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October 31

[edit]
October 31, 2024 (2024-10-31) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Greg Hildebrandt

[edit]
Article: Brothers Hildebrandt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: With his brother, an major illustrator that did a bunch of famous movie posters (like the original Star Wars one). Note that he and his brother share a page for their bios which makes sense, they had near equivalent careers. Masem (t) 21:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I think this is pretty close. While only 1 CN tag, this is for the paragraph that lists a large proportion of his works, so feel like this would benefit from a reference prior to posting. SpencerT•C 04:22, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Trevor Whymark

[edit]
Article: Trevor Whymark (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Ipswich Town striker. 240F:7A:6253:1:C23:A486:F543:2076 (talk) 08:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: David Davin-Power

[edit]
Article: David Davin-Power (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTÉ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A little short but well referenced. Needs information about death. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Masud Ali Khan

[edit]
Article: Masud Ali Khan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Daily Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Works unreferenced and two citation tags need adressing, otherwise looks fine. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 30

[edit]
October 30, 2024 (2024-10-30) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Matt Peacock

[edit]
Article: Matt Peacock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article looks good. Updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:11, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 World Series

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 World Series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In baseball, the Los Angeles Dodgers defeat the New York Yankees to win the World Series (MVP Freddie Freeman pictured). (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 03:55, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tahar Zbiri

[edit]
Article: Tahar Zbiri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Algerie
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article looks good. Updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Gang war in Haiti

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 02:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Gang war in Haiti (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: "This is effectively a civil war". Article needs updating with the 2024 Pont-Sondé attack and the recent attacks in Port-au-Prince. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While yes, this is ongoing, the problem is that the article is seeing very little updates and, as the nominator points out, the recent major developments are not covered yet. Articles in ongoing need to be constantly updated. Tone 09:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose based on lack of media coverage. –DMartin 07:32, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Indian bomb hoaxes

[edit]
Nothing more has happened since this was nominated and as such, it has now gone stale. Schwede66 23:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Indian bomb hoaxes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Over 100 flights across Indian airlines received bomb threats on Tuesday, adding to over 510 hoax threats in 16 days, mostly via social media (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 2024 Indian bomb hoaxes, 510+ hoax threats in 16 days
Alternative blurb II: ​ Over 500 hoax bomb threats target Indian airlines.
News source(s): CNN The Guardian BBC NBC NewsAl Jazeera Times of india
Credits:

Article needs updating
 Spworld2 (talk) 06:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This may be better for ongoing. I'll make an altblurb here, though. Departure– (talk) 13:57, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yeah, seeing as this is since April, I strongly suggest this goes into ongoing instead of getting a blurb. Altblurb 2 proposed. Departure– (talk) 13:59, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, ongoing is for stories where there is near daily news updates, not simply because an event has has a long tail. The dates on the target page suggest there were only a few bursts of activity related to these threats and thus fails the idea of near daily coverage. — Masem (t) 14:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is definitely worth getting a blurb at least. Manumaker08 (talk) 17:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The incidents seem too disparate and include routine vandalism that we see all the time on Wikipedia. We need some long-term statistics and analysis to understand how this compares with the usual background noise. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:33, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The included news sources make it clear that this is highly unusual and increased significantly in recent weeks, and not "usual background noise" or "disparate and include routine vandalism". Tube·of·Light 04:07, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose glancing over the issue, there seems to be no connection between the various bomb threats. Other than a chunk of them being students... from different schools across the country. Yes there are an abnormal amount of bomb threats, but as far as I can see it's not because there is a concerted effort by a single group. Scuba 15:57, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 Cuba blackouts and the United States embargo against Cuba

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to repost. Stephen 02:41, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Cuba blackouts (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After 8 days nationwide blackouts across Cuba, the UN General Assembly votes 187-2-1 in favour for the 32nd time for a resolution calling the United States to lift its 64-year-long embargo against the country. (Post)
News source(s): UN News Việt Nam News Hindustan Times AP Anadolu Ajansı
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: The blackouts were not precedented and widely reported by the media, however the article definitely needs more expansion. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:20, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose The blackout article was already posted - albeit for less than 6 hours. Also, a non-binding UN vote isn't enough to force action, especially given it's the 32nd one of this same goal. If the embargo actually gets lifted, that's another story. Departure– (talk) 12:27, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, an UNGA vote calling almost unanimously for the blockade to be lifted every time for half the time this lengthy blockade has been in place should, I think itself, be significant. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:50, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My nomination of the General Assembly's vote to get Israel to have a ceasefire in Palestine went nowhere a month or so ago, so I wouldn't be so sure about that (as much as I'd wish this was ITN worthy). Departure– (talk) 12:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the context of the voting this time should make the blackouts and it newsworthy to readers of this encyclopedia from around the world, who can then draw their own judgement about the situation playing out. Viva Nicolás (talk) 13:04, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A UN resolution is not the same as the actual lifting. If the US actually did lift it, that would be a key news point. (Also I will point out the story around the blackouts was nominated but I don't think got to the quality needed). --Masem (t) 12:27, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The blackout article was, oddly enough, posed yesterday after the nomination had rolled off the ITN main candidate page. It was up very briefly and was already stale. Departure– (talk) 12:30, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    IMO, the first blurb was not on ITN for nearly long enough for everyone worldwide to see; and furthermore, the protests were very marginal compared to previously, to say the best. Anyhow, this UN vote seems to make a much clearer point to me about the views of the wider world than a small group of loud activists based in Florida that have been washing articles this encyclopedia, mainly related to Cuba & Venezuela, to fit their own views. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Discuss content, not contributors, please. If you think there is sock or meat puppetry going on in these topic areas, please present that evidence at appropriate boards. — Masem (t) 13:13, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, will do that after I wake up the next morning in Australia :) Viva Nicolás (talk) 13:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem this is not this user’s first time making accusations of bias against them on Wikipedia, and the previous instance went nowhere. The Kip (contribs) 17:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose already posted the blackout. Scuba 14:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blackout has already been posted, and the UN vote has not caused the embargo to be lifted. If the embargo is lifted, that would be significant enough for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:16, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 29

[edit]
October 29, 2024 (2024-10-29) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

(Posted) October 2024 Spain floods

[edit]
Article: October 2024 Spain floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Floods in Spain kill over 60 people. (Post)
News source(s): RTÉ
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Surprised this wasn't nominated already. Sixty dead (at least) by nature in Western Europe is a huge story, particularly in a drier country. I know nothing about natural disasters or other scientific topics so I welcome alternative blurbs Unknown Temptation (talk) 14:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The disaster has left, at the time of writing, at least 72 dead, many missing, many more displaced and huge property damages. It is at a comparable scale to the very consequential 1957 Valencia flood . Milo8505 (talk) 14:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Teri Garr

[edit]
Article: Teri Garr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Masem (t) 17:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. The article is generally well cited, some WP:DRIVEBY tagging isn't good justification to not post it. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 02:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's currently borderline per WP:ITNQUALITY:

    Articles should be well referenced; one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article ... Lists of awards and honors, bibliographies and filmographies and the like should have clear sources.

    —Bagumba (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, 69 references carry the page along. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. Now only 1 CN tag. SpencerT•C 06:28, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Akua Donkor

[edit]
Article: Akua Donkor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Citinewsroom
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ghanaian politician who was contesting the 2024 general elections. Heatrave (talk) 12:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2021–present Bulgarian political crisis

[edit]
No support for posting this. Schwede66 19:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021–present Bulgarian political crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Free Europe, TVP World
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Given we are unlikely to post October 2024 Bulgarian parliamentary election as it hasn't broken the deadlock, and that we had an almost unprecedented 7 elections in 3 years all resulting in not much progress, perhaps it is worth adding this to ongoing. There is no rule saying that it has to be a military conflict or sporting event to be ongoing, a political crisis can be a good candidate for addition. Most recent election needs adding to the article. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominator comment if we are going to invoke WP:IAR not posting these elections every 3-6 months or so, then we can use this as a suitable replacement, nowhere does it say we cannot. Whereas we usually expect articles to have ongoing coverage, this firstly isn't impossible to rectify, but also it is only natural that this will get more attention around election time, I think this should be factored in when considering. The article can easily be filled with coalition talks/breakdowns in between elections accordingly and this gets lots and lots of coverage in Bulgaria, despite the election fatigue. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. A crisis that only merits blurb levels once an election happens twice or so a year is insufficient for ongoing. General elections are ITNR and those should be posted. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 22:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 28

[edit]
October 28, 2024 (2024-10-28) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

  • A team of archaeologists announce the discovery of more than 6,000 ancient Mayan structures hidden by vegetation in the southeastern Mexican state of Campeche, including a city of pyramids they dubbed Valeriana. (DW)

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Franz Kamphaus

[edit]
Article: Franz Kamphaus (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesschau
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A German bishop who opposed the pope and was a model for humility and serving the community. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per above. Rynoip (talk) 22:41, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jamshid Sharmahd

[edit]
Article: Jamshid Sharmahd (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deutsche Welle
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German-Iranian journalist executed in Iran yesterday Zwerg Nase (talk) 14:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Article is in good shape. Prodrummer619 (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: We say he is a journalist (as does some of the references) but it's not clear what he has written, they seem to be saying his movement's website. He doesn't seem to have ever written for an independent publication. Secretlondon (talk) 10:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We should remove "journalist". The hope was obviously, to give Sharmahd some kind of immunity. Grimes2 (talk) 17:43, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I did some more cleanup on this. Neutralitytalk 18:04, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Renato Martino

[edit]
Article: Renato Martino (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Catholic News Agency, Vatican News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian Roman Catholic cardinal. 240F:7A:6253:1:550B:B06A:7D69:455A (talk) 04:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apostolic Nuncio section needs more references. Prodrummer619 (talk) 15:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Ballon d'Or

[edit]
Article: 2024 Ballon d'Or (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, Rodri wins the Ballon d'Or and Aitana Bonmatí wins the Ballon d'Or Feminin. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

 Heatrave (talk) 22:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Journalists voting for the "best player" in the world isn't very notable, and there's already criticism that it's not fair to single individuals in a team sport. Furthermore, we already post too many football stories every year so this one is really redundant. This is very similar to the NBA Most Valuable Player, which we've never posted and will probably never do.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality; article is mostly tables. However, I do find the tepid feeling of ITN towards this award to be odd. Last nominated in 2021 to heavy opposition, and not nominated since. I get the point of opposing individual sporting awards, but soccer/football is the world's largest sport and relevant in discussion in most countries in the world, and the Ballon is the sport's highest honor. I think this is particularly relevant in a sport where there are so many prominent leagues, as most sports the best league's MVP is considered the greatest player, but with soccer, the best player could be in England, France, Germany, Spain, etc. To this end, I do believe this item should merit some discussion, but there should be some expansion of the Ballon article, whether it ends up being the target or not. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:57, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have no issues on notability (it's the lead story on every sports page in Europe, and - especially in Spain - it's a leading news story as well), but the quality is lacking at the moment. Black Kite (talk) 09:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support imo one of the most significant ballon d’ors in years. Big news. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 06:56, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both on principle and quality. We already post at least 7 football stories per year (see WP:ITNR) and I don't think this award is important enough to justify another one. As others have noted, this is a team sport with objective results - a subjective individual award isn't as important as the outcomes of actual tournaments. Also, the article is in a terrible shape - purely tables and a short paragraph about Real Madrid(!). Modest Genius talk 14:02, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Biggest award that can be won in association football. In my view this should be ITN/R, but fine. Article meets notability requirements TNM101 (chat) 16:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Attention needed) RD: Paul Morrissey

