in the 1960s" are assuming the reader implicitly agrees that elections in other countries don't count. BugGhost🦗👻 20:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bugghost I think you have the opinion that all countries need to be treated equally on Wikipedia, but I vehemently disagree. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and let me just add that the United States is the 2nd largest democracy in the world. I arrived at this conclusion because it is the 3rd largest country by population in the world, with China and India above it in population and China is not a democracy and does not run direct elections. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is very clearly "in the news". Additionally, the last time this occurred was with Lyndon B. Johnson, 56 years ago. It is clearly a very rare thing and sets a precedent not only for the USA but also for the international community. IncompA 21:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose I'm not really convinced of the significance of this. If he were resigning as president I would surely support, but withdrawing from an election isn't really any more significant than the results of primaries or other internal party matters which aren't ever posted, only the result of the actual election. I don't think there's much reason to believe the course of the election will radically change with a Trump victory still most likely. Out of 195 countries in the world I'm sure there's frequent "never happened before/rarely happens in this country's politics" moments. Being "in the news" isn't enough for ITN - otherwise it would end up a celebrity news ticker --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 21:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Absoutely NOT - We post the result of the election, not the processes or incidents that get us there. -- KTC (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. We wouldn't post when he was formally selected as nominee by the DNC, so we equally shouldn't post that he won't be. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We posted such an incident just a week ago – the shooting at a Trump election rally. The claim that we only post election results is clearly false. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Candidates being shot at is not part of the electoral process! It was an assassination attempt, and we (rightly) posted the attempted assassination if Robert Fico earlier this year. Its newsworthiness was only tangentially related to the fact that it happened at a rally. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, the shooting story was big because of its effect on the campaign. It's one of the reasons that Biden has now withdrawn --it highlighted the apparent difference in the candidates' vigour. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point but the assassination attempt was featured because of the nature of the event being an assassination attempt on a major political figure as opposed to its effect on the campaign. No doubt it helped Trump but it was not the subject of the event. Joecompan (talk) 22:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Trump is a major political figure because he's campaigning to be President again. This is not a coincidental detail; it's a fundamental part of the story. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Says who? There is no policy. Seems like your opinion. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It absolutely is. The presumptive nominee doesn't let his name go forward to the national convention. That's entirely the internal workings of a party's campaign. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is. More than evident. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Understating this event to be an "internal workings of political campaigns" is an extremely rigid worldview. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is either ITN or it isn't. This is in the news and is historically rare. 331dot (talk) 21:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Biden’s withdrawal is internal party politics. Including this should also then warrant inclusion of DNC candidate next month, which we obviously shouldn't do. — hako9 (talk) 21:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    People trying to gauge what's important by analyzing this directly miss the whole point of Wikipedia. We're supposed to look at reliable sources for guidance wherever possible. This isn't newsworthy or not newsworthy because it's an internal political event or a major U.S. story – it's newsworthy because it's in the news. All over the world. Right now. That's the only metric that really matters. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 21:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Except we do not base postings primarily how many sites have a story on their front page, see WP:ITNATA. -Mika1h (talk) 22:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    you could pretty easily eliminate the "internal politics" objection as an argument that deals with the appropriateness of topics in general but also ignores the specific story being discussed, so ITNATA would disqualify most of the arguments in this thread. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Announcement to withdraw a few months back would also have the same world ramifications and the same amount of headlines, but wouldn't have the overwhelming ITN inclusion concensus. Since it's closer to the dnc now, the significance is limited to higher likelihood of Trump winning as Andrew points below. And if that's the only factor, we shouldn't include this. — hako9 (talk) 22:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not just an internal matter because Biden is the incumbent. His lame duck status now reduces his clout when dealing with other countries. And the announcement also affects the likelihood of Trump becoming president again which also influences international relations. That's why the rest of the world is taking such an interest in this (unlike Nepal or Rwanda). Andrew🐉(talk) 21:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do Nepal or Rwanda not have international relations? BugGhost🦗👻 22:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Considering that Rwanda's GDP is a measly 13.31 billion USD and Nepal's GDP is also a measly 40.83 billion USD, I would say they don't have much say in international relations. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, I would fully support events in Rwandan or Nepali politics being posted, if news media gave those events similar levels of coverage. A bunch of people here are commenting about what they personally feel is Important vs. Not Important, an inherently subjective matter of opinion, and something with no relation to ITN's purpose—to highlight content for the public WP audience that is related to "current news"—and that is not intended to be a criterion for judging what should go on ITN.
    How do people know all those anonymous people out there reading Wikipedia aren't interested in a topic? Or, is it being implicitly asserted that they oughtn't, and by gum, if WP readers care about the wrong stuff, then our job is to give those foolish readers a stiff cropping about the ears and make sure we get across to them what it is they should care about, things such as *glances* Syria's dictatorship "winning" their latest sham election. (Hey if we're doing, "ITN items should be posted on what I, myself personally, find important" how 'bout some computing and "tech" news? Can we do updates on C++23 implementation progress?) Slowking Man (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Joe Biden is the incumbent US president who already won the nomination after the primaries. The DNC (and RNC) are just ceremonial events . NamelessLameless (talk) 00:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The president of the United States is in the middle of a re-election campaign, about 3 and half months before election, when he stops this campaign and announces he will not seek re-election. It is a significant event in world politics, because the U.S. president is an important figure in world politics. Would not be that significant if it concerned a country with lesser military and political influence. Periwinklewrinkles (talk) 21:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Even though I am coming to more philosophical views on ITN's purpose and what non-regular-user readers are quickly looking for, there isn't much to say about this except it happened. In more conventional !vote argument territory, we do not post when the parties select their candidates, and this is effectively just one part of that process and inherently less notable within the whole election. It could also create precedent for posting whenever an incumbent leader says they will not be seeking re-election, an often nothingburger of a story. Kingsif (talk) 21:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support A U.S. president stepping down from the election just months away from when it’s going to occur is a very rare event and deserves coverage. Hungry403 (talk) 22:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support with Alternative blurb IV. This is the first of such an occurrence since 1968. Just as Trump's assassination made ITN, so too should Biden's withdrawal from the race. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very clearly high in the news everywhere and to me that is what is important. Rhino131 (talk) 22:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is an intra-party issue and internal American politics. There has been no election and no resignation. As others have noted, we would never post anything like this for any other country. It's time to put out money where our mouth is on systemic bias. (Arguments like "It has been more than 50 years since..." or "notable, and rare, event" or "an extremely unique occurrence in our time" alone seem pretty weak.) —  AjaxSmack  22:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Unprecedented in modern times. A clearly notable current event with potentially massive ramifications. GWA88 (talk) 22:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not "unprecedented in modern times", it happened in France in 2017 (which did not receive a ITN then either) BugGhost🦗👻 22:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Clearly it is unprecedented in the United States. Ludicrous (talk) 22:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fillon and Macron where on completely different parties. This analogy makes no sense. Scu ba (talk) 23:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was referring to to Incumbent president François Hollande of the Socialist Party (PS) was eligible to run for a second term, but declared on 1 December 2016 that he would not seek reelection in light of low approval ratings, making him the first incumbent head of state of the Fifth Republic not to seek reelection, which happened five months before the election. BugGhost🦗👻 23:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    yeah but Hollande didn't campaign for months and drop out just days before his parties convention. Scu ba (talk) 23:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Gigantic news for sure, but I really don’t think we’d be posting this if it wasn’t the USA, and that’s not good enough for me. The Kip (contribs) 22:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The global coverage, later arguments, and the firsthand experience of visiting the White House literally six hours after the news broke only to witness Australian, British, Indian, and Turkish news crews on site, not even just Americans, has made me realize how ridiculous this sentiment was. Change to post-posting support. The Kip (contribs) 03:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Gigantic news for sure, but I really don’t think we’d be posting this if it wasn’t the most powerful country on the planet yeah okay dude Scu ba (talk) 23:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    US politics have wide-ranging repercussions on the rest of geopolitics as a whole. It is hardly surprising that this is world news. This isn't a US-centric, favored news story by any means. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 23:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we're here to post "Gigantic news for sure". Bremps... 00:12, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Whether or not there is precedent, one must acknowledge the global political influence of this event. This one is a no-brainer. Ludicrous (talk)
  • Weak support I get the argument that it was an event in the lead up to the election which is why I am not fully supportive of it, however I believe that it is notable due to the nature of this election cycle being so widely covered internationally. News outlets everywhere have been talking about how Biden has stepped down and even in the lead up to it most major international news outlets were publishing articles about his current state. Joecompan (talk) 22:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's a significant event which has global implications. Blurb IV reads well. --Voyager 1 Low Battery Alert (talk) 22:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Yes it has significant global implications, but so did other events that fail to get posted. This also happened 56 years ago, or 14 election cycles ago. I’m not going to oppose it but this is a bit UScentric.108.58.27.76 (talk) 23:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per KTC and Mika1. Sharrdx (talk) 23:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It’s the 1st time that an American presidential candidate has withdrawn after securing enough delegates to win their party’s nomination, so it’s a unique event. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Many if not most national news organizations around the world will mention this event, as it is an impactful. This fits "in the news" criteria. -- IlyaHaykinson (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support alt2 or alt3 To anyone who thinks this does not have an effect beyond US borders, consider this: this may result with Donald Trump being re-elected. Do you think that won't have world-wide repercussions? -- llywrch (talk) 23:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some blurb, and this is not being posted as an electoral result, it is being posted as news. The literal top story across the entire god damn world lol. Israel is at war and it’s the top story at Haaretz (Hebrew and English) and Times of Israel for example. Top story at Le Monde (English and French). Top story at Corriere della Sera (Italian). This is very obviously in the news, the article is well developed. This is a no brainer. nableezy - 00:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Support per this comment. Bremps... 00:12, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Seems like a case of systemic bias. Someone who was hoping to become his party's nominee is no longer running for the nomination; this is a couple steps removed from the election itself. It's hard to imagine we would be considering this for ITN if it happened in any other country. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Mx. Granger "hoping to become his party's nominee is no longer running for the nomination". This is an extreme understatement. He had no one against him, he is the incumbent. The fact he would have became the party's nominee was a forgone conclusion. Until he was pressured to drop out that is, but if he wanted to continue he would have got the nomination. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (slight preference for Alternative blurb VI, but all are acceptable) for what I'd hope would be obvious reasons. This is a not-quite-but-almost unique event in American politics. Incumbent presidents generally don't drop out at the 11th hour. Joe (talk) 00:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Afd has ended, so we can link it now. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC) That page currently is at Afd. Until that ends, we cannot link it in the blurb. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gödel2200: AFD has been closed as “no consensus possible”. The article is now eligible for ITN. DrewieStewie (talk) 01:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support due to media coverage. ITN/R doesn't cover this, but well, this isn’t exactly common occurrence. Juxlos (talk) 00:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As a matter of principle, I do not think we should be posting ITN matters on the basis of American exceptionalism/chauvinism. At the end of the day, this is a matter of intra-party political campaigning. Curbon7 (talk) 01:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per previous commenters. In my opinion American internal politics are generally given undue weight on the front page and this is just another example.David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 01:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Whether people like it or not this has never happened in American history. Presidents have had their heads blown off. Presidents have died in office. Presidents have lost re-elections. Presidents have chosen not to seek re-election when their term ends… but never suspended their campaign 4 months before the election completely changing the entire election itself. Yes this is ITN. Trillfendi (talk) 01:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The contents of the "Purpose" section at WP:ITN, reproduced for convenient reference (emphasis is mine):

To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news.
To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events.
To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them.
To emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource.