[edit]
Article: Paul Morrissey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American film director known for his early association with Andy Warhol. Thriley (talk) 16:26, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article has no problems at a glance. Rynoip (talk) 19:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 27

[edit]
October 27, 2024 (2024-10-27) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Edzard Reuter

[edit]
Article: Edzard Reuter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesschau, Bundespräsident
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: CEO Daimler Benz. The article was poorly referenced, I've added a lot. Grimes2 (talk) 15:29, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John F. Keenan

[edit]
Article: John F. Keenan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American judge. Staraction (talk | contribs) 05:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Uzbek parliamentary election

[edit]
Article: 2024 Uzbek parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Uzbekistan Liberal Democratic Party wins the 2024 Uzbek parliamentary election which was criticized for lack of opposition participation. (Post)
News source(s): [3][4]
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Article needs serious work, but it is ITN/R, the results are in and I added them Scuba 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Evo Morales assassination attempt

[edit]
Editors are clear that this isn't ITN-worthy. Schwede66 08:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Evo Morales (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Bolivian president Evo Morales (pictured) survives an assassination attempt targeting his vehicle. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former president of Bolivia, Evo Morales (pictured) survives an assassination attempt targeting his car.
News source(s): BBC News CNN
Credits:

Evo Morales was really popular. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 08:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose not enough coverage or content. Scuba 14:47, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Event is not notable enough for an ITN blurb as he is a former president of Bolivia. Also, the section about the assassination attempt itself is far too short. TNM101 (chat) 16:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I note that we did post an attempted assassination of a former president not that long ago. However, this entire event has had no casualties of any kind and may in fact just be hearsay, so there's no merit in posting it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Aside from his own statement, little information is known about this attempted assassination. Additionally, there is no separate article yet for the said attempt; in fact, the specific section in his article is still three sentences long as of this writing. Vida0007 (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • A separate article wouldn't necessarily be needed if there was little else to say. We do not need separate event articles for every event (this goes against NOTNEWS) — Masem (t) 01:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: It wouldn't be the first time that Evo Morales voices a conspiracy theory of evil people going after him. Unless there are further elements to back this, it's like the kid who cried wolf. Cambalachero (talk) 02:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Asian Netball Championships

[edit]
This isn't getting the love. Schwede66 08:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Asian Netball Championships (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In netball, Singapore win the Asian Netball Championship by defeating Sri Lanka in the final. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In netball, the Asian Netball Championship concludes with Singapore defeating Sri Lanka in the final
News source(s): The Straits Times
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Singapore won the Asian Netball Championships title after a gap of 10 years and Asian Netball Championships is considered a high-profile tournament in netball after the World Cup. Abishe (talk) 00:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed ITN/R label only the World Cup is listed. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality Article is nowhere close to expected standards to cover a tournament-type event. And given that netball does not have as great a follow as compared to assc. football or cricket, its hard to justify anything else but the ITNR World Cup item. Masem (t) 01:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality and notability Very niche single sex sport and this is not the top tier competition in it nor is it a worldwide event. Furthermore the article is very poor quality, short, missing subsections, sections which are just stat dumps, paragraph spacing all over the place, the lead constitutes most of the article, sections are incomplete, no description of the finals and many, many other quality issues. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment@Abcmaxx: I added the description of the final match. Will address the concerns as per everyone's wishes. Abishe (talk) 02:47, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not important enough as a sporting event. Tradediatalk 11:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article and especially the description of the Final fails WP:NPOV. Also not sure about the inclusion of only India and Sri Lanka's squads in the article. Furthermore, as Abcmaxx mentioned, not a top tier competition for a single gender sport and lacks significant mainstream coverage.TNM101 (chat) 14:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as far as I can tell this is a regional sporting event which isn't ITN notable. Scuba 15:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Lithuanian parliamentary election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Lithuanian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Social Democrats, led by Vilija Blinkevičiūtė (pictured), win the Lithuanian parliamentary elections after the second round. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Results have been announced. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support article looks in good shape. Scuba 01:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance as this will no doubt result in a change in government, with the Social Democrats returning to power after 8 years in opposition. Oppose on quality for now as the article could still do with some work; two sections are orange tagged and the lead is absurdly short for an election article. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    All these issues have been fixed now. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Significance is certainly there per WP:ITNELECTIONS, and especially since this is a complete upheaval of the government. As for the article's quality: I took care of one of the two orange-tagged sections mentioned by Grnrchst. I will admit that the article is dominated by tables and numbers, but that is typical for an article on an election. It would be nice to have a bit more prose concerning issues such as the background of the election, the course of the campaign, and stances taken by parties / arguments made in debates. Currently the background section provides an inkling of this, but given that it glosses over "the COVID-19 pandemic in Lithuania, 2020–2021 Belarusian protests and the Belarus–European Union border crisis and the Russian invasion of Ukraine" in one sentence there is definite room for improvement. Overall I'd say the quality is sufficient though. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 18:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Admins willing to post ITN: can we post this? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted I think there's still room for improvement, but after tidying up the lead a bit, I reckon it's good enough. Schwede66 00:22, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) October 2024 Bulgarian parliamentary election

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 23:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: October 2024 Bulgarian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ GERB–SDS wins the most seats in the October 2024 Bulgarian parliamentary election, however, fails to break the country's long running political deadlock (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ GERB–SDS wins a plurality in the Bulgarian parliamentary election
News source(s): [5] [6]
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Article needs to be updated with results and aftermath. But it is ITN/R. Scuba 19:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
altblurb aas succinct.2A00:F3C:A282:0:352B:A597:2C95:67BA (talk) 07:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now If a government is successfully formed, then I'd support a blurb at a later date. But as of now, unfortunately Bulgaria having another election isn't big news. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:21, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Election results with plurality are not unusual.Sportsnut24 (talk) 11:09, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, but this is the seventh election the country has had in 3 years, because none of them have resulted in the formation of stable governments. If a Bulgarian election results in the formation of a government, that is what would be newsworthy. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Japanese general election

[edit]
Article: 2024 Japanese general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the 2024 Japanese general election, the LDP-led ruling coalition loses its majority in the House of Representatives. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The long-ruling LDP despite winning the 2024 Japanese general election, loses its majority in the House of Representatives.
News source(s): Reuters, BBC News, FNN, The Guardian
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Updated: now clearly, the LDP-led coalition lost its majority held since 2012 (by NHK Japan) , this election is the most significant Japanese general election in at least 10 years. Haers6120 (talk) 15:25, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: There is already the possibility that the LDP could re-invite some of the independents they removed from the party (Its in many discussions in news sources), which could give them a option of a majority, but all votes need counted to be sure. And both apposing main parties are also likely to attempt to get a majority by trying to work with smaller parties, so this maybe isn't as clear cut as say, 2024 UK general election. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:04, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For sure, it is too early to say that the government formation; nevertheless, it is the first time since the 2012 election that the LDP-led coalition failed to win a comfortable majority in the House of Representatives. Haers6120 (talk) 17:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It no longer looks like the LDP have a chance from the ballot box, the current count now has the opposition as crossing the 233 threshold. But, with some off the cuff math, with 22 undeclared seats, and around ten ish independents the LDP could take back, its gonna be a close "win" for either side. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:26, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's why this election is significant :)
By the way, this NHK election portal (although in jp) may provide more up-to-date election result info. Haers6120 (talk) 17:36, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do think math wise, in the end, even with changes, it will likely lean CDP and all other parties, but it may just be split house. Although, with three seats left, it kinda looks like the final total could be a 214-251, which, even with some flips of independents, would not be enough for LDP to have 233. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:46, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Ishin (JIP) may become the kingmaker. Haers6120 (talk) 18:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ishin already said their not going the LDP's way, so likely.... TheCorriynial (talk) 18:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's hard to say, given the significant ideological differences between CDP and JIP, the JIP may reverse its decision during the coalition talks. But still we never know. Haers6120 (talk) 18:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Point aside, its now pretty clear LDP have lost. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 26

[edit]
October 26, 2024 (2024-10-26) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Jim Donovan

[edit]
Article: Jim Donovan (sportscaster) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American sportscaster. SpencerT•C 04:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Georgian parliamentary election

[edit]
Article: 2024 Georgian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The parliamentary election in Georgia results in no clear winner amid allegations of ballot stuffing and voter intimidation. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Georgian Dream wins the parliamentary election in Georgia amidst allegations of voting irregularities.
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The most important election in the nation's history and key turning point. Everyone has declared themselves the winner, increasingly quite clear the vote wasn't entirely fair which was expected given the ruling party's past comments and links to Russia. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on quality as the more you scroll down into the page the more unsourced paragraphs you see, especially in lines describing the parties themselves. Maybe some of them would be better off as excerpts? GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:52, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only see a few citation needed tags though? It looks well sourced to me but it is a long article. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:58, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For instance check the Labour Party section towards the end. It's got only a single source, less than what I would consider ideal for a current election article. On other aspects of quality though it's looking good with 284 sources and plenty of prose. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:06, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There will be protests tomorrow (today), nevertheless with over 90% counted, GD has won. It's not gonna be a Moldovan colored revolution like a decade+ ago. Also fitting both get on there. support.Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Although there are little bit of cn tags, the article is well sourced and well written. I dont think and article with over 200 references is of low quality, comparing to just 6 cn tags. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 11:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have improved the cn tags now. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 14:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, quite an important election regionally and geopolitically. Article good enough. Nsk92 (talk) 12:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait if I understand the results right, there's still no clear winner by the counts and that's still happening so an "official" result will be known in a day or so. Of course, one party appears to be claiming victory, another is claiming the election was stolen, and looks like protests are likely. This would also help to expand the results and aftermath sections, which are nowhere close to the quality to capture the confusion in the wake of the election. --Masem (t) 14:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Like with any foreign political involvement or electoral fraud cases we may never know the true winner though, so the result is unlikely to be clear regardless of what happens now. If there are widespread protests then it would likely require a separate article anyway, like post-Belarussian elections did. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:12, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There would be an announced winner, though whether that's considered legitimate or not should be discussed should that be an issue, but it's not like, say, 2000 with Bush v Gore holding up the results of the elections. The count needs to be finished and the results announced. If it were a result too close to call, requiring further vote counting or secondary elections, that would be a story. But it still seems that the vote counting is still ongoing, its too close for anyone to neutrally be declared a winner. — Masem (t) 20:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We always accept the results announced by the official authority, which, in this case, is the Central Election Commission (CEC). If the results were falsified and the election was stolen, the CEC should take appropriate actions. What the international community thinks is completely irrelevant as this election is an internal affair of Georgia. At the end of the day, the Georgian state authorities decide whether the country will move in a pro-Western or pro-Russian direction. Our business here is to post the election results per ITN/R. I personally don’t care what’s their choice as it doesn’t affect me too much. I visited the country last year, and it’s really very beautiful with rich culture, majestic landscapes and very delicious cuisine.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support regardless of if the (clearly faked) results are challenged, this is the result of the election. We posted the Russian election, no reason why we wouldn't post this either. Ensuing protests can be their own blurb later down the road. Scuba 19:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment With 99.96% of the votes counted, Georgian Dream won 89 out of 150 seats in the Georgian parliament. How does this suggest that there’s no clear winner?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The vote wasn't fair and hasn't been accepted by election observers nor the opposition when there are different voting outcomes claimed by pretty much everyone involved. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:27, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I mentioned in my comment above, we accept the results announced by the election authority (in this case, the Central Election Commission), not what the opposition or the international observers say, and this is exactly what is used in the article’s infobox and body. If there’s a more reliable vote counter, it should be in the article.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support and added altblurb. Georgian Dream seems to be the winner, but noted that the election is in dispute. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 01:26, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Needs attention) Israel strikes Iran