I note that this appears to me to lack such objectives as, "Taking some kind of stand that, people on the English-language Internet focus on US politics and current events too much (a perhaps relevant observation here is that the US is by far the most-populous country where English is the dominant first language) and therefore, to Send A Message we pointedly are going to refuse taking note of those things at times. However we're not going to tell you, the general public who has no idea about the 'back rooms and hallways' of the project where decisions get made, that this is in fact what we are doing. Thus any of you showing up at the main page, might scratch your heads briefly thinking it's a bit curious that one section there doesn't mention that, but hey whatever there's probably some issue with the site or something", before hitting your favorite search engine to seek more information on the topic.
I also note a lack of such purposes as, "Not mentioning the 'internal processes' and events which lead up to a general election in a country, but solely noting the ultimate outcome, to convey some sort of message that the final outcome is the only thing people ought to focus on". Or, that, "Domestic political events are not a matter of concern to ITN and its readers". I confess I find this reasoning especially perplexing: are not all elections and changes of government within a single country, definitionally, "domestic political events"? About the only political occurences ITN would note under this standard would be international ones, such as elections to the European Parliament and those within transnational bodies such as the United Nations and African Union. A consistent application of this principle seems to me to extend well beyond things like elections; if a civil war broke out in the US tomorrow, the same principle, to me, would seem to logically imply ITN making no mention of that as well, it being purely a domestic political squabble. (The lead sentence of civil war: A civil war[a] is a war between organized groups within the same state (or country).) --Slowking Man (talk) 01:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This is clearly a unique event, and we shouldn't bind ourselves to conventions. I can understand why we don't want to document every campaign event, but this isn't just some candidate dropping out. The incumbent US president and presumptive Democratic nominee dropped out after the primary process, later than any presidential nominee in history. This is a monumental shift in US politics. Use common sense. BappleBusiness[talk] 01:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: In Argentina we have seen even weirder things happen, such as the likely candidate Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (basically, the local Trump) refusing to run in 2019 at the last minute and appointing instead a candidate with a tweeter post... a candidate that, up to that point, was a vocal critic of her. And in 2023, the president refused to run for reelection (just like Biden now) and the candidate was instead Sergio Massa... the minister of economy of a country just about to fall to hyperinflation, running for president (and he even had chances). And none of that circus was featured ITN. I doubt either was even proposed, because it would be a SNOW close. In comparison, what Biden is doing here is trivial. Cambalachero (talk) 01:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ^^^^^ This... -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Let's not kid ourselves. This is NOT a run-of-the-mill campaign event. This is an unprecedented development that will shake the news cycle in the U.S. and around the world for the next week at least. I am honestly surprised that people are willing to let it slip because of a mere technicality. Zelkia1101 (talk) 01:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support: Very notable event that the president of the United States decides midway through the campaign to drop out of the election. The last time this happened was in 1968. --A.S. Brown (talk) 02:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per most of the supports above. Top news at the moment, and very unusual for an incumbent U.S president to not run for reelection. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose proposed blurbs for now. Reading the above comments, it seems that a majority of supporters and American Wikipedians have to explain the timing, context, and detailed procedures of the US presidential election system in order to argue why this is significant for ITN. Because reading the proposed blurbs at face value, that significance is not really clear to those who currenty oppose or who are non-American Wikipedians. That is a bad sign. A more lengthy blurb would thus be required to include this level of detail--much longer than what would normally be on ITN I'm afraid. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As someone who, not to toot own horn but, would judge myself pretty knowledgeable regarding US politics and government (hey ask me what I got on the AP US History exam ), a simple "Joe Biden, the incumbent president, withdraws from the 2024 election" is completely fine and accurately descriptive. Omit needless words: one important property of a blurb is it's supposed to be brief. Folks he is not going to now mount a new third party campaign (and if he actually does, we can blurb that as well if it gets sufficient news attention). If readers want more details that's why the links in the blurb are there, for said readers to follow to articles containing details. The links aren't there to just break up the monotony by splashing a little color around the text.
    Unfortunately as generally occurs with any Potentially Controversial Topic where people have differing views (such as, what to write in sn ITN item), "consensus decision-making" fails here to bikeshedding: people express fifty different irreconcilable wishes of their own—there can only be one single blurb text and it's not going to be, every desired blurb all mashed together so everyone is happy—and thus without one or more people given power to make a binding decision, no one does anything and so status quo inertia "wins" by default. (And thus, all the people favoring that; "we should not do X and should do nothing" is a position just as much as "let's do X" is!) That is why every admin is cowering in a hole right now, because they all know if they post any blurb they will promptly have the anger of dozens of people displeased with their action trained upon them. Suggestion: perhaps a panel of three or so admins ought to take on making a decision on this ITM candidate, and all providing their rationale somewhere in public. Slowking Man (talk) 02:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, not every admin (he writes after posting the article and reading the comments that came in after he started writing the rationale). But normalizing panels may not be a bad idea. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Timing is a key factor in a vast majority of news, is it not? The reason for notability is time. Comparing to 1968, as mentioned previously, LBJ dropped out months before the Democratic Party's nominating convention. That's news, but is the sort of "interparty politics" that we wouldn't post here. But it's really not interparty politics when we can reasonably conclude that whoever is nominated by the Democrats was/is going to finish at least 2nd, possibly 1st in the election. This has the potential to be a massive shake-up, and at minimum is not something that has happened before. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support This is front-page news for Le Monde, The Guardian, the Sydney Morning Herald, the BBC and El Pais, and those are the only ones I bothered to check. All of them are running this as their main story. People saying that this is internal party politics in one country are missing the point. This is a momentous occasion in world politics, not just American politics. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The section is called In The News, and not just is this in the news, it IS the news, period. Everyone saying "internal US politics" is ignoring the fact that it's the top story everywhere else on Earth, too. -- Kicking222 (talk) 02:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In the end what matters is who wins the election. Call the scenario where Biden does not withdraw and Trump wins "Scenario A". Biden withdraws now, and (presumably) Harris becomes nominee. Trump wins anyway. Would the result be different from Scenario A? If not, then I don't see why this is worth posting. Banedon (talk) 02:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A very unusual and important event that is front page news almost everywhere. Noah, BSBATalk 02:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted a shortened alt6: In my view, the arguments that support posting this news have made much stronger points than those in opposition. I was particularly swayed by those who pointed out that Biden's decision has had truly substantial global coverage in some of the world's largest news outlets thanks to its ability to impact a large number of countries, all of which speak to WP:ITNSIGNIF. I would also highlight Slowking Man's ruminations about WP:ITNPURPOSE and how it relates to this story. Conversely, I did not see as many strong arguments in opposition—especially from those who opposed this based on it relating to a single country, which contravenes a very explicit bullet point in WP:ITNDONT. In addition to all that, while this is a consensus-gathering discussion, the pure numbers approach 2:1 in support (I counted 73 supports, including the nominator, vs. 34 opposes; please forgive me if I'm off by one or two.) Finally, the article currently has a single clarification needed tag, which is not major enough to prevent posting. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • To the blurb itself: I shortened it to focus on Biden withdrawing from the entire campaign, as that got the news across without what I saw as unnecessary complexity. It could also be rephrased along the lines of our article and say that he "withdraws from the 2024 presidential election" rather than ending his campaign. I have no objection to any modification proposals here if soon, or please send them to WP:ERRORS if later. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Admin comment – I've cast my eye over the discussion a couple of hours back but work pulled me back from looking at WP. I had come to the same conclusion as you, The ed17. Schwede66 03:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Given the number of people that are not regulars on ITN boards (in other words, drawn here by popularity of the topic), voting counting is the last thing we should be doing. We also (as being discussed on the talk page) do not use the weight or breadth of coverage to make decisions of what ITN should post, in part being we are not newspapers and have a different emphasis on what is encyclopedically important, not what is important on the spot moment as the news media does.
      This whole situation is part of how broken WP is when it comes to NOTNEWS. We are meant to summarize, not detail, the news, and the fact that these articles have so much excessive on-the-spot detail, and the wide push to support this with claims that it is likely going to be important, is not how we should be writing the encyclopedia, nor the type of topics we should be featuring at ITN. It's why its stressed that ITN is not a news ticker, and that we have to keep fighting against systematic bias, of which this situation is a clear case that that was flat out ignored by most !voters. (several of the opposes are in this direction). — Masem (t) 04:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      If we don't count votes and we don't use width or breadth of coverage, then what else we could use as criteria? BilboBeggins (talk) 07:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      "in part being we are not newspapers and have a different emphasis on what is encyclopedically important, not what is important on the spot moment as the news media does" — but isn't decision on who will be running that most likely changes the outcome of president election in the most influential country in the world encyclopedically important? BilboBeggins (talk) 07:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull – "Incumbent does not seek reelection" who cares? This happens all the time in all parts of the world. Not remotely ITN worthy. 5225C (talk • contributions) 03:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To consider that:
    • Most incumbents that does not seek reelection does not start by seeking reelection and then withdrawing 3 months before the due date,
    • That actually doesn't happen as often as one might think. I don't recall any of the G20 member states having a similar thing in recent memory, at least those with Presidential systems.
    • Let's be real, the President of the United States is just more influential and significant than almost any other state. If Xi Jinping suddenly declares he won't seek a fourth term a few months before the CPC Congress or if Narendra Modi suddenly announces he won't be running for reelection in his seat, that will also be posted.
    Juxlos (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull The impact of Biden not running for the presidency is the same as him not being elected. We should post only when someone is being elected into the office. – robertsky (talk) 03:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Why? Honest query. Is it a principle of ITN, apparently unstated, that, "ITN does not post any events relating to heads of govt other than the (re)election of an occupant, no matter how many readers might care"? (I presume it's implied that the death, resignation, or removal of a current occupant would also qualify.) Could you elaborate on how that relates to the purpose of ITN, which is things such as, To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news? Thank you ahead of time for responding; I appreciate hearing others share their views, even if we may not agree entirely. Slowking Man (talk) 05:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When it comes to elections, what ITN cares is who is occupying the office next. Him pulling out is as good as not the person going to be occupying the office in the next four years. Other than the announcement are there any impact in the next 4 months before the next person takes over from this that we know of at the moment? No. – robertsky (talk) 05:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay again, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask, where is this statement of principle found, exactly: what ITN cares is who is occupying the office next? A text search of WP:ITN for "election", "politic", and "office" finds (excluding the current ITN blurbs) two occurences of "election", both in this paragraph: Opposing a specific story merely because one opposes all stories of that type (such as elections, or sports, or disasters) do not often generate agreement from the community. This also holds true for arguments based on similar stories which have coincidentally appeared recently, such as multiple elections on the same day, etc. Please assess and comment on the merits of each story on its own accord, not in relation to other similar stories. I'm afraid I don't find where that ITN principle is stated. Could you help me here? (Also, this is in fact relevant to who is occupying the office next, is it not? This means it is all-but-certain to be someone other than Biden.) Slowking Man (talk) 07:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Clear consensus to post. Worldwide front-page news. Pats2017(talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support per IAR. I would like the blurb to be reworded though; you campaign for president (more accurately, for election as president), not for the presidential election. Davey2116 (talk) 03:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that works. Sorry to be pedantic like this! Davey2116 (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Davey2116: No apologies needed. Wikipedia is literally built on incremental and often pedantic improvements. :-) Ed [talk] [OMT] 04:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support While I understand some may be concerned about bias towards U.S. news, the outcome of the U.S. election has a clear and significant international effect, unlike elections in nearly every other country. An incumbent U.S. president pulling out of the race, at this point, is historic and deserves a blurb. Biden's health has dominated the news for weeks, resulting in today's announcement, which is of course the top story around the world. Johndavies837 (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. As I said earlier this has not happened since 1968 with Johnson (50 YEARS). Politics is what shapes the world and it dictates laws and alliances. If we can post a blurb about a guy from Vietnam who most people under 30 haven't heard about, then we can post about Joe. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support, very rare, very consequential, very in the news. starship.paint (RUN) 05:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support. This changes course of presidential campaign, and most likely the outcome, which in iftrslf influences world politics. This is the top news now. To arguments about Argentina and other countries not getting blurb — if you had proposed it then, maybe it would have been considered. And USA presidential campaign is unlike others, it basically lasts two years and withdrawing as soon before formal announcement of being nominated, and indeed before election is very notable. BilboBeggins (talk) 06:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 20

[edit]
July 20, 2024 (2024-07-20) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: Jill Schary Robinson

[edit]
Article: Jill Schary Robinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American author and journalist. 240F:7A:6253:1:3420:4068:EDB2:C7B8 (talk) 04:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Uncited statements and works section. Bremps... 16:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jerry Miller

[edit]
Article: Jerry Miller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Founding member of Moby Grape. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD3A:405B:E09:AEC3 (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there are some paragraphs ending without a footnote, there is one orange tag and discography section needs sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 Israeli strikes on Yemen

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Stale. The Kip (contribs) 21:59, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Israeli strikes on Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel conducts airstrikes on military sites of the Houthi movement near Hudaydah Port in Yemen. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Military sites of the Houthi movement are struck by Israeli airstrikes in response to an attack the day prior.
News source(s): NYTimes CNN Al Jazeera
Credits:
Notable escalation of the Red Sea crisis. Article is fairly well developed and well sourced. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, leaning oppose We should wait to see how things pan out but unless something major happens, I would be opposing this nomination. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support since spillover of the Israel-Hamas War is not currently covered by ongoing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning Oppose as per Gödel2200's point. Khuft (talk) 19:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 19

[edit]
July 19, 2024 (2024-07-19) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Ray Reardon

[edit]
Article: Ray Reardon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Welsh professional snooker player and six time world champion. Fats40boy11 (talk) 11:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ready it is an FA, ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kevan Gosper

[edit]
Article: Kevan Gosper (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 7News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian sprinter and IOC administrator. 240F:7A:6253:1:B4E6:BF25:CCA1:9374 (talk) 09:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose IOC section needs more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sheila Jackson Lee

[edit]
Article: Sheila Jackson Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Announcement via her official Twitter, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American congressional representative from Houston. Will update with a proper news source once available - CNN reported it live just minutes ago. The Kip (contribs) 03:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Supporrt Blurb, shes an incumbent congresswomen Lukt64 (talk) 06:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, barring maybe the sitting House Speaker, a single congressperson doesn’t come particularly close to the level of a blurb. The Kip (contribs) 07:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Assignments and Caucus memberships need references and Eulogies section needs to be sorted out. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Iryna Farion

[edit]
Article: Iryna Farion (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kyiv Independent
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ukrainian politician who was assassinated in Lviv. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Toumani Diabaté

[edit]
Article: Toumani Diabaté (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Point
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Mooonswimmer 22:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose few cn tags needs to be sorted out. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've sorted out two, just one left in the discography section. Mooonswimmer 20:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) ICJ case on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories

[edit]
Article: ICJ case on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Court of Justice finds the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories to be a violation of international law. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian Reuters Haaretz
Credits:

Article updated

Boud (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support as the court noted, this ruling has significance beyond Israel and Palestine (t · c) buidhe 23:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good. Very notable indeed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, notable and far beyond the scope of the ongoing war (the request for the case was registered by the ICJ in January 2023). I'm afraid the "Reactions" section might be a bit too unbalanced, as the vast majority of the people quoted are Israeli politicians. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for notability and international significance. ArkHyena (talk) 01:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability particularly because the ruling says Israel "should put an end to its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, desist from creating new settlements, and evacuate those already established." Currently, the formatting of the reactions section is suboptimal, and should be broken into subsections; for example, see the South Africa's genocide case against Israel article. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. BilledMammal (talk) 02:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability and quality. --NoonIcarus (talk) 02:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Somewhat oppose on quality only - the "Oral Presentation" and "Reactions" sections, as typical, are just lists of any thrown reaction to this ruling and should be neither trying to be complete nor simply presented as a list. The Oral Presentations should likely be made into a narrative to describe the major points made by the countries as a group, for example, not how each country presented. Also, if we can indicate that this is a non-binding verdict (because Israel, nor the US for that matter have signed onto the ICJ recognition) in the blurb, that would be helpful. --Masem (t) 02:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per all above. The Kip (contribs) 02:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support And for once I have no concern with the list-y sections. The first is a part of the court proceedings, right? And it's well-written even if it looks like flag soup from a glance. The reactions is not the best, but it's less "X from Country said thoughts and prayers" and more relevant people reflecting on material consequences. Do I like the bullet layout for the reactions? Not particularly, but (even considering the page protection) it seems like a valid way to stop that section becoming a repository for unsubstantial responses. Kingsif (talk) 03:24, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    the problem with the court proceedings is that we don't normally document cases to that level. When and where they happened, sure, and the broad scope of the arguments, but just listing what each country said without further context is not really helpful. — Masem (t) 04:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominal support: Significant ruling from the ICJ, but as we did not post previous ICJ rulings on the conflict, I am not sure whether there is a precedent for posting this either. Tofusaurus (talk) 03:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The most recent ICJ case proposed for posting was the South Africa v Israel genocide case in January, but iirc that was a preliminary ruling and was also considerably more weak in content (basically politely asked Israel to not commit genocidal acts, and politely asked Hamas to release the hostages), so it ultimately didn't develop consensus to post. By comparison, this is a far more concrete ruling, and this case has been running since long before the war broke out anyways. The Kip (contribs) 05:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per all above MAL MALDIVE (talk) 06:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As Israel isn't is part of this system and the court has no way to enforce its rulings, the impact should be as minimal as when another uninvolved party declares as much. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Israel is in fact part of the United Nations system. Neljack (talk) 02:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I got it confused with the ICC. Sorry. On paper, all UN members are encouraged to obey this court. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 09:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Jag1762010 (talk) 22:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted blurb) RD/Blurb: Nguyen Phu Trong

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Nguyen Phu Trong (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  General Secretary and former President of Vietnam Nguyễn Phú Trọng dies at the age of 80. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooonswimmer (talk • contribs) 12:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) July 2024 global cyber outages