[edit]
Stale; older than the oldest item on the main page. Schwede66 18:49, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: October 2024 Israeli strikes on Iran (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel launches missile strikes across Iran in retaliation for earlier Iranian strikes in Israel this month. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Israel conducts air strikes in western Iran in retaliation for Iranian strikes on Israel earlier this month.
News source(s): https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-iran-strike-retaliation-live-updates-rcna177303
Credits:
Another development in the Iran - Israel proxy conflict. Not so much proxy any more, however. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 25

[edit]
October 25, 2024 (2024-10-25) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Phil Lesh

[edit]
Article: Phil Lesh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bassist and occasional singer in the Grateful Dead. DriveAllKnight (talk) 19:57, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support now the article has been cleaned up. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Abdelaziz Barrada

[edit]
Article: Abdelaziz Barrada (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News Morocco World News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Moroccan Footballer. Another recent footballer death.TNM101 (chat) 15:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose as incomplete per WP:ITNRD and WP:ITNQUALITY. A page must be "Updated, including reliably sourced confirmation of their death"; "Articles should be a minimally comprehensive overview of the subject, not omitting any major items". He played for five clubs after Marseille and that's not mentioned at all, even the bare minimum of stories of him signing for them. We wouldn't post a singer if their last five albums weren't even mentioned, to use an analogy. The templates show he was chosen for the 2013 Africa Cup of Nations and that's not mentioned at all in the prose, and would be very easy to cite. Unknown Temptation (talk) 15:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Rohini Godbole

[edit]
Article: Rohini Godbole (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian physicist.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kim Soo-mi

[edit]
Article: Kim Soo-mi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Korea JoongAng Daily
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

South Korean actress wizzito | say hello! 02:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 24

[edit]
October 24, 2024 (2024-10-24) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Tom Jarriel

[edit]
Article: Tom Jarriel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American television news reporter. Thriley (talk) 21:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jeri Taylor

[edit]
Article: Jeri Taylor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Writer and producer for Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Voyager. 107.115.33.41 (talk) 06:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Amir Abdur-Rahim

[edit]
Article: Amir Abdur-Rahim (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tampa Bay Times, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, USF
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American basketball coach. The Kip (contribs) 23:09, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Julia Hawkins

[edit]
Article: Julia Hawkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American centenarian sprinter. ForsythiaJo (talk) 19:22, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Mozambican general election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Mozambican general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Daniel Chapo is announced as the winner of the 2024 Mozambican presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Daniel Chapo is announced the President-elect of Mozambique following deadly protests against his party due to voter fraud during the 2024 Mozambican presidential election.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

First time making a blurb nomination (actually, I think there was one other time previously). Hope I'm doing this right. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:09, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the nomination, but this has to wait the whole election is a bit of a mess with two people claiming to be winner. Once this is cleared up I'd support it's inclusion. Scuba 16:13, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm confused: is this a general or presidential election? Also surely ITN/R and if not why not? Abcmaxx (talk) 16:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • There's a parliamentary election and a presidential election held concurrently (thus 'general election') – not sure if parliamentary results are to be included or just presidential? I added that its ITN/R. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Shouldn't these be two separate articles then or is it just one vote which decides both? Abcmaxx (talk) 18:01, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      From what I have seen, the standard practice is that there always exists a "general election" page that consolidates the overview in cases where a nation has multiple elections at once. If there are enough active editors, those articles are then spun off into separate pages. It depends from place to place, typically with countries having higher user traffic getting those spun off articles more often. At the end of the day though, it is arbitrary. TLDR, no, the general election page is standard practice, and there is not a single vote that is cast which decides both. Ornithoptera (talk) 05:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The article is just very confusing in its current form though, it conflates both elections; yes they were held simultaneously but I would vote for a split. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:39, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality but support in principle as ITN-R This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 02:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready. The article is in a poor shape. It shouldn't be split (as suggested above), but it should do a much better job of explaining that there were separate elections for the president and parliament held on the same day. The lead is woefully inadequate, and the results tables are empty. The 'aftermath' section is longer than the rest of the article, which is a problem for WP:PROPORTION. Needs work before it could be posted. Modest Genius talk 18:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was only suggesting a split due to the disconnect and conflation of the two in the article. However looking at the 2019 Mozambican general election this article should follow the same format. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Most countries with presidential systems have synchronized elections, are all positions are voted upon on a single day. Some countries which have deeper coverages of individual elections do get separate election articles but for most it's just on one article such as this one. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ready with Alt results are in, we might be making another post about Mozambique in the near future if the protests continue to be deadly and continue to escalate. Scuba 14:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted I'll hit the save button as soon as the image is protected. Schwede66 19:06, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gary Indiana

[edit]
Article: Gary Indiana (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Artnews
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American writer and art critic. Thriley (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ron Ely

[edit]
Proposed image
Ron Ely starred as Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze
Article: Ron Ely (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He died in September but the death has only just been announced. He was a famous Tarzan on TV back in the day and was engaging as Doc Savage too. As a famous face, he's another good picture candidate. ITN has been showing Sinwar's picture for a week now and so a change is overdue. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We could just picture Moldova. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:02, 24 October 2024 (UTC) Too late, we're now picturing a guy I'm betting nobody here saw before. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:48, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, just about nobody was reading about him. Even Grizzly 399 has a bigger readership. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
notability ≠ popularity _-_Alsor (talk) 14:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Gustavo has been found lacking in both and so has been pulled. We're back to Sinwar for a second week and this is not progress. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update: We now feature six all-new, never-before-seen Turkish turnstiles, captured (alongside potentially discernible humanoid figures) in glorious 640x524! InedibleHulk (talk) 22:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC) Partly cloudy, 800x600. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 23

[edit]
October 23, 2024 (2024-10-23) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Leon Cooper

[edit]
Article: Leon Cooper (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

240F:7A:6253:1:E011:5438:975C:9F4D (talk) 03:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Needs more sources. Schwede66 07:30, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jack Jones

[edit]
Article: Jack Jones (American singer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8], [9]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 02:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Grizzly 399

[edit]
Article: Grizzly 399 (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American grizzly bear. Thriley (talk) 05:59, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tried to clean up much of these issues. Natg 19 (talk) 00:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Geoff Capes

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Geoff Capes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British shot putter Stephen 18:05, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Shamshad Abdullaev

[edit]
Article: Shamshad Abdullaev (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Liberty
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A renowned Uzbek Russian-language poet, leader of the Fergana poetic school. The article looks OK. Trepang2 (talk) 17:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Turkish Aerospace Industries headquarters attack

[edit]
Article: 2024 Turkish Aerospace Industries headquarters attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Following a terrorist attack by the Kurdistan Workers' Party that killed 7 people, Turkey conducts airstrikes in Syria and Iraq that kill at least 12 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A Kurdistan Workers' Party attack on the Turkish Aerospace Industries headquarters in Ankara, Turkey, kills 7 people.
News source(s): CNN, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

If the casualties from the terrorist attack was low for several days, it should be closed from this nomination. So, we'll wait for a while. Bakhos2010 (talk) 15:14, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article seems to be a duplicate of 2024 Turkish Aerospace Industries headquarters attack RachelTensions (talk) 15:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly only one is f these pages is needed, and the target article here can be updated. — Masem (t) 16:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changed the blurb Bakhos2010 (talk) 13:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that blurb is better, so I've changed it and marked this nomination as ready. Poxy4 (talk) 13:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've tweaked it again now the article says the PKK claimed responsibility, though I'm unsure about the reliability of the reference it cites. Modest Genius talk 18:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Tropical Storm Trami

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Tropical Storm Trami (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Tropical Storm Trami (pictured) kills at least 115 people in the Philippines. (Post)
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

HurricaneEdgar 09:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a Bad Plan. Stories like these have a tendency to evaporate from the news cycle very quickly, and if the quality update exists now, waiting until the storm ceases to exist would essentially lead to us posting a stale item. If the article is ready, we ought to post at the peak of an item's newsworthiness, not after the denouement. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support it's a storm that has already made landfall. It is notable enough for it to be posted. Rager7 (talk) 02:45, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Good amount of deaths, but unknown damage. Flooding pictures/footage coming out of the area looks bad. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 17:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
LARGE AMOUNT NOT GOOD AMOUNT I DONT MEAN IT LIKE THAT Wildfireupdateman (talk) 18:57, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good job clarifying 😂 –DMartin 17:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 22

[edit]
October 22, 2024 (2024-10-22) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

RD: Johnnie Turner

[edit]
Article: Johnnie Turner (Kentucky politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Kentucky state senator wizzito | say hello! 14:05, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Elizabeth Francis

[edit]
Article: Elizabeth Francis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Oldest living person in the United States. 240F:7A:6253:1:D516:C7BA:2F6:16B5 (talk) 08:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Was covered in media & all over social media. Monumental death for gerontology. EytanMelech (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
EytanMelech, what you need to comment on for a recent death posting is whether the article is up to standard. It doesn't matter how many news media are reporting her death; all that matters is article quality. Schwede66 04:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 UQ impact

[edit]
WP:SNOW closure. (non-admin closure) 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 09:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 UQ (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Meteoroid 2024 UQ impacts Earth, becoming the tenth ever asteroid predicted to do so. (Post)
News source(s): EarthSky.org
Credits:

Article updated
Tenth meteoroid predicted to impact Earth. DIdn't harm anyone, but should be noted. Third already this year. Article does need some work. Elios Peredhel (talk) 02:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted as RD, attention needed on blurb) RD/Blurb: Gustavo Gutiérrez

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Gustavo Gutiérrez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Peruvian Catholic theologian Gustavo Gutiérrez, a founder of Latin American liberation theology, dies at the age of 96. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Peruvian Catholic liberation theologian Gustavo Gutiérrez dies at the age of 96.
News source(s): [11], AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Peruvian priest and author who was a founder of liberation theology~

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Montechill (talk • contribs) 06:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just btw, that article is being merged into Liam Payne's page via a pretty consensus discussion, Nobreadsticks (talk) 23:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per all above. Article looks good now. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb posted – Schwede66 04:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • OMD Life was the story here and it still will be when we're looking at this overblown RD (possibly still pictured) next week. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. No idea why this was posted, the death isn't a story and his stature and prominence clearly don't rise to the usual bar for blurbing. Is it possible for us to have at least a modicum of consistency at ITN?!  — Amakuru (talk) 09:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's consistent in that a blurb that is non-US, not pop culture, and not in blaring headlines can get posted if they fly under radar with little opposition. There's no written rule on this, but I expect a larger quorum if I was to post a blurb. But good for those who decry systemic bias, I suppose. —Bagumba (talk) 09:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't specifically oppose this blurb but looks pretty ridiculous when people refused to blurb Liam Payne which was the top story in many countries and was an unexpected death. AusLondonder (talk) 11:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb & pull. I cannot fathom why an obscure theologian has been given a blurb. Neither his article, nor those on liberation theology and Latin American liberation theology, demonstrates any major impact on the world, just some slight tweaks on how the Catholic Church regards and preaches to the poor. That's not the sort of transformative figure that we require for blurbs. His death and funeral are not unusual in their manner or scope. This is exactly the sort of person that RD was introduced for - notable but not blurb-worthy. Modest Genius talk 11:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Theologians, as academics, are already obscure in terms of how the world covers them. The article had a clear legacy section to explain his importance and demonstrates he was a major figure in theology, which we absolutely should recognize even if the person is relatively obscure to the rest of the world. We're not looking for being transformative at the world stage, but transformative in their field which appears to be demonstrated with the sourcing of the article. Masem (t) 19:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull blurb - seems an unlikely candidate given the usual criteria for a blurb - it's not even a featured or GA, and all the Wikiprojects only rank the article as "mid importance" even within their own fields. Bob talk 11:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull blurb - Counting sources is in no way a justification for blurbing ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support If we're going off of ITN as transformative in their field then Gutierrez deserved a blurb more than Payne or James Earl Jones. As I see it, roughly half of ITN sees transformative in their field as the biggest determining factor for a blurb, which this one meets in my opinion, but the other half sees importance in the eyes of the world or death-as-a-story to be more important. From what I can tell there's no easily-found policy for this and it may just be easier to split off blurb deaths from ITN except in very rare cases (serving heads of states, deaths as a major story, etc.). As it stands, I think the blurb here is justified. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He only appears to have been transformative if you make the field extremely narrow e.g. 'Catholic theology in Latin America'. If the field is more appropriately broad, like 'religion', I don't think he reaches that threshold. Modest Genius talk 13:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should note there are over 400 million Catholics in Latin America, and Catholic Church in Latin America has a pretty big section towards the end on Liberation Theology. Liberation Theology also has a pretty large and well filled-in footnote topic template for navigation that I think indicates the significance to be blurbed when one of the main faces of it dies. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull blurb – Article, and those who have supported the blurb, have not demonstrated his legacy or impact. This RD should not have been blurbed with such little participation from editors. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull blurb – Oppose per Modest Genius's argument. Bizarre choice for a blurb. — Goszei (talk) 16:49, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. Liberation theology is a big thing and he appears to have been transformative in that regard, being named as the "father" of that movement. Clear legacy and impact that justifies a blurb even if not widely known in richer nations. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulled. Consensus to post a blurb seemed to have been there but enough of you have since commented to show that’s not the case. I’ll post it as RD instead. Schwede66 17:33, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. This individual, and his work, is one of the most significant forces in Latin American religious and political life throughout the past half-century. His death is certainly more warranted to be blurbed than many of the anglophone actors whom we have previously featured. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:14, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. I was happy to finally see someone who's not a US/UK film star getting blurbed, but alas, ignorance looks likely to triumph again. As per Red-tailed hawk, liberation theology was one of most influential forces in 20th c Latin America. Gutierrez therefore certainly merits a blurb. Khuft (talk) 19:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. This should be pretty obvious to an encyclopedist.
  • Le Monde 23 Oct mentions his legion d'honneur, Pope Francis' praise (and hence criticism of Jean Paul II for referring to liberation theology as a "deviation")
  • La Croix International, 24 Oct "Liberation Christianity had a significant impact across Latin America."
  • NYT, 23-24 Oct "The book inspired multitudes in Asia and Africa as well." mentions Oscar Romero as one of the co-founders. "he was recognized as one of most influential theologians of the 20th century"
  • El Comercio mentioned on the cover of El Comercio (Peru) 24 October.
etc., etc. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 20:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft oppose I think this entire discussion exemplifies the inconsistency with RD Blurbs that we've been seeing over and over again at ITN. Yes, he is significant and he was an extremely important figure in theology. But is his death currently worldwide headline news? Not in my opinion... he is a 96 year old man who is not a household name. On the other hand, when less socially "impactful" figures who are household names die (like singers and actors), or when there are notable/unusual manners of death (ex: Liam Payne), folks come out of the wood works to argue that only those with higher social impact should get a blurb. The result is a confusing and inconsistent criss cross of the two methodologies for RD Blurbs. We need to agree on a clearer set of criteria and stick to it. FlipandFlopped ツ 20:10, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per above. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:36, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Not a household name, and therefore does not warrant a blurb. TNM101 (chat) 14:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fernando Valenzuela

[edit]
Article: Fernando Valenzuela (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [12]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Legendary Dodgers pitcher, days before a Dodgers-Yankees World Series. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Review/attention needed) Cuban protests, blackout, hurricane

[edit]
Article: 2024 Cuba blackouts (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests occur across Cuba amid a nationwide electrical blackout and the landfall of Hurricane Oscar. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Protests break out in Cuba after a nationwide electrical blackout and the landfall of Hurricane Oscar.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Blackout article is a start class but Oscar is alright. Protests themselves aren't nationwide at the moment, but if they grow in scale then the blurb should be rewritten as such to include them. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support concept, oppose quality article is mostly just bullet points, I'll try to cannibalize a background from the last protest article, but right now I wouldn't say it's good enough for ITN inclusion. Scuba 17:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba: Has the blackout article been expanded enough that you’d support a blurb? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on principle but the articles need some expansion first. Estreyeria (talk) 17:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Estreyeria: Has the blackout article been expanded enough that you’d support a blurb? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think putting everything together kinda makes a bit of a mess of things from a blurb perspective. What seems most notable here is the blackout. It's not common that a complete blackout like this happens. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately for Cuba it is somewhat common, as I mentioned there where blackouts earlier in the year that also caused protests. Scuba 18:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are levels to this sort of thing though. The article itself states "The blackout is the most severe energy crisis that the country has experienced since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991". Personally, I just don't much favor these "x then y" blurbs unless we believe both x and y are notable for ITN themselves. Conflating these three events is only valid for the former two, and I think having a distinct article for the protests themselves would help validate the inclusion of this piece of the blurb as well. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the main blackout article has been expanded. As of now, the said article has been improved but it is still a stub. Though just like the nominator, I have no problems with regards to Hurricane Oscar's article. Vida0007 (talk) 00:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vida0007: Has the blackout article been expanded enough that you’d support a blurb? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It still looks a bit short, but it is no longer marked as a stub and has several references now. I think I could support it now. Vida0007 (talk) 01:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I also added some more sentences and references to the Cuba blackouts article. Vida0007 (talk) 01:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merging the blackout and hurricane into one blurb about protests might be a little messy... are they protesting over Hurricane Oscar? Did Hurricane Oscar cause the blackouts? Are the protests related to the blackout or the hurricane? RachelTensions (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hurricane Oscar made landfall while the nation was under blackout and much information about Oscar was inaccessible due to it. Protests are surrounding the Cuban government's response. We do have an article on Criticism of the government response to Hurricane Katrina and this is comparable to that in my opinion; I strongly suspect the current death toll of 6 from Oscar is going to sharply rise once the nation comes out of blackout. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 02:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability once the article is updated. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Flipandflopped: Has the blackout article been expanded enough that you’d support a blurb? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
*Support@Blaylockjam10: article is good enough for ITN now. FlipandFlopped ツ 17:36, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should note that the blackout has now been resolved for several days now, and the blurb hasn't been posted despite apparently being up to quality standards for a few days. It's also now older than the oldest item on the current ITN template. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 12:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 21

[edit]
October 21, 2024 (2024-10-21) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Barbara Dane

[edit]
Article: Barbara Dane (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death announced 21 October. Thriley (talk) 20:23, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Barbara Kolb

[edit]
Article: Barbara Kolb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boosey & Hawkes
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American composer, first American woman to receive the Rome Prize in composition. Grimes2 (talk) 12:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Conviction of Alejandro Toledo

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Alejandro Toledo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Peruvian president Alejandro Toledo (pictured) is sentenced to twenty years and six months in prison for receiving bribes from Brazilian engineering conglomerate Odebrecht in the Operation Car Wash. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former Peruvian president Alejandro Toledo (pictured) is sentenced to twenty years and six months in prison for receiving bribes during Operation Car Wash.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

ArionStar (talk) 02:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle, but oppose on quality due to several completely unsourced paragraphs. Operation Car Wash was a major case of gov't corruption and this is the clear point of closure on that. --Masem (t) 02:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now due to CN tags, but strong support in principle. Major case of criminal activity on a top political level politician that is making worldwide headlines. Should I have time, I'll try to find sources to fill in the CN tags. INeedSupport :3 18:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Largest known prime

[edit]
Consensus to post will not develop. Interesting news nevertheless, I'd suggest DYK if there was a separate article - but this is not the case. --Tone 16:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Largest known prime number (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An online volunteer project discovers a new largest known prime number, 2136,279,841 − 1. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A new largest known prime number, 2136,279,841 − 1, is discovered.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Researchers discover that the number 2136,279,841 − 1 is prime, the largest such number found to date.
Credits:
I was involved in the prize part of this at EFF in the past, so I've kept following it. The discovery isn't useful for anything, and it's not particularly surprising, but it's also a mathematical accomplishment of humanity, in a sense. These discoveries happen every few years and I think Wikipedia has highlighted them once or twice in the past. I continue to hope for ITN coverage of math stuff, whether it be new theorems or simply new large computations like this. Schoen (talk) 21:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is fair. I did not want to hastily oppose for this reason. Natg 19 (talk) 22:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will probably be a front page splash.... Martinevans123 (talk) 14:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Natg, and also because this is a routine occurrence - it's already known that there are infinitely many primes, and identifying specific large ones is simply a matter of patience and brute force. Unless this own has some interesting properties (beyond being a Mersenne Prime), I don't think this is particularly exciting. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I personally love this kind of stuff, but it's something we expect to happen from time to time, and it's therefore not a significant news event. HiLo48 (talk) 22:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN covers expected events all the time, e.g. elections and sports events. On the other hand, nobody knows exactly when the next largest prime number will be found (if at all – one day we'll find the last one we're ever going to find). AVDLCZ (talk) 02:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for news coverage. If organizations cover it, support altblurb2. Notable discovery, and the first in 6 years. Article looks alright. -insert valid name here- (talk) 22:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support it is a very significant event in terms of the advancement of mathematics. Rager7 (talk) 00:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support if news sources pick this up. New largest known prime number after almost 6 years is certainly not too routine for ITN. AVDLCZ (talk) 02:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Paul Di'Anno

[edit]
Article: Paul Di'Anno (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Daily News,BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

English heavy metal singer .Needs some work.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 ICC Women's T20 World Cup final

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 ICC Women's T20 World Cup final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, the Women's T20 World Cup concludes with New Zealand defeating South Africa in the final (player of the final Amelia Kerr pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In cricket, New Zealand wins their maiden Women's T20 World Cup title after defeating South Africa in the final (player of the final Amelia Kerr pictured).
Credits:

Article updated

We have both Men's and Women's ODI WC at the ITN/R and Men's T20WC as well. Given it had same sort of notability Women's T20WC should be included in the ITN/R as well. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 16:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on quality a short paragraph on each innings isn't enough to meet WP:ITNQUALITY. If quality is fixed, consider this a support vote on notability. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Non-ITN sports (of which there are far too many; IMO there should one (1), the World Cup final) . Not global news. Let's not clog up the front page with more needless sports trivia This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I applaud the drive for better gender equality in sport, and cricket has made big strides in that over recent years. However women's T20I gets a small fraction of the attention that men's T20I does, even more so than the contrast in ODIs. That applies in terms of media coverage, TV audience, in-person spectators, prize money, number of teams etc. For a stark illustration, compare Google searches for 'T20 world cup" in June, when the men's event occurred, vs October when the women's was happening [14]. FWIW, I supported adding the women's ODI world cup to ITNR - that continues to be the highest profile event in women's cricket. If we were to add a second women's cricket item I think the Women's Premier League has a better claim than the WT20 World Cup, though is very new so difficult to assess. Modest Genius talk 16:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Too much sports content on ITN. Tradediatalk 07:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Moldovan European Union membership referendum