[edit]
Article: July 2024 global cyber outages (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A faulty software update causes global cyber outages. (Post)
News source(s): skynews
Credits:

Article updated

Article hasn't been updated but if reporting accurate then this is definitely notable enough. Impacts include flight groundings and emergency phone services. [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe worth creating a 2024 CrowdStrike outages article? [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks to be at July 2024 global IT outages currently. Ionmars10 (talk) 07:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright we ball. Draft:2024 CrowdStrike outages [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: M. S. Valiathan

[edit]
Article: M. S. Valiathan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eminent cardiac surgeon and MAHE's first Vice-Chancellor Dr M S Valiathan passes away
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Added some references. Still there is manual of style tag in the article. Pachu Kannan (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 18

[edit]
July 18, 2024 (2024-07-18) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Sarah Gibson (composer)

[edit]
Article: Sarah Gibson (composer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): pianospheres.org
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American pianist and composer, one of her orchestral pieces was supposed to be played at the BBC Proms. 38. I tried to collect what I could find. Washington Post article is paywalled. First obit was dated 18 Jul, that's why I put her here. Help appreciated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ursula von der Leyen is re-elected

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 03:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Ursula von der Leyen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ursula von der Leyen (pictured) is re-elected President of the European Commission (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ursula von der Leyen (pictured) is reelected President of the European Commission
News source(s): Politico BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The election of the head of the European Commission has been considered ITN-worthy in the past as head of government of a sui generis entity and as a major global political figure. Von der Leyen's article is in very good condition and, looking back in history, the re-election for a second term of an EC president is not that usual. We should remember also that 2024 European Parliament election failed to be included in Main Page in June. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:25, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability While not ITNR, the president of the European commission heads the executive branch of the EU, which I think is significant enough. The article currently has two cn's and an outdated tag. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 Nigerian general strike

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 03:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Nigerian general strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nigerian government and trade unions agree to a national minimum wage increase, concluding weeks of negotiations after a nationwide general strike. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters; Bloomberg; This Day
Credits:
Grnrchst (talk) 12:54, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article says that "The country's national grid and its airports were shut down on 3 June 2024, as were banks, hospitals and schools...The following day, the NLC and TUC suspended the strike, pending talks with the government over raising the minimum wage.", but it does not indicate that a situation like that was occurring at the time the deal was agreed upon. I think that this would only warrant a blurb if something at the scale of what was happening on 3 June was also happening at the time of the resolution. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Strikes are rarely posted, and not sure what makes this one stand out. Besides, it's resolved now. Khuft (talk) 19:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Cheng Pei-pei

[edit]
Article: Cheng Pei-pei (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Chinese actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 02:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Filmography seems to be a common stumbling block. Bremps... 19:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose filmography is entirely unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Abner Haynes

[edit]
Article: Abner Haynes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Member of the Chiefs Hall of Fame. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 01:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Professional career section's orange tag needs to be resolved. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lou Dobbs

[edit]
Article: Lou Dobbs (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Newsweek
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Relatively good shape. Natg 19 (talk) 20:33, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I hated this man but his article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bob Newhart

[edit]
Article: Bob Newhart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs work, but a big name in entertainment.Natg 19 (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose outstanding number of cn tags needs to be resolved, Although, I would have been okay with a blurb but article's quality won't allow it. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fresia Saavedra

[edit]
Article: Fresia Saavedra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Universo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks ready indeed. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 17

[edit]
July 17, 2024 (2024-07-17) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Pat Williams (basketball)

[edit]
Article: Pat Williams (basketball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

NBA executive and co-founder of the Orlando Magic. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 01:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose several cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bernice Johnson Reagon

[edit]
Article: Bernice Johnson Reagon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 01:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not ready same issues remain. Bremps... 19:34, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose several cn tags and lede needs to be rewritten. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Bangladesh quota reform movement

[edit]
Article: 2024 Bangladesh quota reform movement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Bangladesh, protests against the reinstatement of the Quota system of Bangladesh Civil Service leave six people dead. (Post)
News source(s): Gulf News
Credits:

Ongoing protests in Bangladesh. The article needs some copyediting, and currently has an empty section. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Despite a frowned-upon gallery section, the article seem alright for mainpage posting. Seems major. Bremps... 19:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I agree with you on both points. 64.114 etc 19:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The Kip has a point to this. Solid article, growing protests. 209.121.102.221 (talk) 20:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now until something substantial happens. Protests are commonplace in every corner of the world and are not automatically ITN-worthy. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, six people died. Hundreds are wounded. Bremps... 21:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now Not the best prose and poorly formatted. Of dubious notability for ITN Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – The copyedit tag is a bit of a problem, but I think the article is in a good state overall. I think the correct date for this is probably July 16, when the Chhatra League fired on university students. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support clearly important to a lot of people Kasperquickly (talk) 09:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important and well-cited article. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 09:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality. Apart from a lot of poor prose, there are uncited statements (some contentious) together with a lot of "he said, she said" material which doesn't appear to match the sources. For example, the sentence In light of these events, the Prime Minister questioned the education of the protesters and described their behaviour as "very regrettable" is sourced to this, so the first part of the sentence is synthesis from the source, and the words "very regrettable" don't appear at all. Or this section In the early hours of 16 July, at around 12:15 am, members of the Chhatra League attacked Jahangirnagar University students using firearms is sourced to this in which firearms aren't mentioned. And this is just a couple of the English sources I've looked at, not being able to read Bengali which makes up at least half of the sources. Black Kite (talk) 10:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Over 100 deaths[1], total mobile internet shutdown, 7.5 million Bangladeshi diaspora can’t communicate with their relatives, they have no connection with their family and beloved one, don’t know even if they are death or alive, [2] military curfew imposed [3] [4]!! We guys can wait and carry on other best/important things!! Pathetic world!! 2A0A:A546:7913:0:A5AA:AB38:D931:A81D (talk) 05:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously these events are important, but we only post articles that are also in good shape. Please see WP:ITN. Staraction (talk | contribs) 20:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality while it is no doubt newsworthy due to it's impact and massive death toll, the article is a mess. It has multiple orange tags, timeline section needs to be rewritten and Gallery section needs captions. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: David Morrow (commentator)

[edit]
Article: David Morrow (commentator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian sports commentator. 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk) 13:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in good shape with no CN tags. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 05:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest that his death should appear in the body of the article and once that's done, this is good to go. Schwede66 02:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Muscat mosque shooting

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 03:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Muscat mosque shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A mass shooting at a mosque in Muscat, Oman, leaves nine people dead and more than thirty others injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, Reuters, AP News, France 24
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 04:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability such incidents are rare occurrence in Oman and majority of deaths are of foreign citizens therefore it is notable but article currently needs a bit expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability I agree with the Prince of Punjab. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:1441:FA7C:FF75:8B58 (talk) 06:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support; it is sure agreeable that rare occurrences are notable for being rare.2605:8D80:325:ABB8:9C9B:AB1E:5AFC:DE95 (talk) 06:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Incoherent rationale. Struck through. Bremps... 19:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]
What’s with the sudden increase in these oddly-worded/near-nonsensical votes popping up on ITN/C lately? This is at least the fourth or fifth vote I’ve seen from an IP in the last few weeks that could’ve conceivably been AI-generated. The Kip (contribs) 07:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's... weird. I don't think it's AI, but I'm far from certain. Kicking222 (talk) 13:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support even though the article does need a bit of an expansion. 64.114 etc 06:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Should mention in the blurb that this is the first instance of ISIS launching an attack in Oman. Bremps... 19:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, with no comment on quality (haven't read the article yet). Oman is arguably the most peaceful country in the Middle East, so a massacre there—especially if it was done by ISIS or any other terrorist organization—is highly notable. Kurtis (talk) 02:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Who, what, where, when, why and how are answered. It'd be best if we mention that Oman has never suffered an ISIS attack before. Bremps... 02:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Rwandan general election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Rwandan general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Paul Kagame (pictured) is re-elected to a fourth term in the 2024 Rwandan general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In an election criticized for being unfair, Paul Kagame (pictured) is re-elected to a fourth term as president and the Rwanda Patriotic Front and allied parties win a majority in the parliament.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is of sufficient quality. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This election is of... dubious, shall we say, fairness and the article does not fully reflect that reality. Bremps... 04:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TLDR only two of the eight candidates who wanted to run against Kagame were allowed to run, and Kagame allegedly won 99% of the vote. Bremps... 04:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This was a sham election and the article does not show that. Also, WP:ITNELECTIONS mentions Changes in the holder of the office which administers the executive of their respective state/government but he has been in his office for almost two and a half decades now. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this was marked as ITNR because it was a general election, not because it was a change in the executive. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the blurb have no mention of the parliamentary elections and mentions only the presidential one. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current blurb mentions the general election as a whole, which includes both the parliamentary and presidential ones. It explicitly mentions the reelection of Kagame as he is the executive, but it certainly could also mention the results in the parliament. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per PrinceOfPunjab. If it does end up posted, I’d support using the “announced as the winner of the election” wording we’ve had for previous elections of dubious fairness. The Kip (contribs) 07:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the article is still ITN/R as a general election, but the article does not mention the parliament's election results at all. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. While probably not "free and fair", the election did actually take place and the people did vote for Kagame, so this election is covered by ITN/R and we've generally always posted it in the past. It might be good for the "aftermath" section to mention any international organisations saying it wasn't free and fair, but I'm not sure there are any yet. No doubt when that happens, we can update the article but for now I think it's good to go. I've also updated the results to show the provisional figures for parliament.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oppose we don't know how many people actually voted for Kagame. Significant election fraud is not out of the question. It would require sources to claim this election is different from the many sham elections held in Rwanda since 1994. (t · c) buidhe 23:43, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article sort of explains why the election was not free and fair - i.e. real opponents of Kagame are barred from even standing in the first place, the other "candidates" are Government-approved ones to ensure the appearance of democracy - but it should be (and needs to be) a lot clearer. Currently a casual reader would assume that Kagame is enthusiastically backed by nearly 100% of the Rwandan population, whereas in reality the claim that turnout was 98% is ... fanciful. Black Kite (talk) 11:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Amakuru. Wikipedia gives cited facts so readers can draw their own conclusions. This article meets NPOV adequately already, and when more refs regarding its lack of fairness should come, those would be welcome too. Jiaminglimjm (talk) 15:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 16

[edit]
July 16, 2024 (2024-07-16) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: April Cantelo

[edit]
Article: April Cantelo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

English soprano who created many roles in new operas. The article was there, but referencing took time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Photo RD (second choice the usual) To opera fans, she may reasonably be more famous by face than name, like Shelley Duvall was to Hollywood musical fans. To everyone else, the photo conveys the rudimentary essence of an English soprano, now recently deceased (which is more than I can say for some portraits). Article looks fine, in the textual sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Courtney

[edit]
Article: Peter Courtney (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Oregonian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, article in good shape. Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted—Bagumba (talk) 22:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Joe Bryant

[edit]
Article: Joe Bryant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Kobe's father and professional player and coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 (talk) 16:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose at least three cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added more refs, needs one for international coaching record, though perhaps that section could just be removed. Natg 19 (talk) 17:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Natg 19: I found a source for when he coached various Japanese teams & it mentions playoff results, but it doesn’t talk about his regular season record. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jacques Boudet

[edit]
Article: Jacques Boudet (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Figaro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:64A3:5EA7:A3BF:F045 (talk) 09:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 15

[edit]
July 15, 2024 (2024-07-15) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) 2024 Syrian parliamentary election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Syrian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Syria, Bashar al-Assad's (pictured) Ba'ath Party wins the 2024 Syrian parliamentary election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Syria, the Ba'ath Party (leader Bashar al-Assad pictured) is declared the winner of the parliamentary election
News source(s): AP/ABC Al Arabiya
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Was it a free and fair election, no, but it was still a national election and deserves a spot in the news per ITNR Scu ba (talk) 03:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is of sufficient quality for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Buxtun

[edit]
Article: Peter Buxtun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): PBS NewsHour
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Whistleblower who revealed the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. He died back in May, but from what I can tell, it was reported in reliable sources on July 15. Legoktm (talk) 16:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support looks alright to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Norm Hewitt

[edit]
Article: Norm Hewitt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New Zealand Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

New Zealand All Blacks rugby union player. 240F:7A:6253:1:3588:1738:72A2:F85A (talk) 07:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is an cn tag and Career highlights list needs more more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problems remain; this isn't ready. Schwede66 04:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Chinese cooking oil scandal

[edit]
(non-admin closure) Consensus to post is unlikely to develop. Gödel2200 (talk) 18:07, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Food safety incidents in China (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Chinese cooking oil scandal (Post)
News source(s): DW
Credits:

Article updated
"The investigative report into the latest scandal revealed that two tanker trucks had been loaded with cooking oil for delivery immediately after carrying chemical products, a cost-saving measure that the media said had become an "open secret" in the supply chain." Count Iblis (talk) 17:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose One sentence update is not sufficient for a posting.
Noah, BSBATalk 17:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Two dirty tanker trucks is relatively insignificant.
Celjski Grad (talk) 17:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Copa América final

[edit]
Article: 2024 Copa América final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In association football, Argentina defeats Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In association football, the 2024 Copa América final ends 1-0, Argentina over Colombia.
News source(s): The Athletic
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Article is well-referenced as of nomination, with a few updates being added. — MarkH21talk 04:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 14

[edit]
July 14, 2024 (2024-07-14) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) UEFA Euro 2024 final

[edit]
Article: UEFA Euro 2024 final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Spain wins the UEFA Euro 2024, defeating England.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The article for the final may need some sourcing work. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Per answer above; in principle. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A (talk) 21:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the final as the primary article as it seems quite perfunctory, doesn't provide any narrative for the game and needs work for issues like tense. The UEFA Euro 2024 article would be better as the primary article as it covers the entire event but that needs work too. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Those oppose votes that the article on the final lacks a prose recap of the match only 20 minutes after its end are very unproductive and may delay posting this because the majority of admins here blindly count votes. We all know that this won’t be posted in the next two hours, at least.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The prose summary has been started and is well-referenced. No preference for primary-linked article or wording in the blurb. — MarkH21talk 21:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SUPPORT! Apparently, it’s agreeable that the summary is well authentically referenced with good citations. 207.194.85.134 (talk) 23:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well this is clearly an AI chatbot re-writing of the !vote directly above... Kingsif (talk) 02:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good to go. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 02:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If both this blurb and the next Copa América one are posted, they could be merged into one blurb to avoid repetition (e.g: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024, and Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.) Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 09:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's wise to merge them as it may delude people that it's a single event or two closely related events, especially when we have a combined blurb on the Wimbledon Championships already on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are completely separate events. Every year we get a glut of sporting ITN/Rs around this time, it's just one of those things. Black Kite (talk) 11:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But it would avoid the tiff of which one gets posted on top and in turn lasts longer. I get they are different events, but still "continent level championship for national teams in the same sport at the same time" is close enough that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. But no strong opinion either way, just seems like it would avoid some drama. nableezy - 17:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose on quality (and unmarked as Ready). Four sentences of prose on the entire final match is not sufficient. Black Kite (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support there really is nothing more you can write about the match, the quality is good enough Reme77 (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Evan Wright

[edit]
Article: Evan Wright (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Author of Generation Kill. Article could use some reorganizing (I'm new to this so lmk if I'm doing this wrong). CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 18:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait good is in a good shape, only thing holding it back is that the Published works section needs sourcing. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Wimbledon 2024

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Wimbledon Championships (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, Barbora Krejčíková and Carlos Alcaraz (pictured) win the women's and men's singles respectively at the Wimbledon Championships. (Post)
News source(s): NYT - The Washington Post
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

I think the article is in a good enough shape to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Reviewers' attention needed) RD: Jacoby Jones

[edit]
Article: Jacoby Jones (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American football wide receiver. Article needs a decent bit of work. The Kip (contribs) 16:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait Houston Texans orange tag needs to be resolved otherwise good to go. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shannen Doherty

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Shannen Doherty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

(Closed) Suspension of Alice Guo

[edit]
(non-admin closure) Closing it again as an IP address decided to reopen it. This was originally closed by Stephen as consensus to post will not develop. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 21:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Alice Guo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bamban, Tarlac mayor Alice Guo is suspended after her actual identity is revealed to be Chinese. (Post)
News source(s): Rappler Inquirer Philstar
Credits:

Really big incident in the Philippines, a lot of news sources talking about it, I might as well try to put it on the main page.🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Subnational incident that doesn't rise to the level of impact required for a main page posting.
Noah, BSBATalk 11:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 13

[edit]
July 13, 2024 (2024-07-13) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Ron E Sparks

[edit]
Article: Ron E Sparks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian radio presenter. 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk) 13:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quite a few citation needed tags. Schwede66 01:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ruth Hesse

[edit]
Article: Ruth Hesse (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Violin Channel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German mezzo-soprano who made an international career starting at the Vienna State Opera in big roles in 1965. The article was basically there, translated from de. I had to find references for recordings, and some that disappeared over the five years since it was DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Naomi Pomeroy

[edit]
Article: Naomi Pomeroy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Oregon Live
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American chef. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets the Bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: P. Buckley Moss

[edit]
Article: P. Buckley Moss (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The News Virginian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American artist and philanthropist. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait article needs a bit work. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: James B. Sikking

[edit]
Article: James B. Sikking (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:B0BC:D35C:F470:BF2D (talk) 05:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose uncited filmography/discography. But aside from that, there's a massive uncited list of movies in paragraph form that needs to be fixed. Bremps... 22:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose same as what Bremps said. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of the United States Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt after being shot during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Donald Trump was injured after being shot during a rally held in Butler, Pennsylvania with the perpetrator being shot dead.
Alternative blurb II: ​ One person is killed and two others are injured, including former U.S. president Donald Trump, in a shooting at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
News source(s): The New York Times, AP
Credits:

Probably the most serious security incident involving Donald Trump. Trump survived the assassination attempt. 2 people were injured, and the perpetrator and an audience was killed. Currently reported live by major news sites worldwide. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, now a shooting has been confirmed. Trump is injured. The perpetrator and an audience member died. This country is going to suffer extreme political violence in the coming weeks, so it was nice knowing you. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have sources for any of that? None of it is on the BBC live feed. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is one: 1 Gödel2200 (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. That message was labelled '4 min ago' as I saw it. Could we perhaps all slow down a little and not try to push this story onto the home page while it's still developing? GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The original source appears to be local DA speaking to various media. Different media have different threshold for single/double/triple confirmation before reporting something big. Which is why there's some reporting of dead shooter in some media but not others. Wait until it's reported across major media before referencing such if it's considered to be included with a blurb. -- KTC (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Injured? Trump's people are saying he's fine. Nfitz (talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not unreasonable to say injured when there's literally video of him with blood coming out of his ear, whether through being shot, hit his head on something during the whole incident or a USSS agent accidentally whacking him in the head as they cover him with their bodies. -- KTC (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They’re saying he’s alive. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wafflefrites (talk) 23:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not re: your vote Wafflefrites, but just so you know: it seems that the shooter was on a rooftop outside the rally. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Holy shit. Bremps... 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - this is a significant and recent news story Enoryt nwased lamaj (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note He was injured as a result of the shooting, there is (I haven't seen) as yet no confirmation that he was shot, so neither of the proposed blurb is okay as it stand. -- KTC (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting but Strong Oppose current blurb and alternative. Former President of the United States Donald Trump injured in assassination attempt at campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. Dr Fell (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not sure how else you can interpret this as anything other than an assassination attempt. Scu ba (talk) 00:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not up to Wikipedia editors to "interpret" an event. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia is a tertiary source, and luckily we are not saddled with the task of interpreting events—only repeating the reports of reliable secondary sources. It'll become clear in the next few hours how sources are treating this (and I'll be surprised if it's not as an assassination attempt, considering the report I read about the local police investigating it as an attempt on DJT's life). ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb3 This was an assassination attempt. "was injured" is ambiguous. — hako9 (talk) 00:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Assassination attempt or not, there's no question that one person was shot dead at an event involving a former U.S. president. As I write this the story at NY Times' website says "Trump ‘Safe’ After Shooting at Rally; Suspect Is Killed". This is a no brainer for main page. ☆ Bri (talk) 00:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support There’s no ambiguity around this shooting happening and being notable. CNN has already reported this is being investigated as an assassination attempt. Delay this further is absurd. Kcmastrpc (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - No need to wait as article is cited and will grow as we speak. Morogris (✉ • ✎) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Further international coverage, [13] from the ABC, who had a reporter on site, and who describes one of the dead as "the person who fired shots in the former president's direction". Elsewhere, the same page says "Associated Press is reporting that the shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt", "Washington Post reporter Meryl Kornfield says authorities told her Mr Trump was grazed by gunfire", and our ambassador and former PM Kevin Rudd has released a statement regarding "the attack on former President Trump". Nyttend (talk) 00:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Incident itself has been confirmed. --DannyC55 (Talk) 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Posted. El_C 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This image cannot be used, as it is likely a copyrighted image, and not fair use. Natg 19 (talk) 00:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for reasons stated above. We certainly cannot mention numbers at the moment, as they will quickly get outdated. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 00:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We routinely post major events involving casualties, and then update the blurb as the facts warrant. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Blurb should be re-written to stick to the known facts. No investigative body has concluded that it's an assassination attempt, but they are investigating it as such. So the confirmed information: 2 dead, there was a shooting, Trump was injured, they're inestigating it as an assassination attempt. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I think outright labelling it as an assassination attempt is projection on Wikipedia's part. I don't think any reliable sources have labelled it as such. Even the article itself just says it is being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but doesn't outright label it an assassination attempt. At the very least the blurb should reflect what is written in the article it is relating to. RahelTensions (talk) 01:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change blurb to ALT2 per @Harizotoh9. Even though it is fairly obvious that it was an assassination attempt this has not been confirmed and RS have only said it's being investigated as an assassination attempt, not that it was. ALT2 reflects the current facts of the situation. Jbvann05 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh and there were two confirmed deaths so the Alt2 blurb is out of date already. One rally attendee and the shooter. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've softened to possible assassination attempt, for now. El_C 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    FBI confirms assassination attempt. Was gonna omit possible, but it looks like Ad Orientem beat me to it. El_C 05:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb2 As per Jbvann then swap back to altblurb3 when confirmed. Sharrdx (talk) 03:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Change blurb to Alt2 Mentioning that someone was killed makes it the best description of what happened. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Change to Altblurb2 "investigated as an assassination attempt" =/= "confirmed assassination attempt." Goal and motive still not know, so we should avoid assuming on what it is. Unless we get a RS stating that it's not just being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but outright declared as one, the ITN should not claim it as such. Nottheking (talk) 05:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The FBI specifically called it an assassination attempt. RahelTensions (talk) 05:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The incident is obviously interesting and in the news but it doesn't seem sufficiently certain, settled and stable to be suitable for presentation as an encyclopedia article. Issues include:
  1. Biden and Trump are both continually in the news as the presidential campaign progresses. For example, Biden's gaffes and the pressure on him to retire have been all over the news lately. It seems difficult to cherry-pick particular incidents in a balanced way and so the whole thing better belongs in Ongoing.
  2. The article about the incident is still a work-in-progress. For example, it currently uses a powerful image as fair use but the validity of this copyright issue is contested and unresolved.
  3. The incident is a crime but investigations are not yet complete. For example, the BBC reports that the shooter was spotted crawling into position minutes ahead of the shooting but nothing was done. The article does not yet explain this.
  4. There's already a big cloud of social media speculation, disinformation and misinformation out there which muddies the waters.
  5. We really don't need Donald Trump's smiling picture on the main page once again.
Andrew🐉(talk) 06:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. If 'In the news' covered everyday campaign news, concern about cherry-picking events in a balanced way would be justified. Certain events within the presidential campaign are independently newsworthy. An assassination attempt on a former president and current presidential candidate is a significant (and likely historical) event.
  2. Featuring relevant and timely news often means linking to articles that are neither settled nor stable. The article is unambiguously flagged as a current event.
  3. You've repeated your concern about developing stories featuring in 'In the news.' The utility of 'In the news' is reduced for users if articles are only featured once they have matured.
  4. On the contrary, featuring this story helps combat social media speculation, disinformation, and misinformation by offering readers a fact-based resource.
  5. Your last point significantly weakens the preceding four.
Dr Fell (talk) 17:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ITN has moved on and so these points are mostly moot now. But the red link for Dr Fell is a nice puzzle and I fancy I have a solution. Now that's encyclopædic – well done! Andrew🐉(talk) 20:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We recently posted Robert Fico’s assassination attempt, so it’s sensible to post a similar event involving a former US president and a clear front-runner in this year’s election. Yes, it seems like we post a lot of news about him, but we’re closely approaching the election and the next news to post should be his victory.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slightly jumping ahead of the electoral process there, aren't you? GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The user did jump the gun a bit, but I have a gut feeling that Trump's face is going to get on ITN at least six more times before he dies (win or lose this election) then again after he does. Bremps... 12:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I now support the posting (although I don't think we need the picture - it's still not related to the story). It was the 'should be his victory' part that seems wildly premature! GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) KP Sharma Oli becomes PM of Nepal

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate -. Rushtheedtior (talk) 16:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is well-sourced and of sufficient quality for ITN --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Many very reliable authentic citations and sources in an article of sufficient quality, like above. 64.251.82.42 (talk) 02:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable and of passable quality. Deprecated controversy section, but oh well, nothing's perfect. Bremps... 04:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: I believe that this is ready for posting. Bremps... 12:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Richard Simmons

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Mooonswimmer 20:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose RIP to such an amazing person. But, the article still has various cn and other tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No tags now. Kire1975 (talk) 02:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I count five citation needed tags. Schwede66 01:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about now? Kire1975 (talk) 04:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 12

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 12 Template:Cob

RD: Tonke Dragt

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Dutch children's author and illustrator. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Only a few uncited statements holding this back. Bremps... 06:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support no more uncited statements, this can be promoted now. Jaguarnik (talk) 04:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose three cn tags still remain and bibliography is also unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bill Viola

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate American contemporary video artist. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Several uncited statements. Bremps... 06:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support have referenced the uncited statements. yorkshiresky (talk) 19:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks good to go. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ruth Westheimer

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Support, but some issues remain, but close She's pretty close, but likely there's missing sources or some other issues. However, she should be ready soon. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Picture/blurb I'm in the UK and just heard a BBC news bulletin announce her death. I was already familiar with her large reputation and feel that she's a good example of the celebrity for which an RD picture is appropriate. A blurb would be good too, to explain to unfamiliar readers how and why she was so influential. Note also that the article is substantial, has a high quality rating, 175 inline citations and a huge bibliography.
Also, we should run this as Dr. Ruth per WP:COMMONNAME.
Andrew🐉(talk) 19:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support Death was very newsworthy in numerous international sources. With respect to the listing name, I agree commonname applies, but would propose Dr. Ruth Westheimer which would provide more adequate detail and clarification. I'll also propose the following as a blurb to further that discussion, however I am not sure if a blurb is necessarily called for here:

With or without blurb, definitely a strong candidate for inclusion.Bgv. (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Billy Ibadulla

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Death announced on 12 July. Article will need further updates to make it ready. Schwede66 23:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Uncited statements. Bremps... 22:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 11

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 11 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Thomas Hoepker

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Influential photojournalist who explored - over 60 years - the human condition in East Germany and the United States and worldwide, taking iconic shots of Mohammad Ali and the World Trade Towers. Article was basically there but most of the references were missing. One good obit appeared today. Someone with time may find references for films and exhibitions, and use that obit for more detail - I go to a concert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Monte Kiffin

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate NFL coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 (talk) 00:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Aparna (television presenter)

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Indian anchor and actress. mwwv converse∫edits 18:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not ready; many citations are missing. Schwede66 21:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shelley Duvall

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

  • We don't do picture RDs, but go ahead and propose it if you want. Natg 19 (talk) 06:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We've posted a picture RD more than once. For example, see Kirk Douglas. And it's good to do this because otherwise we keep running the same picture day after day. For example, we're 12 days into the month but we've only posted 4 different pictures. Changing the picture every day like the other main page sections ought to be our goal and using RD pics is an easy way of achieving this. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This was four years ago, and I don't think we need to open another front of endless debate. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is already a discussion about this on the talk page, and unless there is a consensus to do picture RDs, there is no point asking for this. Natg 19 (talk) 16:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The general consensus of the talk page discussion seems to be that picture RDs are a good idea and should be posted when appropriate. So let's get on with it – nothing ventured, nothing gained. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: David Liederman

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 06:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Nana Nuriana

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Former governor in Indonesia. Juxlos (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, with AGF for the offline Indonesian source backing up what it claims to back up. Schwede66 21:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 10

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 10 Template:Cob

RD: Thomas Hoepker

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The usual problem. Bremps... 08:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Reviewers needed] RD: Peter Steedman

[edit]

Template:ITN candidateStudent activist from the 1960s and ratbag Australian politician from the 1980s, known for wearing jeans and a leather jacket into Parliament. HiLo48 (talk) 11:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Is there anything else that can be said about his political career in the House of Representatives other than his attire and a sentence about accusing other politicians of being neo-Nazis? SpencerT•C 08:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Dave Loggins