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Moldovan European Union membership referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Moldova votes to amend the constitution to include the aim of becoming a future EU member. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Moldova narrowly votes to amend the constitution to include the aim of becoming a future EU member.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Moldovans have voted to include the EU membership in the constitution, although this doesn’t mean they become EU member tomorrow, its significant. Important to note in the blurb that the yes vote doesn’t mean EU membership but the constitution being amended to aim for it. BastianMAT (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The EU did need to undertake actions in order to facilitate Brexit, the UK didn't just take off and leave, it was/still is an incredibly slow and complex process. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
errrrmm.... was it ever properly finished?? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The vote by the UK ppl was the point of no return. While there is formal steps required to have an agreement between the EU and UK on leaving, no action the EU would have stopped it, at worst, the EU/UK could have ended without any formal agreement post brexit in place. In this case, the EU must still formally approve the membership, so there is at least one more step thst will be ITN worthy, and we usually wait until that point of no return to post stories like this. Masem (t) 13:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a point of return, the UK can apply to rejoin at any moment. The same way if Moldova approves this constitutional change it can unapprove such a decision in another referendum should it wish to do so at a later date. Brexit shows you can join or leave if a country wishes to do so, however neither is immediate nor permanent. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is completely untrue. The Brexit referendum was indicative rather than binding. The point of no return was the invocation of Article 50 in 2017. Similarly, this provision in Moldova is permissive rather than definitive - only an invitation from the EU and its subsequent acceptance would be binding. But like the Brexit referendum itself, this (quite narrowly) indicates a national direction of travel and sets a national and international policy agenda. And so I consider it highly newsworthy for the same reason. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- in the news, covered by NYT, CNN, The Kyiv Independent, Politico, The Guardian, WaPo, Le Monde, among others; many of those sites having multiple articles on the topic. Very clearly in the news. Abusing WP:CRYSTAL just opens the floodgates for not having anything on ITN, since you could argue that nothing can be posted since there's a chance that nothing will happen. IMHO, even if Moldova doesn't join the EU, this is still a big step and notable contemporary news story with a decent article that can be highlighted on the main page and interest readers searching for the topic or who are unaware. It would be better for us to have posted on ITN the results of this referendum even if Moldova doesn't join the EU than for us to have not posted it if Moldova did actually formally join.
Also totally agree with the folks making Brexit comparisons; you could have easily argued that we didn't know if Brexit was going to amount to anything as well (look at how convoluted and drawn out the actual leave process was). More evidence of the decline of grounded quality measures on this part of the MP over the past decade. — Knightoftheswords 12:52, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support very newsworthy, especially with the Pro-Russian camp openly cheating, and still losing. Scuba 13:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support With every nomination we see blanket opposition to posting just about any news. This is getting ridiculous. What's the point of ITN? We have a decent article, it's a national-level, constitutional referendum. It's in the news. I actually fail to understand what credible argument could possibly be against including this. If and when they ultimately join us utterly irrelevant. AusLondonder (talk) 13:22, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This constitutional amendment is not only a change in the wording of Moldova's Carta Magna, but the submission of future governments to Europeanist aspirations and the elevation of these aspirations to a question of State in a country constantly threatened by Putin lately, which has a conflictive region on its borders (Transnistria) and which in recent years has aspired as never before to become part of the European bloc. Whether or not it finally joins the EU, which will not be possible in the short or medium term, is not decisive for the notoriety of this referendum. The article is in good condition, it is a news that opens covers in the international news sections and it is a historic result at regional level and important for other countries such as Georgia, Armenia or Bosnia. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for most of the world, referendums are not a common event. Banedon (talk) 14:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I sympathize with the gist of the oppose argument, and I actually agree that there is nothing inherently notable about a referendum of this sort. In this specific case, however, there is a higher degree of news coverage and notability because of the realpolitik and geopolitical implications of Moldova specifically gravitating towards western influence. Moldova is a former SSR. This move could have ramifications for Russian foreign policy towards the rest of Eastern Europe beyond Ukraine - and so, the news is covering it, as should we. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a pro-Western result in a country that experiences a lot of Russian influence & it’s being covered in a lot of reliable sources. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 17:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So wiki is a langley propaganda outlet?2A00:F3C:A282:0:E9:3397:700C:5AD1 (talk) 14:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I am swayed by the arguments in support: just think it's important the blurb doesn't mislead readers (many who will read only the blurb that's it) and is clear this isn't the Official Formal Important Big-Time Start to a formal process, but essentially a statement of aspiration. Also whew, given that vote tally I think "narrowly vote" is definitely called for here. When you're reporting a 50% tally with two decimal places, for a two-option ballot question, that's about as close as elections get. Again, here I think not conveying that information of "very close result" in blurb has potential to mislead—it is very very well-known in journalism that often the majority of people only read headlines, so be certain to put anything you for-sure-no-joke want conveyed, in that headline. Also also, E. Europe topics are ah one of those Controversial Topic Areas w/ plenty of WP history around them so more eyes watching such areas when they show up on Main always good (are there any sanctions currently affecting this, asking for self and general awareness) --Slowking Man (talk) 17:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support clearly in the news and significant enough. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Moldova was already accepted as a candidate for EU membership and so this event doesn't change much. It's mostly internal politics, trying to lock in the current trajectory. If the opposition parties were to take power then this constitutional amendment still couldn't force them to continue the process of membership against their will. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Turkey has been an official candidate since 1999 and started applying as far back as 1959 yet they haven't taken any steps towards membership such as a popular vote. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    yes, they have -- see 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum. It doesn't appear that that was posted at ITN. And, despite it being passed, Turkey is still not a member. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Remember what you were doing fourteen years ago? I hope part of that time was spent participating in that key ITN/C discussion on the 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum, whose outcome the users back then knew damn well would establish an earth-shattering, long-standing precedence for what to post on ITN for many, many years to come. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 19:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was going by the article's talk page, which doesn't have an ITN notice. But checking further, I find that the Turkish referendum was posted at ITN -- see Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2010#Turkish constitutional referendum, 2010. But here we are 14 years later and Turkey is still not a member. Myself, I was otherwise engaged, creating Alison Wolf, Baroness Wolf of Dulwich. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sure Alison will be eternally grateful. Looking forward to posting "Turkey joins the EU", when it happens (wolves permitting, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Regardless of the outcome, it is notable in European and Moldovan politics and history. If Moldova succeeds in joining then it would be a new addition to the EU membership. If it fails, then it starts the precedent of Moldova attempts of joining the European Union. Rager7 (talk) 21:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it hasn't started anything. See Accession of Moldova to the European Union. That started with an application in 2022 and formal negotiations started in June 2024. There are six structural reforms required by the EU. Changing the constitution isn't one of them. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support key referendum that, had it failed, could have unexpectedly shaken the legitimacy of the current government that had been doing well in the polls. Moldova is a country widely described by international observers as between the West and Russia. This was an important event in regional geopolitics. I find the following quote related to the latter interesting: "Georgia is watching Moldova and if the West fails in Chișinău, Tbilisi is next" [Georgia is having a parliamentary election this Saturday]. The referendum is even more notable with the allegations of Russian interference. And lastly I think it's just interesting that the vote ended with such a narrow result, which challenged all expectations and had an insanely uncertain counting up until the last moments. Super Ψ Dro 23:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on my last point, and agreeing with much of what Slowking Man said, I think we should reflect how close the vote was in the blurb. It could be enough to simply add "narrowly" before "votes". Even the narrow victory has implications for the current government as an overwhelming victory was widely expected. BastianMAT, what do you think? Super Ψ Dro 23:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You certainly make a good point, I added an alt blurb with the word narrowly now, but it is up to the community to decide as the most important is that we convey the result of the referendum: that a constitutional amendment will be made. BastianMAT (talk) 14:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you count votes, you don't count votes, the merits of the arguements matter. Like that one above who said it is "pro-western against russia".2A00:F3C:A282:0:E9:3397:700C:5AD1 (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Russia didn't want it to happen. And when it did happen, they tried their best to steal the result. So if the extra tiny bit of publicity on the Main page here means we're "anti-Russian", so be it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:47, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull - Amakuru's rationale has swayed me, I believe this posting was too premature. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 17:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Moldova is in the screening phase of the negotiation process of joining the EU, so this constitutional amendment isn’t really a major shift in country’s politics. It’s just a nominal confirmation of what the current government has been doing over the past few years.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - Very significant national referendum, especially with the ongoing Russian terrorist activity in part of the country and misinformation. And besides, as noted above, the precedent was set for a similar vote that was done in Turkey. Nfitz (talk) 02:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull. I have just seen this discussion now that it's been posted to the main page, and it's hard to understand how. This is at best too soon. If the Gambia held a referendum to amend its constitution and make a goal of building a suspension bridge on Jupiter, hopefully we wouldn't post that to the front page before they even leave Earth's orbit. The linked Reuters article says this is also part of the Moldovan presidential elections, there's still a runoff in a couple weeks between a "pro-EU" and "pro-Russia" candidate. As Kiril Simeonovski says the amendment is a continuation of policy under the current government, plans for accession did not start due to the referendum. Rate of progress on accession would likely be determined more so by the outcome of the runoff than the amendment itself. NICHOLAS NEEDLEHAM (talk) 12:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So if Alexandr Stoianoglo gets in, we'll just see another referendum to change the constitution back again? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You'd have to ask him yourself, but the article states he "boycotted Sunday's referendum, calling it a ruse to boost Sandu's re-election bid." It's a safe bet that the significance of the referendum might be interpreted differently depending on the winner of the runoff. So I'm really not sure how this story has been put on the main page. If/when Moldova becomes an EU member, that's definitely noteworthy news for the main page, but currently it's a nothingburger. NICHOLAS NEEDLEHAM (talk) 14:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll try and squeeze Alexandr in, before he gets bogged down in printing ballot papers. Maybe Europa Clipper could take a few snaps for those plucky Gambians? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and pull per above. This is barely being covered by international media, it's buried somewhere in between BRICS and climate change impacting butterflies. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:00, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is just not true, it's headline news across Europe Abcmaxx (talk) 08:09, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support – Referendum notable for its allege Russian interference and the reshaping of pro-West dynamics within Moldova and other EU aspirants. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support This has geostrategic significance and deserves to be included in ITN. Tradediatalk 07:44, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull. Not notable. If they had actually taken steps (and had them approved/began on the EU's side as well), that may be notable to post. But a country merely saying they want to do something is not notable. Not even if they amend their constitution to reflect that desire. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 07:47, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't pull No reason to pull, decent article and in the news. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:11, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, it actually happened, on 20 October. Russia nearly stole the result. Or should we all just look the other way and pretend they didn't. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, they did not become a European Union member state.--TorsodogTalk 00:14, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 20

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October 20, 2024 (2024-10-20) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Sports

(Review needed) RD: Peter L. Nissen

[edit]
Article: Peter L. Nissen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Memorial
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Norwegian aviator and businessperson, turned 100 in January. Life and career seems to be adequately sourced, some sources are offline. Oceanh (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Ready) RD: Fethullah Gülen

[edit]
Article: Fethullah Gülen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ReutersWashington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Turkish Muslim scholar. Article says died on Sunday.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could one argue that this deserves a blurb? Not sure myself. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 12:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, oppose blurb as he was not a leader of a sovereign nation or political group.
JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you Please take a look.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:44, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 20

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October 20, 2024 (2024-10-20) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Walter Jacob

[edit]
Article: Walter Jacob (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pittsburgh Jewish Chronicle
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American Reformed rabbi, more than 40 years at the same congregation in Pittsburgh, chairman of Central Conference of American Rabbis and World Union for Progressive Judaism, active in interfaith dialogue, founder of an international forum for Jewish law, and of the first rabbinic seminary in Central Europe since the Holocaust, in Germany in 1999. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:55, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Janusz Olejniczak