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate American singer-songwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good to go. Let's roll. Bremps... 04:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The career section needs more sources for all the namedropping. The third table in the Discography section is also completely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 01:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Engle

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate NASA astronaut. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 (talk) 03:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, for RD, of course. Engle was the last of the 12 X-15 pilots (a big deal) and the astronaut who was scheduled to walk on the Moon on Apollo 17 but was replaced by a geologist (after Apollo 18 was canceled). Among the two Space Shuttle missions he commanded was the project's second flight. Engle is one of spaceflight's pioneers. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It might be a big deal, but what does " last of the 12 X-15 pilots" mean? HiLo48 (talk) 05:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It indicates that Joe Engle was one of the earliest pioneers of spaceflight, and was the last surviving member of the first group in this list of all astronauts/cosmonauts. (to be honest, that article tells the entire answer/story well enough on its own; the rest of my reply is just more historical context)
Worth noting that the X-15 pilots were selected before those of either Mercury or Vostok, thus making the X-15 program the earliest astronaut program to put anyone in space. (even if said spaceflights did not occur until a year or so after the other two programs) On top of that, the X-15 was the world's first hypersonic fixed-wing aircraft.
This placed Engle in a very exclusive club; while the FAI does not recognize him as having flown in space in the X-15, both NASA & the US Air Force do recognize him as having flown due to having passed an altitude of 50 miles (80,467.2 meters or 264,000 feet) on three occasions. (also worth noting that the Air Force selection for X-15 pilots would include a far more well-known member in Neil Armstrong, first person to set foot on the Moon)
With Engle's passing, there are no longer any surviving members of the first group of pilots seriously selected to go to space. This leaves Boris Volynov as the earliest-surviving astronaut/cosmonaut, as the sole surviving member of the USSR's first cosmonaut selection. Nottheking (talk) 17:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but can you translate "12 X-15" to English please? HiLo48 (talk) 23:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The X-15 was a specific type of aircraft. It was only ever flown by 12 pilots. Engle was the last living of those twelve. —Cryptic 23:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. HiLo48 (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Benji Gregory

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate American actor. He was found dead on June 13, but his death was announced on this day. 240F:7A:6253:1:A864:DA97:9C83:9E71 (talk) 03:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Maxine Singer

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this day. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Don't see any issues, solid B-class (or maybe even GA) article in my opinion. Bremps... 23:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other than an unreferenced date of birth, that looks solid. Schwede66 06:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now fixed; support since article looks good. Staraction (talk | contribs) 06:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks good! Estreyeria (talk) 13:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted – Schwede66 23:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 9

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 9 Template:Cob

RD: Dan Collins (journalist)

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Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Can't see any issues. Bremps... 08:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Diana Hill

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate New Zealand academic, and a full professor at the University of Otago. Article looks ok. Schwede66 04:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ariane 6

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate The launch was initially planned for 2020, but was postponed until today. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Note that the flight was only mostly successful, with the upper-stage re-entry burn not taking place as scheduled. --Carnildo (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The article doesn't include any details on the launch except to say that it occurred. In more than one instance the tense hasn't even been updated to show that the launch is now in the past. If we're going to blurb this we need to include at least some prose on the details of the maiden launch, what succeeded, what failed, etc. Otherwise I believe the maiden launch of a space vehicle (especially a major one from a government agency like ESA) is ITNR so support once the article is fixed. 142.163.137.123 (talk) 00:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maiden launches of rockets are not ITN/R, only the first launch by a country is. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 02:45, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, upper stage appears to have failed a relight per ESA livestream. Worth mentioning in blurb? [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 02:30, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lean oppose on notability I can't recall any precedent on "new type of rocket is launched", and could see this right on the borderline of trivia. I could well be wrong though. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 02:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It was ITNR until last year. -- KTC (talk) 19:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That it was removed suggests consensus against posting such things going forward This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's a consensus that we'll judge each posting on its notability merit rather than assume merit and post every time (so long as quality of article). Removal from ITNR is not a "we'll never post it again". Your initial comment appears to suggest that you think new rocket type launch isn't something we post at all and that it's "borderline of trivia". The support for removal from ITNR are based on the increasing number of new rockets types launches with the advent of commercial space exploration/launches. Ariane isn't one of those commercial development/launch. It's a replacement of the workhorse launch system for the 22-member intergovernmental European Space Agency. -- KTC (talk) 08:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, the flight itself (Ariane flight VA262) doesn't have its own article yet, which is a bit suboptimal. It did successfully send its payload to orbit, so it should be notable enough as a maiden flight (better than the perennial Starship test flights). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 02:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, having an article about the flight would be nice. I don't want us to end up with the same result as the German Wikipedia, who currently have the same blurb in their version of "in the news", with a link to the article about de:Ariane 6 that barely mentions the maiden launch with a single sentence. I don't want to mock the German Wikipedia, but this rocket was largely developed in Germany, and if not even de:Liste der Ariane-6-Raketenstarts has anything to say about how the flight went, I find that quite sad. Renerpho (talk) 03:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as nominated, since the launch wasn't really a "success", but would support with modifications. It did send its payload to orbit, it just failed to then de-orbit the second stage, which really is the main new innovation of the Da Vinci upper stage compared to what Ariane 5 did. I have no concerns about notability, just about how to put it into a neutral blurb. Renerpho (talk) 03:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ESA put a lot of weight on their "zero debris" policy, and on how Vinci was a big step in that direction. Even if the problem with this launch doesn't affect plans for the future (which remains to be seen), putting 600 kg of debris into an orbit that will need decades to decay doesn't look like a success to me. With how the news cycle is working, I'd wait until it is day again in Europe and in the US, to see if the news actually lean towards success, or failure. Renerpho (talk) 03:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My local paper's article (mostly a reprint of one in the Orlando Sentinel) managed to avoid calling it either a "success" or a "failure". --Carnildo (talk) 06:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Cowards. Renerpho (talk) 10:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - this would be more supportable if the article linked on the target page for the "maiden flight" existed - Ariane flight VA262. Nfitz (talk) 12:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not convinced by the current state of the article that this merits posting, as it does not look ready. Almost more text is devoted to this launchdate being delayed, than to a description of the flight itself. Said description is completely limited to a table entry. Needs work. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle - I would fully support this if the article was up to par, but the launch itself doesn't have it's own article, and the main A6 article only has a small exerpt in launch history regarding it. This is exciting though; Arianespace is a major player in launch vehicles. qw3rty 14:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose nothing notable or significant about this launch. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Joe Bonsall

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Template:ITN candidate Tenor of the Oak Ridge Boys. rawmustard (talk) 17:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Some improvements but still tagged for uncited statements. Bremps... 23:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Inhofe

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Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 16:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, given Inhofe was notable for both representing Oklahoma for decades and climate change denial. I would wait until the article has been finished being edited, given Inhofe recently died, but Inhofe merits inclusion in RD. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:28, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Tqq Curbon7 (talk) 05:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Heaps of orange maintenance tags. Schwede66 05:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready: Page has a lot of orange maintenance tags. Once does are gone I'll support it. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 19:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - At least a half dozen orange tags need to be dealt with. Jusdafax (talk) 00:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 8

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 8 Template:Cob

RD: Andrejs Plakans

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Template:ITN candidate Latvian American historian. Thriley (talk) 14:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marina Kondratyeva

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Template:ITN candidate Russian ballerina. Thriley (talk) 18:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Leading ballerina of the Bolshoi Ballet, famous as the "airy" Giselle, who received gala events from the company on her birthdays. I'll give her more refs but not right now, also asked a speaker of Russian for help. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: 1 sentence that needs a ref but otherwise appropriate depth, essentially ready. SpencerT•C 21:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • With 500+ words of prose, this wikibio is more than long enough to qualify. Footnotes can be found at expected spots (except one spot about her 2013 appointment to the artistic council of the Bolshoi Ballet troupe). Formatting looks fine. Earwig has no complaints. This wikibio looks READY FOR RD (once the lone {cn} tag is addressed). --PFHLai (talk) 21:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It looks good to me. I suggest that if a citation cannot be found quickly for "In 2013, Kondratyeva was appointed a member of the artistic council of the Bolshoi Ballet troupe" - that the sentence be removed to the article's talk page until a citation can be found. I do not recommend deletion (temporary or otherwise) because it may then be forgotten, even though it is still there in the history. This is an attractive article for a link on the main page. Storye book (talk) 07:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I followed your advice, moving to the talk page. I believe that he post was more or less honorary anyway, and doesn't change her biography much. On my search to find a reference I found two others for other facts that I added. I see that it would need someone knowing Russian to find a ref for the fact in question because English sources seem not to mention it, nor translations of the Russian sources we already have. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Women's high-jump WR

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Template:ITN candidate One of the longest-standing records in athletics, from 1987. Women's high jump world record progression 81.196.30.56 (talk) 01:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't seem to understand what "world" means. HiLo48 (talk) 02:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb1 article is in good condition, and it's notable because of how long the record stood; the altblurb reduces ambiguity, so that's why I prefer it over the original blurb. Unknown-Tree🌲? (talk) 05:29, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Altblurb article is in a good shape and breaking decades old record is blurbworthy. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The target article doesn't have much of an update and has lots of uncited facts.
  2. Another athletics world record was broken at the same event – see Guardian
  3. This was a warm-up for the Olympics which we're about to run. I suppose more world records will be broken at that.
  4. The record has not been ratified and there can be technical objections.
  5. There are so many sports with so many stats that records are broken all the time. For example, Lewis Hamilton won the British Grand Prix on Sunday which extended his record of wins and was the first time a driver had won a race for the ninth time. At Wimbledon, there's an new amazing record. There was a recent record at the Tour de France which we didn't run. And so on...
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From above "This is a notable world record which has been unbroken for 37 years." HiLo48 (talk) 07:42, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jumping as high as possible is probably a much more mainstream world record than having the most Template:Tq. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The cycling record had lasted for 55 years but we still didn't post it. These numbers seem fairly arbitrary and there will tend to be a natural plateau as sports are established and become mature. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC) Template:Ec[reply]
If more people here understood Le Tour, we would have posted that cycling record, but comments made it obvious too many didn't and weren't interested in learning. HiLo48 (talk) 09:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is clearly less notable than Cavendish's record, as high jump has less news coverage than Le Tour. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article needs a couple of references, especially in the awards sections (the awards articles are cited so this is easy to fix), and some sentences in the prose also need sources. Other than that, all fine. If I remember correctly, we post breaking of long-standing records in athletics, as well as breaking of 100m and marathon whenever they happen (been a while since Usain Bolt but marathon got broken a couple of times in the past decade). --Tone 08:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would be happy to support featuring this if the update was more extensive. I'd expect more details than Template:Tq I imagine she didn't use a particularly different technique or anything, but surely we can write something about the five-second moment in which she made history? Perhaps even just an interview quote about how she felt about it? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I used to write extensive updates on world records in athletics but got fully disparaged after an unfortunate discussion last year, so I decided to give up on it indefinitely because there's simply no point to produce content that some people don't value.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That discussion last year was a very similar case – two world records being broken at the Meeting de Paris. We have a full article for this event – 2024 Meeting de Paris – which is more substantial and would make a better target than just one of the athletes. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am very sad to hear this. This was exactly what I was worried about. I have been active on this front-page feature because I hoped it would inspire people to write more detailed articles, but instead it only demotivates people who put the work in... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both on WP:ITNSIGNIF and WP:ITNQUALITY. Many world records get broken frequently and don't very often meet the significance to get posted- this has way less media coverage than Mark Cavendish breaking the Tour de France record last week, which didn't get consensus to post. And Mahuchikh's article and 2024 Meeting de Paris each have 2 sentences about it, which is not enough to meet the quality threshold. Picking this world record over any others (including the other one broken at the same event) would be arbitrary as it hasn't demonstrated enough coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, "Many world records get broken frequently", but this one hasn't been. That sort of comment suggests you haven't read the previous discussion. It's quite unhelpful, AND irrelevant! 10:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs)
Over its complete history of 102 years, the average time between changes to this particular record seems to be about two years. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But this time it was 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!! You have, in fact, just highlighted why this record SHOULD be posted HiLo48 (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unsigned user comment- you have clearly ignored the fact that I pointed out this has not gained significant news coverage as needed for WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In 2014 we posted breaking of 20-years old record in men's pole vault. Now the record was unbeaten for almost twice as long. --Jona☎ 13:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Andrew and Joseph; this doesn't have nearly enough coverage or significance to warrant posting on ITN. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose how many sports disciplines are there? a few hundreds at least, right? And each presumably keeps track of more than 1 record. so what makes this any special? "one of the longest standing in athletics" doesnt cut it for me, esp given that it was achieved not that logn ago. I'd presume most records would have stopped around late 80-s if it wasnt for doping Kasperquickly (talk) 16:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as not sufficiently significant. JoseJan89 (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Altblurb For those saying the target articles need more updating, one is just an index of the previous records, and the other about the actual athlete contains several mentions of this new achievement. Not sure where else we'd need to add more in order to post. Schwinnspeed (talk) 22:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, a major legacy track and field record, no woman has ever jumped this high in open competition. Notable per time between record holders. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'm generally biased against sports-related blurbs but I don't think this is important enough. The coverage seems pretty routine. Johndavies837 (talk) 01:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if the blurb targets Women's high jump world record progression, which is what the story is about. Banedon (talk) 03:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no prose there at all, just data. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 06:47, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle - I think comparisons with the Tour de France stages record are unfair. In the high jump, you jump high. That's the objective. If you jump higher than anyone else in the competition, you win, and if you jump higher than anyone before, that's unambiguously the record. In the Tour de France, you're aiming for the lowest cumulative time, not the number of individual stages won. That's not to say the stages record isn't interesting (it is) or a great achievement (it is), but it's not raising the worldwide standard for the thing the contest actually measures, and this high jump record is. We also don't often post high jump and other athletics, relative to other sports, so it's a welcome bit of focus. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I have updated my !vote to be clearer. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:38, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment all these support votes are missing WP:ITNQUALITY: Yaroslava Mahuchikh has orange tagged sections, Women's high jump world record progression is just tables and uses one source (I have orange tagged it for that), 2024 Meeting de Paris has half a sentence on this world record. Regardless of the questionable WP:ITNSIGNIF, nobody has suggested a valid target article that meets ITNQUALITY by having a large update on this event and the article being good enough. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is only an improvement on the previous record by 1 cm (2.10 vs 2.09 m). Yes, its technically a new world's record, but it seems such a trivial gain in the larger picture. I also tend to agree that with as many track and field events and their individual records, its probably better to focus on the event and records broken rather than a singular one, unless that clearly smashed the previous record. --Masem (t) 12:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose I would support this if we weren't about to have the Olympics. I'm basically neutral, though, because there is a decent chance this will have rolled off in two weeks when we do post that. Kingsif (talk) 22:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admin comment As long as the article has an orange maintenance tag, it's not going to hit the main page. Beyond that, I don't see consensus to post at this point anyway. Schwede66 05:58, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question: As an Admin ddo you judge quality of comments? Some of the opposing arguments here are simply appalling and illogical HiLo48 (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely I do, Template:U. Schwede66 04:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't speak for Schwede, nor am I an administrator, but I believe administrators are bound to honoring community consensus regardless of their personal opinion on the merits of the prevailing argument. For instance, administrator XYZ could find it ridiculous that people are arguing against the notability of a new record in the high jump (as you evidently do, and I personally agree that it is a notable record and worthy of a blurb), but if the overall consensus ultimately disagrees with XYZ's perspective, then XYZ has to accept and respect that. To do otherwise is to supervote, which goes against the decision-making process of the Wikipedia community and can be grounds for censure or even sanction.

Having said that, there are exceptions to this rule—for instance, when the consensus among participants in a discussion goes against widely-accepted Wikipedia policy. Say, for instance, a musician has an article listing each of their unreleased songs. The article is nominated for deletion for being "cruft" and people cite things like "WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE" as a rationale for deletion. The consensus among participants is to delete, but the problem is that their rationales do not align with Wikipedia's inclusion policy; besides, the list itself is both well-written and adequately sourced, and was actually designated as a featured article at the time of the nomination. On that basis, the closing administrator determined that there was no consensus to delete the article despite the preponderance of votes against its inclusion, and his decision was upheld at WP:DRV. This is not a hypothetical situation, by the way—this was exactly what happened at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of unreleased Britney Spears songs. Yes, that discussion happened nearly 12 full years ago, but the principles adhered to at the time of its closure remain applicable today. Kurtis (talk) 05:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bur what we have here is a record that hadn't been broken for 37 years with somebody arguing against it because on average such records are broken every two years. That simply not logical, and must be ignored. HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC) HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At this time of year, the breaking of sporting records seems to be a daily occurrence. I gave a few examples above and, in my own casual viewing since then, I've noticed youngest-ever goalscorer in men’s major tournament history and Wimbledon's longest women's semifinal. And public interest in those records seems significantly greater than the high jump one. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:59, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that this one hadn't been broken for 37 years, surely you can see how irrelevant that comment is. HiLo48 (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The previous youngest goal scorer was Pelé in 1958, so that's 66 years ago. Is the number of years significant? What's the magic number? Andrew🐉(talk) 08:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping I'm going to disagree on the notion expressed above that admins should "judge the quality of comments" when assessing ITN consensus. Unlike other areas such as AFD and RM, where there are clearly-defined policies and guidelines at play, and closing admins use those as a lens through which to view the discussion, ITN has basically no rules. Other than quality requirements and those labelled as WP:ITN/R, and I suppose a basic requirement that a topic must be "in the news" there are no guidelines as to what is and isn't posted, and each story is judged by participants on its own merits. Ultimately, if editors aren't supporting this by giving it a clear majority of support votes then it won't be posted, regardless of how important you personally think it is.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do disregard votes likes "provincial sports trivia"; stuff that is without any basis of fact. Why would I give any weight to that? Schwede66 10:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Tquote Well, that explains a lot. Kurtis (talk) 10:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 7

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 7 Template:Cob

RD: Bengt I. Samuelsson

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Template:ITN candidate Swedish biochemist and Nobel laureate. 240F:7A:6253:1:95E7:6EC1:9755:1E3E (talk) 13:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose two orange tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of the wikibio is unsourced. After the intro, all remaining footnotes can be found at the end of the sentence on his death. Please add REFs to the rest of the wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jane McAlevey

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Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:25, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 French legislative election

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Template:ITN candidate Unexpected result, as the National Rally and their allies were originally predicted to get the most seats, but only came in third place after the NPF and Ensemble. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:08, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait. We still need a clearer idea of what the results were; this is a much murkier situation than last week's UK vote. (where Labour clearly won a decisive majority that lined up with expectations; contrast here where we have a surprise result) Also, given that even the article linked for "relative majority" itself is called Plurality, I would recommend the blurb actually use that to avoid confusion. Nottheking (talk) 21:57, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait the results sections is missing information once filled support Shadow4dark (talk) 20:22, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Propose ALTV unless a government is somehow formed. The Kip (contribs) 02:45, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd go with this if it becomes clear in the next few days that they are not going to be able to form a new government. For now I'd stick to Alt II until the dust settles. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support any of the proposed blurbs, with alt2 or 5 as my preference. Would support blurbing again if/when a new PM is chosen, since even though Attal resigned (and is continuing as caretaker) it doesn't seem like this will be resolved anytime soon. Davey2116 (talk) 03:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 or alt4 once it’s ready Those seem like the best blurbs. However, the “Potential outcomes and pre-election comments” subsection in the “Aftermath” section seems like it’s awkward now that the election has happened. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not my understanding of this at all, and appears to be a fringe interpretation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding comes from the Collins-Robert French Dictionary which is not fringe. It gives the meanings as refractory, rebellious, insubordinate, undefeated, unsubdued. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 6

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 6 Template:Cob

RD: André Drege

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Template:ITN candidate Norwegian cyclist. --Engineerchange (talk) 04:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Attention needed) RD: Joe Egan (musician)

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Template:ITN candidate Scottish musician and co-founder of Stealers Wheel. 240F:7A:6253:1:38AB:9905:A2DA:8D62 (talk) 01:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose not ready, article needs expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I agree with previous comment. Little more than a stub in substance. Ref (chew)(do) 06:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is now fully sourced. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 20:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Khyree Jackson

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Template:ITN candidate NFL cornerback recent death. --Engineerchange (talk) 18:26, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support RIP, a tragic death. Article is in a good enough shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support nothing holding back this article about an NFL player. Bremps... 21:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support and André Drege too. Both sportsmen of the same age who had their lives tragically cut short on the same day. Both articles seem good, though Jackson's is more detailed. 1779Days (talk) 23:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can nominate that one independently. Bremps... 01:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Date and place of birth are both unreferenced. Schwede66 10:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Reply Fixed. Typically on NFL player articles that information is pulled from the ESPN or NFL biography and not appropriately cited. --Engineerchange (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mirta Díaz-Balart

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate First wife of Fidel Castro. Gödel2200 (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose given the lack of detail in her article, which is rated Start class. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait there are some more references needed otherwise article is okay. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait More citations needed. Bremps... 22:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Masoud Pezeshkian elected President of Iran

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate He is elected president of Iran. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 06:02, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would imagine it was marked as ITNR because it was thought to be a general election. Looking at the three different elections that took place in Iran this year, it is not at all clear to me which one was the general election, so this might not be ITNR. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:34, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The president of Iran does not hold the highest political authority, but does have many of the powers of an executive president, and is not just a figurehead. Among the Reformist presidents, Khatami was generally seen as having a big influence; Rouhani's reformist actions were generally seen as less successful; Ahmedinejad's role as a hardliner president was generally seen as him being mostly in control of executive power. Relations between the West and Iran have changed significantly between Reformist and hardliner Iranian presidents. This does satisfy ITN/R in any reasonable interpretation of real political power and both national and international effects. Boud (talk) 19:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is any question of whether this election should be posted. But ITNR specifically says changes in the people who administer the executive of their country qualify, and according to the List of current heads of state and government article, that position is the supreme leader, not the president, so the election would technically not qualify for ITNR under that clause. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In Iran, the president is the head of government. See President of Iran. He chooses all ministers and cabinet members. The supreme leader is the head of state, but not the head of government. 175.159.120.175 (talk) 09:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue with ITN/R is that it assumes that only one position (in this case, the supreme leader) wields all of the executive power; it neglects to consider the fact that there can be other positions with some form of executive power (in this case, the president) that the main position itself lacks. The ITN/R status of "2023 Singaporean presidential election", which had a similar context, was debated under the same rationale (and later removed), though it was still ultimately posted. =JaventheAldericky= (Would you like to talk to me?) 14:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 5

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(Posted) RD: Liana Isakadze

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Template:ITN candidate Prominent Georgian violinist, child prodigy, all over Europe early, then also conductor and artistic director of the Chamber Orchestra of Georgia, festival creator internationally. The article was practically a mirror of her website, which is no longer live but there in an archived copy in German. Much better since we got a Strad obit today. The long lists of conductors and colleagues are not referenced other than her site, but are credible I think. Help by someone knowing Georgian wanted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slight oppose The stuff about Facebook is uncited. Listing a paragraph of names isn't the best way to present info to a reader. Otherwise, the article is alright. Bremps... 12:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The facebook thing can only be cited to her website, which I try to avoid. We could do it, or drop it, or find another ref. - I hate these lists, I really do, but - as I said above - I have no time to look for more detailed records of her music making. Repeating: help wanted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added the cite to her website. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... and also another, and began recordings. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have now several recordings, with a few reviews, Bremps. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great work on that, I'll Support. The name-dropping paragraph is still not ideal but I don't think it's bad enough to prevent it from being posted. Bremps... 23:47, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Stanley Moss

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Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 16:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question Are the books in his bibliography fine if they aren't cited (as they are effectively their own citation)? Anyway, the Amazon links certainly need to be removed so Oppose for now. Bremps... 04:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are their own citation, but they require ISBNs. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The even more fundamental problem is that the article is a stub, and we don't post those. Schwede66 05:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Vic Seixas

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Template:ITN candidate American tennis player. 240F:7A:6253:1:64C5:9819:81E5:D319 (talk) 23:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jon Landau (film producer)

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Template:ITN candidate American film producer. 240F:7A:6253:1:64C5:9819:81E5:D319 (talk) 23:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Awards and Filmography section needs sourcing and Career section needs a lot of expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:05, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 4

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 4 Template:Cob

(Posted) United Kingdom general election

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Template:ITN candidate Putting this out in front so we can get it ready as and when results come in overnight This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:34, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Clearly, we're going to need sources to use the second blurb re being a landslide, though I know the exit polls suggest it will be that way. --Masem (t) 22:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    BBC says "Labour landslide predicted", as do most other sources This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not just the BBC. Sky News, the Telegraph, the Guardian ... in fact most UK news sources ... are already using it on their front pages (although at the moment it of course says "predicted" or "expected"). But yes, stick with the original blurb, we can always change it later. Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Meh. I'm not going to get worked up over it, but FWIW I don't recall the word "landslide" ever being used in an election blurb before. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:03, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we rarely use such terms on the Main Page in my experience. Granted, I have been away for a while. If anything, we may choose to use a less bombastic phrasing such as "significant gain in seats", or something more British. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 00:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb. It's factual and to the point. We can update tomorrow after Sir Kier becomes PM. The votes are still being counted but there is no doubt who won. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support either original Blurb or AltBlurb II. (later purely among the implication that's part of ITN/R: that this will mean Keir Starmer becomes PM) Obviously, we'll be waiting for the official results (rather than just the exit polls) and such to make it official. Article appears to be in great shape; hopefully this quality will be maintained through all the official results being added. I'm somewhat neutral (mildly opposed) on whether we should bother describing the margin of the election. However, if there's an applicable superlative, (e.g, it break's Labour's old record for most seats won) then that would have a much more convincing argument to be mentioned on the front page. Nottheking (talk) 01:22, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb as it is the most concise. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb but wait until the full results come out. I don't really see much of a need for the blurb to indicate that the result was a landslide; the reader will see that immediately after going to the page. The blurb only needs to state who won the election. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:33, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb and wait Good article, important event. Results are pretty clear but post after the votes are fully done being counted Hungry403 (talk) 03:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think its fair to call it a landslide now Hungry403 (talk) 04:27, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Sunak just conceded, effectively. Toss-up between original blurb and alt-1. Moscow Mule (talk) 03:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb unless the ultimate seat count surpasses Labour's old record for most seats won, in which case support alt-1 or alt-2 and add the superlative, per Nottheking. FlipandFlopped ツ 04:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb as it's now official. Oppose alt blurbs until sources use the phrase "landslide" — Czello (music) 04:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with "landslide" wording; they're on course to 400, which is Blair numbers. Sceptre (talk) 04:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted As Labour has already got more than 50 per cent of the electorate seats (362 right now, with 326 needed for a majority), it's probably safe to post ALT0 at this point. I don't think it'll be long before "landslide" can be added to the blurb. Schwede66 04:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There have been other "landslide" elections. Have we ever used that term in an election blurb? -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not at all. I don't think we've ever done such a thing, and the Conservatives arguably won a landslide last time. I'm a little baffled as to why Schwede66 has suggested this and strongly recommend that no admin should change this.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT or ALT2 blurb as Labour has now won 400 seats, I think we're now ready to add "landslide" now. 92.27.253.187 (talk) 05:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support landslide. Davey2116 (talk) 06:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt-1 as it is more condense. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 06:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Majority would be a better word than "landslide". ITN should save the word "landslide" for the actual landslides that kill lots of people (they seem to have stopped counting in New Guinea). For elections, we should stick to words that more accurately describe the result such as supermajority. Simply winning a majority is a significant achievement when so many countries have systems that require complex coalitions such as we see in the current Netherlands blurb. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't generally use the term supermajority for this, in the UK. Secretlondon (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That doesn't matter because Labour don't seem to have quite that many seats (433 is two thirds of 650). The point is to use appropriate technical terms rather than colourful journalistic metaphors. In the Westminster system, the key thing is to get a "working majority". Andrew🐉(talk) 07:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose landslide or majority or anything else. Longstanding precedent is that we don't attempt to add "nuance" or editorialisation to election results, even those that are "disputed" or "near-unanimous" or whatever, and there's no reason to deviate from that here. The current simple blurb that they won is completely sufficient and should not be changed.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The convention in Britain is that a 100-seat majority is a landslide; Labour have won a 170-seat majority. If anything qualifies, this does. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What convention? See Landslides in the United Kingdom. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That seems a bit disingenuous, Andrew Davidson. See United Kingdom general election records#Most seats won by party (1945–present). The current result is just barely below the all-time post-war record. (though I don't see a need to change the blurb). Nfitz (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose landslide as an editorialising term. "Supermajority" isn't great either as the Parliament does not operate with a supermajority system as far as I know (no equivalent of, say, the 60-vote filibuster in the US Senate). Stating that Labour won a majority by themselves (and, when confirmed, that Starmer becomes PM) is the most objective thing to do. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In the Westminster system, a substantial majority is significant because it means that the PM can force through legislation without having to appease rebels and rivals in his own party. See the US House of Representatives for the difficulty of getting things done with a narrow majority. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I find it funny this was nominated before any seat was even called. It might be good to mention just how historic this win is, the worst result for the Conservative Party I believe in its entire 200 year existence. This is a pretty crazy result as the dominant party in UK politics is going extinct. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The popular vote for the Conservatives was still quite substantial while the vote for Labour was little changed. The result in seats was a typical quirk of the first-past-the-post system. The main novelty is the advent of Reform UK which got the next largest popular vote and so split the centre-right vote.
    What helped Labour is that their leader looks and sounds like a conservative -- a safe pair of hands, rather than a radical like Corbyn, a wild child like Boris or a city slicker like Rishi. It's interesting that our blurb calls him "Sir Keir Starmer", like a "knight of the shires". Andrew🐉(talk) 08:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I see that the title has been removed now as admins tussle over the blurb. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull. While obviously this is notable, 2024_United_Kingdom_general_election#Results is not updated. 12:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC) ~~ Jessintime (talk) 12:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Those look like numerical results once the full complete tally is known. The results that Labour won was based on factors like sufficient tallies from the various locals as well as candidates conceding that they lost, all reported in RSes. — Masem (t) 12:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Template:U There's currently 2 seats to go (out of 650), until those are declared, these "results" figures don't exist. But that doesn't change the outcome that Labour have won, a fact that was confirmed in reliable sources before this was posted. And the article has been updated with this information and aftermath, and so WP:ITNQUALITY is met. We have posted other countries in a similar state i.e. where 95+% of results are known and the election result is assured. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Standard practice for ITN has been to post once the general outcome has been confirmed, since it's rare to instantly get total figures for every single constituent election from any country. There will always be stragglers, so yes, there will be some small gaps in the data as everyone in the world waits for those stragglers. However, it remains that all the RSes have reported that Labour has won a majority of seats, and that won't change. And Keir Starmer has already been appointed Prime Minister. Nottheking (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll just reply here since this is pretty much moot. My concern is that we posted an article on an election with an entire results table left blank. Did we really need to wait until all 650 seats were called before updating it? I've seen other stories held up for far less. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 3