[edit]
Article: Janusz Olejniczak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Polish pianist, focused on the music by Chopin. He not only played it on both modern and period instruments, but also portrayed the composer in a film, and - best-known - played the piano music in Polanski's The Pianist. - More facts and more references added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Review needed) RD: Peter L. Nissen

[edit]
Article: Peter L. Nissen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Memorial
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Norwegian aviator and businessperson, turned 100 in January. Life and career seems to be adequately sourced, some sources are offline. Oceanh (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul White, Baron Hanningfield

[edit]
Article: Paul White, Baron Hanningfield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British politician and life peer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 13:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unsuitable at the moment, has entire unsourced section (Lobbying for rural communities) and cn tags. Some sentences are unsourced in the section about his false expenses claims and imprisonment. AusLondonder (talk) 13:35, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose needs serious source work. Scuba 14:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Citations added, article in good shape. Scuba 15:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think I have added sources to cover the issues raised by @Scu ba: and removed some of the PROMO barrister references so it should be OK now. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Ready) RD: Fethullah Gülen

[edit]
Article: Fethullah Gülen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ReutersWashington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Turkish Muslim scholar. Article says died on Sunday.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could one argue that this deserves a blurb? Not sure myself. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 12:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, oppose blurb as he was not a leader of a sovereign nation or political group.
JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you Please take a look.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:44, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 Indonesian general election

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW, election was posted when it happened; election was held months ago, now inauguration happened, not election. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 17:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Indonesian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prabowo Subianto is elected President of Indonesia (Post)
News source(s): al-Jazeera
Credits:
I am aware that this is more than a just a presidential election but in terms of notability, the Presidential one is the most notable one Abo Yemen✉ 15:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 19

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October 19, 2024 (2024-10-19) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Science and technology

RD: Yehuda Bauer

[edit]
Article: Yehuda Bauer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of Israel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Czech-born Israeli historian and scholar of the Holocaust. Thriley (talk) 06:15, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now The 2 citation needed tags need to be taken care of (particularly the uncited paragraph). Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:10, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Thelma Mothershed-Wair

[edit]
Article: Thelma Mothershed-Wair (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American activist and member of Little Rock Nine. 240F:7A:6253:1:1813:3939:3F14:36B (talk) 13:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose no infobox, Early life uncited, wikipedia article is only reference in Little Rock Nine. Scuba 17:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Michel Klein (veterinarian)

[edit]
Article: Michel Klein (veterinarian) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French veterinarian and animal rights activist often seen on television. Needs expansion. Thriley (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and? does that mean he should be posted? I don't know what the point of this comment is. Natg 19 (talk) 03:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. He was the French counterpart to David Attenborough or Marlin Perkins. They where celebrities and TV icons of their time, and influenced generations of people for animal welfare, zoology and conservation with a lasting legacy. Just because he survived 20+ more years and amlost nobody under 30 remembers him is no reason to disregard him. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 12:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose since article is currently a stub. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 14:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article has been expanded since the nomination was originally posted… it’s not a huge article but it’s of reasonable quality. RachelTensions (talk) 17:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's still a stub though, it hasn't really been expanded. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 07:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When first nominated this article was about 6 words long, so yes it has been significantly expanded. RD criteria isn’t looking for a perfect article, a short article of decent quality and sourcing is just fine. RachelTensions (talk) 12:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not only is it a stub, with only 1 notable reliable reference it fails WP:BIO citation guidelines. Scuba 17:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well this is just patently untrue. The sources cited in the article are from BFM TV (France's largest news channel), Le Monde (a French newspaper of record), Le Parisien (another large French newspaper), Le Point Vétérinaire (a widely regarded French veterinary industry publication), and Canadian Veterinary Journal (a peer-reviewed scientific journal). Almost every statement in the article is sourced and all sources easily meet WP:RS. RachelTensions (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. It is notable that the "support" arguments are about the topic, while the "opposition" just argues about the lenght of the article, as if that relies to the noteworthyness of the news of his death. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is important to note that when people support or oppose a nomination at ITN, it is not based on importance because anybody with a Wikipedia article is notable enough to be featured on RD. However, ITN has quality standards for what gets posted, which include sourcing and length. Hope that explains why people are currently opposing the nomination. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 America's Cup

[edit]
Article: 2024 America's Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession by defeating the Royal Yacht Squadron.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The article needs some TLC and I hope that somebody can attend to it; personally, sailing doesn't spin my wheels. Schwede66 01:26, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Yemeni civil war (2014–present)

[edit]
WP:SNOW closure, consensus will not develop. (non-admin closure) 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 10:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Yemeni civil war (2014–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cfr.org/index.php/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/war-yemen, Various
Credits:

Article updated
Wafflefrites (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment assuming this meant ongoing it would be difficult to keep up to date and keep there considering the challenge of reliable information about it 27.96.223.193 (talk) 22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen: Shouldn't the article make this clear then and even be called Yemeni civil war (2014–2021) if its now only a low-level insurgency? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article does mention the truce, but that doesn't mean the war is completely over as the truce is between the houthis and the internationally recognized govt but not the other factions like al-qaeda, for example Abo Yemen✉ 04:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support notability but oppose on quality The article does not make it clear how intense the fighting is currently, does not show if anything has happened since 2021, and if Abo Yemen's comment above is true then the article should really make this clear. Background and introduction of a complex geopolitical situation is welcome, but the article really does not describe much of the actual war itself. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 18

[edit]
October 18, 2024 (2024-10-18) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Rick Nolan

[edit]
Article: Rick Nolan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former US Congressman. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support other than a few minor issues with prose the article looks good. Scuba 17:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ginés González García

[edit]
Article: Ginés González García (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Nación, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Minister of health of Argentina during the COVID-19 pandemic. Cambalachero (talk) 18:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on this article, improving its content and sources. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
work done. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article looks decent, no glaring issues. Scuba 15:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Internet Archive cyberattack

[edit]
Rejected per previous proposal/rejection. SerialNumber54129 15:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Internet Archive cyberattack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Internet Archive suffered a DDoS attack that made its services unusable since October 9, compromising the data of 31 million users. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, NBC, Forbes,
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 13:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 17

[edit]
October 17, 2024 (2024-10-17) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Andrew Schally

[edit]
Article: Andrew Schally (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Polish-American endocrinologist and Nobel laureate. 240F:7A:6253:1:DC9A:82E2:FE53:A327 (talk) 23:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Rigathi Gachagua impeachment

[edit]
Consensus to post will not develop. Stephen 22:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Rigathi Gachagua (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kenyan Deputy President Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached in a landmark vote. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached as the deputy president of Kenya by the parliament.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Kenya, deputy president Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached by the parliament.
News source(s): france 24
Credits:

Article needs updating
Somewhat of a long shot as he was the deputy, but it is pretty high and a notable first.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Soft oppose deputy president, not president. Unless I'm missing something this isn't really a major geopolitical event. Scuba 17:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Philip Zimbardo

[edit]
Article: Philip Zimbardo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Legacy
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Philip Zimbardo died on 14th, but announced today. Philip Zimbardo, a psychologist conducted the now mostly discredited Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971 which at the time was studying the effect on situational variables on participants' reactions and behaviors. The experiment is now an example of what not to do in psychological studies. He's also been involved in several other studies in more recent years and is also a writer. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mitzi Gaynor

[edit]
Article: Mitzi Gaynor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American actress, singer, and dancer. Article likely needs more citation work. Staraction (talk | contribs) 21:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Toshiyuki Nishida

[edit]
Article: Toshiyuki Nishida (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Japanese Actor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 16

[edit]
October 16, 2024 (2024-10-16) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Sukh Dev

[edit]
Article: Sukh Dev (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Gujarat Samachar (India)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian scientist. Article seems to be alright. Ktin (talk) 01:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Yahya Sinwar

[edit]
Article: Yahya Sinwar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Hamas de facto leader Yahya Sinwar reportedly killed in an Israeli operation. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in an Israeli operation.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in a firefight with Israeli forces in Gaza.
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Confirmed killed by IDF via Bloomberg ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • If confirmed by RS, I would support this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support covered by all major sources by now Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 17:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think all Wikipedias will add it on the main page. A.WagnerC(alt) (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Quality seems okay and RSs have confirmed the death with photos in addition to the Israeli claims. The internal leader of Hamas for nearly a decade, and more recently the overall leader. Killing of major leaders in wars merit posting even though the war might be in ongoing (e.g. Nasrallah's death despite the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict being stickied). ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if confirmed by Hamas and RS + a better blurb is used (came here to nominate it, found it already nominated) Abo Yemen✉ 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note His article is in decent shape, but as of this comment it has not been updated to state definitively that he is dead. Support Blurb on updating and confirmation from sources other than Israel. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, but strongly oppose blurb. This is covered by ongoing Israel-Hamas war. We have consistently not blurbed the large scale killing of civilians in Gaza, and we should remain consistent and not suddenly decide to blurb this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per VR. Combatant dies in combat in a conflict that we have listed under Ongoing already - despite Sinwar being a notable figure, this isn’t a unique/unusual situation in the way the assassinations of Haniyeh/Nasrallah were (and iirc, Nasrallah was posted before the Israel-Hezbollah conflict was in Ongoing). The Kip (contribs) 18:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pending further confirmation, Support Blurb as article in decent shape (bit too much proseline but not a blocker) and clearly a major event in the Gaza situation. Side unrelated comment as i see no reason for the separate death article to load up on repeated BG and excessive reactions, but that's beyond the remit of ITN outside of avoiding a blurb that links to it. Masem (t) 18:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will make this more explicit since alt blurbs use it, I Oppose including the killing article as the featured one. It's typical of the slicing and dicing of news stories to far too much detail for and encyclopedia, with excessive BG and reaction sections, when the actual events are all of four paragraphs. Some of that reaction is likely better in the context of the larger conflict, but making the event standalone, particularly when it was less of an organized plan and more a chance happenstance, it's not a good summary of the news as we should be writing. — Masem (t) 18:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Confirmed now by Israel, headline news now and significant enough in its own right, rising above routine updates in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war. Brandmeistertalk 18:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've added an altblurb with a link to the article on his death. As nominator, I am pretty indifferent to blurbing since I agree it is covered by ongoing, but he is also a very high ranking individual. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 18:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Added an altblurb. Current wording implies the operation was to find and kill him, but it seems the encounter was happenstance. I'm indifferent about blurbing as well. Bitspectator ⛩️ 18:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Pachu Kannan (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb vs RD - Yes, it's part of a conflict/war that's listed in Ongoing, but when the leader of one of the side in the conflict/war is killed, it's very much significant on its own and on top of the Ongoing. And yes, we very much posted the killing of Hassan Nasrallah. If Russia managed to take out Zelenskyy or Ukraine managed to take out Putin, are people seriously suggesting we wouldn't blurb that? -- KTC (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per Patar Knight FlipandFlopped ツ 18:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Matia Chowdhury

[edit]
Article: Matia Chowdhury (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New AgeDhaka Tribune
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bangladesh Politician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you take a look at this Please.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tina Kaidanow

[edit]
Article: Tina Kaidanow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Koha
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed, RD posted): Liam Payne