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RD: Jack Rowell

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Template:ITN candidate

Oppose multiple cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose issue persists. Bremps... 22:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Mark Cavendish

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate Paul W (talk) 20:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aficionados regard the result of the Tour de France as much more then the first person to crosss the finish line, but the non-cycling world is generally ignorant of such detail. So sadly, I agree. HiLo48 (talk) 07:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's a monumental achievement that has taken 50 years to break. It's not trivia. There's often major records on ITN, sports or otherwise (longest person in space etc) Torqueing (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is a huge 49 years old record, and yes it's newsworthy. Eddy Merckx should be mention in the blurb too. Mark Cavendish breaks Eddy Merckx’s 49-years-old record for most career Tour de France stage wins with 35th victory. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, while impressive, this still counts as sports trivia in view of ITN. For TDF, we post the winner. --Tone 07:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a record that has stood for a long time being broken, and a target article Mark Cavendish that's a GA. This is more in the news than the eventual TdF winners usually are (because it's a record that has stood for nearly 50 years that was thought unbreakable for most of that time), and that article is nowhere near the quality of Cavendish's article either. Monumental achievement with worldwide coverage, which is higher enough to meet the threshold of WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:01, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose Winning a stage in a multiple-day cycling race has absolutely no meaning. One may not win a single stage but eventually win the race. I don't see a reason to post a meaningless record. If it were a record set at one-day classics, it'd be a much stronger argument for posting, but it's clearly not. Note also that he's not finished half of the Tour de France editions he entered and was ranked well below 100th place in all editions he finished, so it's completely worthless to talk about any notable record here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's a sprinter, and they often don't complete all three weeks, different physiology. Where he finishes in the general classification is a complete irrelevance. Ericoides (talk) 12:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's why one-day classics exist – to make sprinters more competitive. A sprinter breaking a record in a race that he can barely finish is completely irrelevant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To claim "Winning a stage in a multiple-day cycling race has absolutely no meaning" suggests you have absolutely no understanding of cycling. See today's L'Equipe, which only devotes seven pages to the Cavendish record. Ericoides (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. I'm not personally supporting this item as of sufficient encyclopaedic interest for ITN, but the achievement itself certainly isn't insignificant. Stage wins on the Tour de France are a big deal and treated as such in reliable sources. Wikipedians' opinions on their relevance is what's "meaningless" here.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Reply I’ve been avidly following cycling about 18 years now, and that’s why I know that this record isn’t significant at all. In multiple-day cycling races, time is what counts, not the number of stage wins. You may say whatever you want about my understanding of cycling and cite zillion sources stating that this is a big achievement, but that won’t change the established fact that these stage victories won’t help Cavendish ever win Tour de France. This record is trivial as Ronnie O’Sullivan’s 1,000 century breaks achieved in 2019 or LeBron James breaking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s long-standing record for most points in the NBA.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's not trying to win the Tour; it's an event within an event. As David Millar said in his ITV commentary this afternoon, "the Tour de France is the world championships for sprinters." Ericoides (talk) 19:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This is trivia. Winning a record number of tours would be worth mentioning in the tour result post (which is, as noted, ITNR), but this is a mere footnote. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per all above. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 11:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose minor sports trivia. An impressive personal achievement but we can't post every similar record in every sport. When the race concludes, the winner can be posted per WP:ITNR. I recommend you work on improving the 2024 Tour de France article so that will be ready to go e.g. by adding prose summaries of each stage. Modest Genius talk 11:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support An amazing achievement, transcending the sport. Ericoides (talk) 12:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Dismissing this as trivia is absolute rubbish. The most notable cycling sporting event in the world has had a longstanding record broken that will go unchallenged for a very long time. The closest competitor to challenge his record is Tadej Pogačar who only has 12 stage wins at the moment. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Final note, after searching the archives I found numerous examples of prior posting of notable sports records being broken, so I don't see how there isn't precedence for posting this in some form or another. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Records based on competing and winning (or whatever the aspect) a number of times, which the chances of improving simply increase with the person participating in more events, are records that are ripe to be broken and not really fair. More approach records that would make sense are breaking race times or other measurable factors in a competitive sport, or achieving a certain type of scoring record within a single game and/or season. But as others have said, when the race is done and we post the result (per ITNR), it makes sense to possibly include this record too. — Masem (t) 16:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose I guess you had to be there. Call back when someone actually wins the race. CoatCheck (talk) 21:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Closed) 2024 Ukrainian coup attempt allegations

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate I noticed that nobody was talking about a foiled coup yesterday in Ukraine that major news outlets are talking about so I decided to make a page for it, I feel that this is just as notable as any other coup and should be included in the news. Scu ba (talk) 00:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huh. A quite worrying development of the ongoing war, but the (alleged) coup wasn't actually attempted, so oppose on notability. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 00:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sadly oppose per above. poor zelenskyy Ion.want.uu (talk) 14:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There have been a few assassination plots targeting the president as well over the past 2 years. And I believe there was a coup plot foiled shortly before the war. So unless something is at least attempted, like in Bolivia, I don't think it's worth posting. Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose respectfully. It seems like this was simply the arrest of four alleged Russophilic activists who were discussing a coup plot via instant messages. An actual attempted coup that could pose a real threat to Zelenskyy would definitely be notable, but an alleged coup plot that had already failed before anything could have even been attempted is not big enough to warrant a separate blurb for an event already covered in Ongoing.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 12:01, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This would only not be covered by ongoing if the coup had actually happened. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Vanilla Wizard. I'm not convinced this is notable enough for a stand-alone article, let alone ITN. Modest Genius talk 14:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

July 2

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(Posted) RD: Rick Cluff

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Template:ITN candidate Canadian Radio host and journalist. Ktin (talk) 14:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article quality seems alright. Bremps... 20:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jean Daubigny

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Template:ITN candidate French civil servant and criminal convicted of tax evasion. Jmanlucas (talk) 05:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:57, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It has a deprecated controversy section. Probably not postable as is. Bremps... 20:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Aydos Sadykov

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Template:ITN candidate Kazakh opposition figure who died after an assassination attempt in Kyiv. Article will need some sourcing work. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose biography section have some unsourced statements. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) BB(5) discovery

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate I guess the article needs work to be understandable to non-experts and should highlight more about the new discovery, but I think this is a big deal for computer science and mathematics. It's been 41 years since progress was made on this problem, it closely relates to the limits of mathematical knowledge and mathematical proof, it was a big online volunteer collaboration over several years, and it's one of the first new mathematical results to be formalized in a proof assistant contemporaneously with its announcement (which helped other mathematicians be more confident more quickly that the result was correct). It's also very likely the largest Busy Beaver number that humanity will ever be able to discover. So this is potentially the only progress on this problem that Wikipedia will ever be able to announce! Schoen (talk) 23:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support just beat me too it! Big thing in computer science tho Ion.want.uu (talk) 23:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Wow! Didn't follow it too closely, I'm surprised it was actually discovered. Science at ITN is always great, and, as Schoen says, this is likely the largest Busy Beaver number we'll be able to discover (for two-state Turing machines at least). Not only does the state space grow very fast, but these numbers are inherently uncomputable, meaning you can't just throw more computing power to find them, you need to go through mathematical proofs for each Turing machine. By the way, for anyone curious, the number is 47 176 870. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A lower bound on the sixth Busy Beaver number is 10⇈15, or 1010...15 times...10. Needless to say, we don't have enough space in this universe to even write it down. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose primary because the target article is terribly undersourced and is the symptom of being far too technical for an encyclopedia. Besides that, I'd like to see at least either a peer-review article or a more mainstream news source covering this, because as the Quantum article points out, this is more a curiosity than a breakthrough in mathematics. --Masem (t) 02:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This does not seem to be in the news. For comparison, I can easily show you more mainstream coverage of real beavers in my area of London (a project that I helped with myself). Andrew🐉(talk) 07:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Target article is extremely poorly sourced (indeed, the main paragraph explaining it has precisely zero sources) and is not written in anything like an accessible manner; we do not expect technical articles to be dumbed down but even the introduction to this article makes assumptions that the reader knows what a halting Turing machine, its "states", or transition tables are. It is unfortunate that a lot of computer science articles are like this. Black Kite (talk) 09:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, but unfortunately the article is nearly fully unsourced, and is nowhere near being ready for the main page. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:30, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. While I'm open to posting mathematical advances, there are multiple problems with this: a) The topic is extremely esoteric and doesn't seem to have any application - the 'applications' section of the article speculates about uses in principle but indicates they are all impossible in practice. b) The fifth BB number has been known since 1990, but was only conjectured not proven [14]. While proving it now is useful, it's hardly a surprise. c) There is no formal publication of this result. The team's own website announcement [15] states "we are currently working on a human-readable paper" i.e. it hasn't been written up yet, let alone peer reviewed. A peer-reviewed publication is a requirement for posting scientific news. d) There's little to no coverage in mainstream media, I couldn't find anything beyond that Quanta article. e) The article is incomprehensible to most of our readers, who would not learn anything from clicking on that bold link. So while I commend the nomination, I don't think this is suitable for ITN. Modest Genius talk 19:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability. There should be more news like this in encyclopedia on the front page. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Except that it's notability is questionable as the only independent source I've seen is the linked quantum magazine article. That fails the actual "ITN" part. — Masem (t) 22:44, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. Poorly-sourced article that doesn't explain why these numbers matter (certainly not to an extent remotely close to establishing main page notability), and if my bachelor's in mathematics is not nearly enough to comprehend the article, main page readers don't have a chance. -- Kicking222 (talk) 21:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not hard: I'm in the middle of an infinite coin row (all heads up). I read card 1 of 5. The heads up side says "1. leave tails up" "2. look to its immediate right" "3. do card 2 to it". Card 2-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 3". Card 3-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 4". Card 4-Heads says "1. leave tails up" "2. immediate left" "3. card 1". Card 5-Heads says tails/right/END. 1-Tails says tails/left/3 2-Tails says tails/right/2. 3-Tails is heads/left/5. 4-Tails is tails/left/4 5-Tails is heads/left/1. They just proved that you need ≥6 cards to end @ over 4,098 tails or after step 47,176,870 and these are the best possible cards. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that it's pretty easy to describe how to emulate the five-state Beaver. But in order for someone to care a lot about the behavior of these "cards", we might also want to connect this to "this is one of the purest ways to model and reason about what computers do, and what computers can potentially do". And indeed "the cards can do math, potentially as well as any other system can do math". Or maybe "computer programs' behavior is complex and hard to predict, in a very fundamental mathematical sense; people have now managed to fully analyze the behavior of some small computer programs, which was extremely difficult, and there's good reason to think humanity will never make it to the next step of fully analyzing the behavior of very slightly larger computer programs". Schoen (talk) 06:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I apologize if my reasons are short sighted, I know next to nothing about computer science. The article is very hard to understand for the average reader, and I fail to see how this discovery is used outside of the problem itself. Also missing citations Hungry403 (talk) 03:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - While the Busy Beaver problem is important in computability theory, and the discovery of a new member in a short and hard-to-determine sequence is very interesting, the combination of the two does not have any wider consequences. The discovery of BB(5) doesn't actually advance computability theory at all, and the number itself has no immediate wider applications. I also think the target article lacks a clear explanation for non-specialists, and is overall not ready for the home page. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Legendary sports competitor breaks a nearly 50 year longstanding record is largely opposed as trivia, but this isn't? Absurd. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not saying that this is the way things should be, but I don't think it should be a surprise that Wikipedia is more nerd than jock. Bremps... 19:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) Dick Schoof (Netherlands PM)

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate One interesting thing about this succession is that Schoof is not part of the coalition party. Mark Rutte was PM for 13+ years, will serve as the next SG of NATO (1 October), which was just made official on 26 June. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 19:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support because he succeeded 13-year incumbent Mark Rutte, and this concludes government appointment from the November 2023 Dutch election. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link it to the election. Doesn't have to be bold, but it's obviously correlated. Not with rutte at nato too.49.205.145.3 (talk) 09:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Uttar Pradesh stampede

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Article will need some work before it's ready. Estreyeria (talk) 13:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 1

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 1 Template:Cob

(Closed) 2024 Seoul car crash

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate --117.53.77.84 (talk) 05:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

RD: Robert Towne

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The more extensive the credits, the more pain in sourcing. Needs more citations all over. Just watched Chinatown too. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 02:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose various unsourced statements, cn tags and largely unsourced Filmography. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: June Leaf

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 13:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not ready entire work section have only two sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Tone issues, including usage of "we". Bremps... 20:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) José Raúl Mulino becomes President of Panama

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 21:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC) Updated image. --04:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support on notability. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:30, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hurricane Beryl

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Template:ITN candidate Category 4 hurricane which is still active. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: it is now a category 5. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I thought about nominating this article. One notable aspect about this hurricane is that it is the earliest Category 4 Category 5 on record in the Atlantic Ocean. If this gets posted, this information might be worth mentioning in the blurb. I have proposed an alt (which might need some tweaks). --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 21:21, 1 July 2024 (UTC) Updated alt. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 16:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Oppose. Full impacts aren't known yet, however the article body does not yet substantiate the "extensive damage" claim at the moment. The record, while interesting, is very much trivia, and a record for being category 4 is obscure. Cat 5 maybe we can talk, but not a category 4 record. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is a category 5. It got up to 165 mph. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the hurricane's impact to see the full extent of the damage. The hurricane is ongoing. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we know more about the human impact of the storm. It's early in the season, and both this storm and other storms may yet cause more damage. As it stands, I'd oppose, but I don't want to pre-empt things as the situation develops. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait For the most part, breaking specific intensity records don't warrant inclusion here. It might merit inclusion depending on impacts/ TornadoLGS (talk) 02:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait: Per others. At time of writing this, further land impacts are likely to occur in the coming week per the NHC forecast and model guidance. The full extent of this storm's impact has yet to be seen. Comment: Additionally, Beryl has recently attained category 5 intensity, breaking Hurricane Emily's record for earliest cat 5 storm in basin, though it is not expected to impact any land as a cat 5 storm. Changing to Support per others; this storm's impact is clearly notable, especially for the time of year and locations impacted. ArkHyena (talk) 07:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment: a high end category 3 would still cause severe impacts on Jamaica; to which it is headed towards them in the next day or so. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for impacts to be known, and for potential subsequent landfalls. While it is true that this storm is remarkable from a meteorological perspective, ITN posts based on the real world effects a storm has on populated areas. It is still very possible it could warrant posting in the future, but not right now.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 12:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb probably needs updating as its now Cat5 (and the earliest one at that) --Masem (t) 12:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem @DarkSide830. I have updated the alt. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 16:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Oppose A large hurricane in the middle of the ocean that isn't forecasted to make another landfall until it weakens substantially due to a significant amount of sheer in its path isn't quite notable enough for blurbing. Let's see what develops over the next few days. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – I think the Windward Islands impacts and record status are already enough before it hits Jamaica; no need to wait in my mind. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt version: (There has never been an earlier Cat 4 either; perhaps the blurb should say "Category 4 or Category 5" rather than just "Category 5".) It has broken multiple records, has killed at least 16 people so far, and is bearing down on Jamaica. After that it will move on toward Mexico. We should highlight it before it's all in the past tense. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep in mind that we summarize news, even current news. We aren't hear to be a weather warning system, and may be more appropriate to figure extent of damage after more time has passed. — Masem (t) 19:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Support. Although the hurricane is still active and the damage it will cause later on are still unknown, the damage it caused so far might be reasonable enough for the ITN. Also, I would like to propose a new blub: "Hurricane Beryl leaves at least 16 people dead across the Windward Islands and Venezuela." 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 22:20, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support "Armageddon." Bremps... 03:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Complete devastation and destruction of agriculture. Complete and total destruction of the natural environment. There is literally no vegetation left anywhere on the island of Carriacou," says Grenada Prime Minister Dickon Mitchell. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 03:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:@ITNA I think there is consensus enough to post, given that most of the the Wait votes come from before the hurricane had made landfall and caused extensive damage. Bremps... 17:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Just came here to say I find the current blurb very confusing. What is meant by "earliest-recorded"? e.b. (talk) 01:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Earliest in the Gregorian calendar (Jan 1 earliest, Dec 31 latest). It became category 5 half month before any other cat 5 in history. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:51, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And in this scenario, "recorded" is to acknowledge that this is the earliest verified category 5 storm, acknowledging that the vast portion of hurricanes in history, obviously, were not documented. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Attention needed: Blurb ready?] / (Posted as RD) RD/Blurb: Ismail Kadare

[edit]

Template:Atop


Template:ITN candidate Internationally renowned Albanian novelist. gobonobo + c 09:15, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Blurb truly a transformative figure and one of the greatest writer of our time and thank god, it has an legacy section that helps understand his impact. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Can’t say I’m familiar with him, but the legacy section defines his elevated significance quite well, and we did blurb Milan Kundera not that long ago. The Kip (contribs) 15:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb on notability Murnane, Munro, McCarthy, Byatt, Oe, Auster, Amis, Kundera, Barth ... Out of all the notable literary deaths of the past two years, Kadare was one of the greatest. There's a bibliography, so you know what that means. Sincerely, Dilettante 16:51, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So many passing recently, you’re right. I could argue (unsuccessfully of course) that all those you mentioned, except for A. S. Byatt and Martin Amis, should’ve gotten blurbs. Along with Louise Glück, who died last year and should‘ve gotten a blurb. Gerald Murnane (who you mentioned) is still alive I think, but I think he may deserve a blurb, too. I haven’t read anything by him yet. I think only Kundera got a blurb. And Paul Auster didn’t even get his RD posted, though it was ready to go on the last day of the deadline. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 04:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Murnane was a slip on my part. I think I meant Maryse Condé, another blurb-worthy figure IMO. There was a similar burst of deaths just under a decade ago, with Umberto Eco, Marquez, Le Guin, Toni Morrison, etc all within a few years. For my part, I'd support Amis as a prominent public intellectual if not for the fact that it would SNOW. There was a push for an Auster blurb, but it was shut down. Even I opposed that because in the US he's a fairly well-known and unique but, in Europe (especially France), he's just a particularly skilled author of Nouveau romans. His influence was low relative to his popularity.
    Murnane is IMO the second most skilled living novelist, behind Krasznahorkai,so I'd highly recommend him. Sincerely, Dilettante 15:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the Maryse Condé mention. Never heard of her, but I need to check her out. I need to read Murnane, too. I’m not so sure about Paul Auster and his popularity vs. influence. When I lived in Germany, every train station had a couple paperback Auster titles available, but we’re talking 15 years ago. If you “google” Paul Auster Rockstar you’ll get a half-dozen hits from European sources (ie., https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/arts24/20240501-the-rock-star-status-of-us-writer-paul-auster-in-france). But this doesn’t necessarily contradict what you said, because admittedly this “rockstar” status is kind of a publicity stunt that applied to Auster’s status in the 80s and 90s. He’s not really read or known by Americans today. Everything I’ve read by him kind of blows me away, so I’m biased. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 11:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb after fixing quality issues this is exactly what we should expect for a blurb able RD, an extensive discussion in the article about how they are a great figure. And this is a person I have not heard of but the type of person we should be highlighting at RD. Obviously there's an orange tag and a few smaller quality problems to be fixed before posting. Masem (t) 17:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Major, transformative literary figure. Khuft (talk) 19:43, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I tried to address the outstanding CN tags in the article. Sourced or put an ISBN for the English translations, but I do not have the time to source the complete works in Albanian. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 20:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Old Man Dies One sentence update about a Tirana hospital, years of ill health and reaching 88. Mundane obituary stuff. Big deal in the literary life, sure, but his death doesn't affect that in any way Template:S worth adding to his Career section. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:45, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    'Old Man Dies' is an obnoxious response to proposed stories of this kind. You're saying more about yourself than about the news by your repeated use of it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Old Man Dies is simply shorthand for the repeatedly shot-down sorts of obituaries that keep popping up around here, as if they're legitimate media events. There's no state funeral, no plausible sidebar potential and generally no reason to stay posted for a week or more alongside earthquakes, sporting celebrations and scientific breakthroughs. Especially where dozens of other notable recent dead cycle along underneath in the meanwhile, for doing the exact same thing. If you want to try and psychoanalyze an author of my depths from a mere quip, "be my guest", but you're going to get a lot wrong. I suppose I should say I was wrong about an RD not affecting literary life, because several non-readers here seem to suddenly think Kadare's someone worth thinking about reading. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How do you know whether or not someone's a non-reader? Most don't have a glaring userbox saying This user does not read books. Sincerely, Dilettante 16:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I mean people who haven't read a book by Kadare. Several of us said here we hadn't even heard of him, implying what that does. I certainly didn't lump you into that crowd, given your vote. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My bad. I misinterpreted what you meant by non-reader. Sincerely, Dilettante 20:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No worries. When I read you write "Byatt", part of me thought you meant Bray Wyatt by it. That's much worse. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Influential in his field (kinda think Munro should’ve been blurbed too but oh well). Article could be updated a bit better to reflect his death / reactions. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:22, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support Blurb - I'm not an expert, but the article seems to support well, with citations, the proposition that he was a genuinely outstanding figure in the literary world. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. I find it dubious that a person whom not many know is blurbed just because his peers praised him, while many people whom everyone knows, like Donald Sutherland, Christopher Plummer, Kirk Douglas and Olivia de Havilland, Cormac Maccarthy, Vangelis, to a lesser extent William Hurt, Angela Lanesbury, Harry Bellafonte.
He hasn't even got a Nobel Prize, we didn't blurb a great many guys who had one.
I don't think he is that transformative, I don't know his books, they weren't adapted to the screen notably.
I also wouldn't say his influence in Europe is large. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your list is mostly celebrities. Secretlondon (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would regard Vangelis as top musician, Cormac Maccarthy as accomplished writer, Donald Sutherland and Christopher Plummer as character actors, William Hurt as powerful dramatic actor. Lanesbury was first nominated for Oscar 80 years ago. Bellafonte was devoted activist. And Havilland and Douglas were just legends. Still are. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How influential are those actors? I've never heard an actor say "I saw William Hurt in Lost in Space and it was revelatory—it completely changed the way I act." At most actors are inspired by each other; it's rare their styles shift much. On the other hand, it's common for popular authors to cause significant shifts in the literary style du jour or the themes most covered.
With Kadare, you can also make an argument for political influence as a dissenter and activist. Sincerely, Dilettante 21:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, Lost in Space isn't even in top 20 Hurt's performances.
Let's see
[16]
[17]
[18]
I put dozens of Sutherland references last month. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Havilland literally changed studio system and the ways actors were treated [19]. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
notability does not always go hand in hand with popularity. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whether a death is still in the news by the time it's posted depends on popularity, though. That's the more important thing, blurbwise. Notability just determines whether the biography exists. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But enduring popularity across globe is notability.
I regard as the problem that in a competitive field top or upper tier representatives won't be considered, only top top top ones, while in a sport the best known player will be considered good enough for blurb.
81 wiki page for Sutherland, 30 for Willie Mays, 30 for Shane Warne, around 40 for Jim Brown at the time of death.
This all hardly makes sense.
I would assume blurb deaths are for cases where a person is so well known that it is news that they died, and everyone should know about it, and Wikipedia spreads this information. As in cases of Pele, Queen Elizabeth II, Sidney Poitier, Pope Benedickt XVI. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If we're going to use "popularity across the globe" as the new criteria for death blurbs, why stop there? Let's apply popularity across the board at ITN! New PM in the Netherlands? Who cares! Taylor Swift's outfit malfunctioned during a concert in Ireland! Kim Kardashian just renovated her luxury villa! Let's please focus on the really popular news. Khuft (talk) 21:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP does not consider fame or popularity as part of notability, because that feeds into the systematic bias of English and Western topics. We are an encyclopedia, the main page meant to displace high quality encyclopedic articles, and in this case, a person that has a thoroughly established legacy and impact on literature, an ideal encyclopedic topic, even if one hasn't heard of them before. Absolutely meets what we want the main page to reflect. Masem (t) 22:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More specifically, we're an English encyclopedia. Most English readers and writers exist in or know of this "Western world" of internettable common knowledge; these have always been the sort of people we work with and for. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've reminded you of this recently and it had no effect, so I'll just suggest "globularity" for this newfangled metric (assuming Khuft isn't kidding about that topless news in Ireland). InedibleHulk (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The key of what I'm saying is that just because the majority of readers and editors of en.wiki likely have not heard of this author because of being outside the normal English/Western sphere of influence (and I'm in that boat of having no idea who he was), should absolutely not be a valid point of opposition becasue that runs against the fact we cover all topics globally. The same argument, in reverse, came up with the Willie Mays blurb, in that he was a figure likely known to most American readers and editors but not to other parts of the world - but still demonstrated why he was a great figure in the field of baseball. Masem (t) 04:58, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now you're getting en.wiki (the thing that covers all topics globally) mixed up with "us" (WP:ITN, a tiny speck within the whole, where Western news comes first). This is hopeless. You win! InedibleHulk (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb? Is he famous for dying? HiLo48 (talk) 01:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's much more famous than he was two days ago. Sincerely, Dilettante 01:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Closed) New Indian Criminal Code comes into effect

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

(Closed) Sam Mostyn as new Governor-General of Australia

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate Businesswoman, climate change and gender equality activist and former AFL commissioner who has a medal named after her nominated to the highest office held by an Australian. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 02:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Governor-Generals are just ceremonial roles. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-oppose but I will note that we didn't post previous changes of viceroy/reine in Commonwealth realms This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The governor-general is mainly a ceremonial role, as mentioned by Ad Orientem --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Closed) United States President granted criminal immunity

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose — This is a standard and expected ruling that has no personal significance to the country, unlike Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Totally irrelevant for ITN. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not suitable for the ITN and the main page. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because it's an ongoing event as part of a larger legal process (Trump indictments) and wasn't a conviction or acquittal like the New York trial. It's not suitable for ITN. JohnAdams1800TALK 15:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because of the immense significance of this decision. ITN has had an anti-US bias that prevents most posters on here from recognizing the obvious importance of extremely significant news stories for far too long, and the opposition expressed above to one of the most noteworthy Supreme Court decisions in the lifetime of anyone reading this is an exceptionally good illustration of that. IntoThinAir (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both the topic and the blurb. The decision is more nuanced than described in the blurb. And ElijahPepe is correct that this is not a "major upset" (to use sports jargon). EvergreenFir (talk) 16:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose since this goes back to lower courts to rule what actions are or aren't immune now, which most pundits I've seen will still leave some of the table. If anything, the three decisions to nuke the administrative state (Jarsky, Loper Bright, and corner Post) are actually far more impactful but even then not ITN worthy material. Masem (t) 17:30, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

  1. ^ https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20240719-student-protesters-storm-prison-bangladesh-death-toll-tops-100-dhaka
  2. ^ https://variety.com/2024/politics/news/bangladesh-internet-shutdown-student-protests-deaths-1236078025/
  3. ^ https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/19/bangladesh-imposes-communications-blackout-as-protest-violence-continues
  4. ^ https://apnews.com/article/bangladesh-student-protests-violence-internet-shutdown-622c6c464c47860afee293e80550c051
  5. ^ https://apnews.com/article/trump-vp-vance-rubio-7c7ba6b99b5f38d2d840ed95b2fdc3e5
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