[edit]
"Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page."—Bagumba (talk) 04:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD posted, as noted, the consensus for a blurb is still unlikely to form and the discussion has been around long enough. --Tone 08:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Liam Payne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ English singer Liam Payne (pictured), previously of One Direction, dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
Alternative blurb II: ​ English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
News source(s): CNN, ABC News, CTV News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former One Direction member, dead after a fall from a balcony in Argentina RachelTensions (talk) 21:50, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support blurb Alrighty, here we got a relatively young sudden death from an unusual circumstance (fall of the balcony due to possible intoxication see enwiki article). 1D was definitely an influential band during the 2010s and being a member of said and the circumstances of his death does merit a blurb. In terms of article, there's 2-3 cn tags and the filmography/awards section needs some ref work first. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Definitely notable, on pretty much every big news site in the world already. Article needs some work with refs but other than that looks fine. harrz talk 22:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you supporting RD or a blurb? If you are supporting RD, note that anyone with an article is considered notable, and the focus is on article quality. Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post. Natg 19 (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm supporting a blurb - sorry, I misunderstood the nomination. harrz talk 22:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, oppose blurb - Going to go against the grain here. Once the article issues are addressed the article should definitely go on RD, but as big as One Direction was, I'm skeptical that a blurb is warranted. Usually we'd reserve it for the biggest of the big, and while One Direction was big in their day I'm not sure if he'd count in this case. I don't want to go OSE here and all but many other arguably more deserving people only got an RD mention and not a blurb, so him getting a blurb would seem unfair, even arguably Anglocentric. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: To be fair, the argument for a blurb in this case is mainly directed towards the manner of his death which is unusual especially for someone at the age of 31 not about how influential he was or for being a 1D member. When someone old dies and gets nominated for a blurb, there's the 'old person dies, what's new' argument. Now that we have a younger, relatively popular singer who dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony...I think that's the blurb of the story. Also: "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." Also the article's in good shape now in terms of quality. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb — Not a significant figure. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As we all know, no one but Trump is significant to you... LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what this insinuation is supposed to mean. I have opposed virtually every ITN nomination about Trump since he was indicted in New York. If Trump were to die, I would support a blurb, as I would for any current or former head of state. That is the standard. Payne, who I had not heard of until I received news of his death, was not transformative to the field of music. If ITN wants to reflect a global audience, it needs to be selective about who appears. His death is undoubtably tragic, but it would take a truly notable person for me to seek a blurb. In addition, I do not voice my support for a blurb unless I believe that the discussion is leaning against one, which has not happened in quite some time. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @LilianaUwU Knock it off. See my note on your talk page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    See my argument above. The discussions for a blurb in this case isn't about how 'significant' he was it's more about the manner of death. "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody is saying he is a significant figure. It is the circumstances of death that are newsworthy. With respect, it is not really helpful to just say "oppose because I don't think Liam Payne is an impactful artist". Whether he is an impactful figure or not is a bit of a red herring, because his nomination is about the death. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." I would say is applicable here. Thechased (talk) 23:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per Flipandflopped. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb The manner of unusual death is notable enough to be blurbworthy. I added an altblurb specifying his former band and his manner of death, as that is bringing this major attention. DrewieStewie (talk) 23:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurbable Often enough, in music history, death makes legends. Not just out of the personally tragic main character, either. The background, the aftermath and everything. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb and Alt Blurb This is both supported and notable, shockingly and sad news as a fan of one direction. Royiswariii | D-GENERATION X | u can talk me :) 00:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb No indication of how they were a great/major figure (fame from being in 1D doesn't count), and while the death was unusual, initial reports do not show signs of this being an attack, only perhaps an incident while being intoxicated. --Masem (t) 00:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Intoxication plays a huge part in most of the most VH1ed rock or rock-adjacent tales of woe. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Which would make this not an "unusual" death, in that regard. To contrast, while Prince died from drug overdose (also common in musician deaths), we posted him more on the basis of him being a great figure, not the death itself. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never considered Prince great. Michael Hutchence, neither. Nor Robert Johnson. The devil's in the details. In Prince's case, the devil was fentanyl, bloody fentanyl (a pandemic many considered "hot" at the time, like oxy in the oxy days, crack in the crack days or hooch in the hooch days). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dying by falling off a hotel balcony at a young age is uncommon especially when it happens to someone of his background. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dying unintentionally from various reasons while intoxicated is very common among young adults. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, but how many wasted young adults were global megastars first? Quite a few. Still not a routine occurrence. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Payne was not a common young adult to be fair. Per InedibleHulk. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, per you, the balcony aspect even sets him apart from the usual hotel figures. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "not routine" is not the same as "uncommon". Many people in the entertainment industry that have achieved success at a young age make poor choices, such as DUI, becoming addicted, etc., and in a few of those cases, has resulted in their deaths. It's tragic that we lose that talent, but it happens with enough regularity that's its not uncommon, just not "routine" in that we can expect one every X days (as we've called mass shootings in the US) "Unusual" in the past typically refers to things like assassinations and murder, and even then we typically expect the victim to have been a rather significant figure. Masem (t) 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Way more rather significant figures are murdered than fall off balconies. I had no idea who Sophie was either, but yeah, good cautionary tale about trying to photograph the moon while sober. Not exactly famous, though, especially in VH1 circles. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb Per the other supports. Centuries123 (talk) 01:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb: Sophie died in a very similar circumstance and not a single person suggested blurbing her death. It's clear that people are only blurbing because he was a member of One Direction (and no offense but he was one of the less popular members with a not-so-prolific career post-breakup). And being a member of One Direction is not an indication for being blurbed in my opinion.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think there might be a slight difference between someone who never even had a #1 versus a member of one of the worlds biggest boybands. 2A01:4B00:AD37:D300:ED97:E32E:2A7B:1E12 (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD. Payne is a celebrity, but not notable enough to merit a blurb in ITN. He was a single member of a band, not a stand-alone. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose Blub Not a notable figure. Not a notable death. Cause of death certainly not enough to override the first two. Suggestion of a blurb is a newsworthiness-blind act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN. The Daily Mail exists for this; not ITN. Dr Fell (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"It is an act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN to post something that is in the news, because I personally this death is perfectly ordinary despite every major news organization in the world reporting it"... uh huh, ok. Please refrain from ridiculous or farfetched accusations of vandalism and stick to WP:AFG. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The figure in question is not noteworthy enough for an ITN blurb. Death by misadventure does not change that. Presumed public "shock" does not change that. Coverage by celebrity gossip sites does not change that. ITN is not TMZ. Dr Fell (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb widely known. probably many more people have heard about his death than the number of people who've ever heard about a random tiny pacific micronation let alone its elections that regularly get posted here Kasperquickly (talk) 07:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's actually filmed in Majorca. But tend to agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How small does a nation have to be to be insignificant in your opinion? Elections are ITN/R for a good reason. If it suffers a natural disaster is that less significant than a mediocre musician tragically dying? Abcmaxx (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not talking natural disasters. And the reasoning for elections are sloppy. Elections in the USA are important. Elections in Japan are important. Elections in Nigeria are possibly important. Elections in the central african republic are NOT Kasperquickly (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Why would elections in Nigeria be more important than in the Central African Republic? Where are you drawing this arbitrary line? What about all the countries in between the two? Also going back to topic, if only fame and what people recognise was an indication of what to post then we might as well only post celebrity gossip and top-level footballers, such the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Kardashians latest product launches and forget about space exploration or gang wars in Haiti, which by your logic is too small and far away a country by your standards. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    it's not about being far away, it's the geopolitical improtance, you're either feigning ignorance or your actual ignorant if you think elections in CAR or Micronesia are just as important like those in Germany or Indonesia.
    /thread. Kasperquickly (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We consider general elections in all sovereign states to be notable see WP:ITNR (along with other general topics). Personal opinions of editors on the level of importance assigned to any of these is not relvant and a change if felt should be sought at ITNR (though consensus is unlikely to change). About the usage of phrases like "/thread", please realize that Wikipedia is WP:NOTAFORUM (edit: I realize you have been warned against making forum comment several times already, a block has also followed for personal attacks (including usages of kek, r-word); a continuation of this is not going to bode well for you). Also familiarize yourself with the relevant ITN and ITNR policies, we do not post based on "geopolitcal" considerations, never have. Though this is now going off-topic from a RD-blurb about a musician. Gotitbro (talk) 11:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    yep, kek is a known nazi word only nazis use (wikipedia says so, must be true), and retarded is a word only sexists and racists use (wikipedia says so, must be true).
    seriously man, touch grass. Kasperquickly (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb, this is how I find out that he died. His solo career was still quite big when not compared to Harry Styles for example Strip That Down reached number 3 in the UK and number 10 in the US and so arguably had a more successful music career than Louis Tomlinson. Sahaib (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb He was a member of a popular band, not a musician with a successful solo career. And One Direction most definitely do not have the massive impact of The Beatles, The Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd so that we consider a blurb for the death of an individual band member.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose blurb The circumstances of the death are dramatic and tragic, but purely in terms of his importance, he was one of six members of a famous, but not music history-changing band, as Kiril above me points out. A lot of fans, but probably even more people who roughly remember One Direction and that some guys sang together. With Harry Styles my answer would be yes, but this way I tend to be against it. --Clibenfoart (talk) 08:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correction there was five members (four when Zayn left). Sahaib (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As stated above, the main argument about this blurb is more revolving around the circumstances of his death (fall from balcony, young age, possible circumstances surrounding the fall, etc.) Had he died in a more common way like a car accident or as Rambling Man mentioned, something relating to drugs or even homicide, then yes this would be a clear case for RD with a strong opposition against blurbing. However, falling off a hotel balcony while being *possibly* intoxicated at the young age of 31, well, that's not that common hence the blurb nom. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So why didn't we blurb Jackmaster, Sophie, George Baldock, or XXXTentacion by that reasoning? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose blurb per most above. Far from transformative in their field, nor are they particularly distinguished within even their group. I'd argue popularity of the deceased doesn't necessarily necessitate a blurb unless under suspicious circumstances, and to me it's clear what happens is no deeper than a few sentences long. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, a quick question, what does it exactly mean for a death itself to be notable? Any respected figure dying of any means could have an argument of "tragic and unexpected death", such as a heart attack, cancer, stroke, or heart disease, when those are some of the most common forms of death. This clause should really only be used if there's reason to suspect their death was actually unusual and would be notable on its own, for instance Alexei Navalny's death in a Russian prison as an opposition leader, as opposed to a simple case of someone dying the way most people die. From what I gather, the means of death here wasn't plausibly caused by a third party and beyond the perceived tragedy there wasn't much to Payne's death than that. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb The comet blurb is very stale already, so might aswell blurb this one. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 16:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supporting blurb The comet passage we currently have in ITN is very stale, apparently dating back to September. This is a major news topic and unusual death. Freshen up the feed. RachelTensions (talk) 17:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb While 1D were big, they weren't earth-shatteringly so, and he was not the most famous/notable member of it regardless. The Kip (contribs) 19:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb—One Direction were huge in the 2010s, and Liam Payne's death was extremely sudden and tragic. It's easy for those who didn't grow up in the 2010s (i.e. people like me) to say that 1D isn't iconic like Queen or Nirvana, but the fact is that they were iconic to many legions of fans during their existence, and the band leaves behind a major legacy of its own. Kurtis (talk) 19:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb, very notable individual and huge news story. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 00:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb The only way this would get a blurb is under "death as the story" and, besides being tragically young, this doesn't meet that. Deaths that meet such a "news in itself" threshold would be more the likes of Michael Mosley, where the manner of death is particularly unusual and where there is news coverage of the manner of death itself (and not just because the person was whatever level of famous) - which IIRC we didn't post anyway. Kingsif (talk) 01:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admin comment At this point, it's a dead heat, both by strength of argument and numerically. Unless this changes, this won't get blurbed. Schwede66 02:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That very much depends what you're counting. The number of !votes here is about 55. Meanwhile, the number of readership views of this and related topics is currently running at about 10 million per day. It's clearly the dominant topic. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • At this point, I would support disposing of ITN altogether. When someone dies of old age, the discussion is full of "manner of death not notable" oppose votes. When someone dies an unnatural death at a young age, suddenly the manner of death doesn't matter anymore... Unless the only "notable" cause of death is murder. Not to mention how discussions which are undecided after 2 days get closed regularly (IMO the only reasons to close an ITN discussion should be an AfD nomination or the OP withdrawing. They get archived after a week anyway, it's not like they would go on forever.). TVShowFan122 (talk) 18:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TVShowFan122: there is a discussion at WP:VPP about amendments or changes to ITN: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: In the news criteria amendments. Natg 19 (talk) 20:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TVShowFan122, I don't know if you've got your wires crossed, but the 'contrast' of the two situations you describe actually sounds like the same argument being applied in both age-range cases. If a person is not massive enough for a blurb just because it's them, and their death is not remarkable enough it would be news even if it wasn't them, then RDs are not elevated from RD to a blurb. Why would we scrap ITN because of... remarkable consistency in the RD line... Kingsif (talk) 23:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 SCO summit (heads of government)

[edit]
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW close. Natg 19 (talk) 19:01, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 SCO summit (heads of government) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The two-day summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Council of Heads concluded in Islamabad, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, VOA, Al Jazeera, DW, AP
Credits:

Article needs updating
Ainty Painty (talk) 07:01, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Seems like some run-of-the-mill summit to me. Nothing really noteworthy coming out of it nor that much mainstream coverage. Plus of course, the citations are missing publishers and accessdates. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it is far from a "run-of-the-mill" summit. That's just living in denial of a static geopolitical world order, particularly with 2024. Of course, that depends on the quality of the ARTICLE/UPDATE. Plenty has gone up without the referencing excuse.Sportsnut24 (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality for now The summit has received sufficient mainstream coverage for ITN. However, the article currently does not have much detail about the summit. Notably, a list of the summit's results is missing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Routine summit that hasn't made any major announcement and there's no indication of long-term impact. We wouldn't post summits of equivalent regional bodies (African Union, ASEAN etc.). Besides, the article is terrible, just two sentences of prose and some uninformative bullet points. It would be embarrassing to post that in ITN. Modest Genius talk
  • Oppose We generally do not post these types of summits (even stuff like the G7 or G20), unless significant reform measures are signed for individual country ratification. --Masem (t) 11:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As not seeing evidence of any noteworthy developments at the summit. If someone can demonstrate that is not correct I'd happily reconsider. I'd personally support posting more regional summits as long as something of relevance takes place. The article is obviously not fit for ITN, either. Also we shouldn't post a redirect, the article is at Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. AusLondonder (talk) 12:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 15

[edit]
October 15, 2024 (2024-10-15) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Garbis Aprikian

[edit]
Article: Garbis Aprikian (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTL (France)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Born in Egypt as an Armenian, he moved to Paris for studies and remained there, conducting an Armenian mixed choir for around 50 years and bringing Armenian music to France. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Robert Fulford (journalist)

[edit]
Article: Robert Fulford (journalist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC.ca
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Canadian journalist. Article seems to almost be there. Ktin (talk) 01:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mike Jackson

[edit]
Article: Mike Jackson (British Army officer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article is a FA. Updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Atul Parchure

[edit]
Article: Atul Parchure (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times Now Times of India Hindustan Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Well known Marathi and Hindi film and television actor, death has been acknowledged throughout the industry. Has a verifiability tag but should be resolved soon. TNM101 (chat) 13:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Negus

[edit]
Article: George Negus (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [18], [19]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 04:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 14

[edit]
October 14, 2024 (2024-10-14) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Barbara Owen (organist)

[edit]
Article: Barbara Owen (organist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Organ Historical Society
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American organist, who also was into organ building, voicing and consulting, and a musicologist who headed the Boston chapter of the AGO and its organ library at the Boston University. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Janet Nelson

[edit]
Article: Janet Nelson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Royal Historical Society
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British medieval historian. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to add. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ready for 36 hours now. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Nadeem al-Wajidi

[edit]
Article: Nadeem al-Wajidi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Millat Times Baseerat Online Amar Ujala The Inquilab
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian Islamic scholar. Khaatir (talk) 14:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Europa Clipper launches

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Europa Clipper (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Europa Clipper probe is launched (pictured) by NASA on a 6-year journey to the Jovian moon Europa. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Europa Clipper spacecraft is launched (pictured) to investigate Europa, an icy moon of Jupiter
News source(s): CNN, Sky, Space.com
Credits:

Major interplanetary probe launch, and significant coverage from non-science focused sources. Seems to be getting a similar level of attention to Polaris Dawn, if not more. First orbital probe dedicated to exploring a single non-Earth moon. Jone425 (talk) 22:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Article looks good, very notable and prevalent in the news Hungry403 (talk) 05:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - but there's problems with the blurb. The blurb currently says "on a 6-year mission to the Jovian moon". The flight to Europa is 5.5 years, but I believe the mission at Europa is at least 4 years. Perhaps the blurb should say "on a 6-year flight ..." Nfitz (talk) 05:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Swapped 'mission' out in favour of 'journey', but I can change it to 'flight' if that's more appropriate. Jone425 (talk) 07:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The launch seems unremarkable compared to the Starship catch and ITN is only running three blurbs currently. The real challenge for this mission is the intense radiation at the destination -- see Vulnerable transistors... We'll just have to wait and see how that goes. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no mention of the launcher in the blurb, and only a fleeting reference in the target article. It's the spacecraft that's notable here. Nfitz (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no mention of the launcher in my comment either. The event here is the "launch" and both blurbs use the verb to indicate this. The relevant section of the article has zero prose about the event and, instead has a lot of stuff about might-have-beens and also uses the future tense repeatedly. This is an inadequate update for what we'd be reporting here.
    Editors seem to be supporting this because they think it's a potentially important mission, not because we have a good report on something that has happened. Whether the mission turns out to be significant will not be known for years and it might never happen. That's why ITN/R recommends posting on arrival rather than departure. See WP:CRYSTAL.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 20:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Hungry403. Double sharp (talk) 10:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. Major mission and the article is in decent shape. However there isn't much in the way of updates, just a statement that it launched. Yesterday I removed two entire sections that were many years out of date, and refrained from nominating because of the limited update. Several parts of the text are still in past tense or refer to potential future launch dates, not the actual one. This certainly should be posted, but I would prefer it if the other outdated statements were fixed. Altblurb added. Modest Genius talk 11:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we've already established via many people's opinions of the Starship launch and catch that most users here think even revolutionary rocket catches out of mid-air are not significant. This is significantly less significant and in the news than a single run of the mill rocket launch such as the one that launched Europa Clipper. Ergzay (talk) 12:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The importance here is the spacecraft and where it is going, not the launcher. Modest Genius talk 13:17, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When the spacecraft reaches it's destination and missions is accomplished then we can blurb about it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we should do both. Two blurbs six years apart isn't too much to ask. Modest Genius talk 12:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The spacecraft hasn't achieved anything though. No discoveries made. That comes in 2030 when it arrives. Ergzay (talk) 06:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It is a major interplanetary mission and it is being covered by WP:RS as a major interplanetary mission. The altblurb is fine. Nsk92 (talk) 16:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Point of order: say eg "Jupiter's moon" not "Jovian" in a blurb, the avg person-on-street doesn't know what that means (no they don't ask them if you don't believe me you are the outlier not them) --Slowking Man (talk) 16:24, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The largest, heaviest, and most expensive interplanetary craft ever built. It is going to a place of extremely high astrobiological interest and has a fair chance of detecting life. If this doesn't deserve a blurb, then nothing relating to uncrewed spaceflight ever will. Agile Jello (talk) 16:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Altblurb While not ITN/R, the successful departure of a mission to an interplanetary voyage is an incredibly rare and notable thing, with just 9 across the past 5 years... And the Outer solar system is rarer still, with just 11 missions launched across the past 51 years. (all missions that have gone past Jupiter have flown by Jupiter as well)
It's ITN/R when it arrives (assuming editors don't strip all spaceflight criteria from ITN/R by then...) but that won't be until 2030. Obviously this departure will have long-since fallen off of the front page by then!
That said, maybe the AltBlurb could do without the first comma in it. Nottheking (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the comma. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Thomas J. Donohue

[edit]
Article: Thomas J. Donohue (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Axios
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:16, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Economics

[edit]
Articles: Daron Acemoglu (talk · history · tag) and Simon Johnson (economist) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies "of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity". (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies of global inequality.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity.
News source(s): The New York Times Noble Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Both Johnson's, and Robinson's article are not ready and need some work. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I think the articles are good enough. If one needs work it's the Acemoglu's. It's a big article thank god and but theres some low quality stuff there like turkish users that keep adding his high school to his "school of thought" category in the infobox 🤦‍♂️ P.S. added another alt blurb without the quotes since it's a verbatim citation that doesnt need quotes IMO Kasperquickly (talk) 14:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Almost there but not yet there Johnson article is missing references and Robinson article still has a banner above it.--ReyHahn (talk) 16:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, not a true Nobel. 2804:388:4101:7F22:1:0:2B66:205B (talk) 17:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is an ITNR item, so the importance is not in doubt. We're only assessing the updates and article quality. Modest Genius talk 18:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Acemoglu's article is in very good shape. Johnson's article is bit light but does meet our minimum requirements. Robinson's is somewhere in between but also good enough to post - the tag is yellow level, which does not disqualify from ITN (only orange and red tags do). I do question what sort of 'institutions' are being referred to in the blurb - could that be clarified? Modest Genius talk 18:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Blurb2 seems to be the way to go.--ReyHahn (talk) 18:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Modest Genius: You're raising a great question on what sort of 'institutions' are being referred to. After taking a quick look at some of the articles, it seems like 'Institutions' is the right target article as it contains a few sentences in which the work of the three authors is explained in the context of how institutions contribute to economic growth (see ... Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson agree with the analysis presented by North. They write that institutions play a crucial role in the trajectory of economic growth because economic institutions shape the opportunities and constraints of investment.[15] Economic incentives also shape political behavior, as certain groups receive more advantages from economic outcomes than others, which allow them to gain political control. A separate paper by Acemoglu, Robinson, and Francisco A. Gallego details the relationships between institutions, human capital, and economic development. They argue that there institutions set an equal playing field for competition, making institutional strength a key factor in economic growth...). Linking to institutional economics would be inappropriate as the field is much broader, and the article does not even mention any of the authors (in fact, their work falls within development economics instead).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose articles are NOT updated. Just the one line in the lead.
update Acemoglu's article is updated a bit more, although could further update.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. All articles are in a good shape. For awards, there is only as much as can be said without going into excessive details, so it is fine. --Tone 09:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tone: I don't think the choice of the blurb was right. We usually use the wording in the statement of the Nobel Committee, which is 'for studies of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity'. There's no notion of 'research on global inequality', and this is largely original research by The New York Times.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 13

[edit]
October 13, 2024 (2024-10-13) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Donald J. Hall

[edit]
Article: Donald J. Hall Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KSHB
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Well-known Hallmark executive. --Engineerchange (talk) 15:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support The article meets our minimum editorial standards... all of its claims are cited by reputable sources, even if "just local ones and Forbes". Whether he is majorly noteworthy beyond the local level is not relevant for discussion here, because this is not the place to take up a WP:GNG fight. Barring the article being nominated at AFD (which I think would resolve in a snow close anyways per Masem), this should be posted. FlipandFlopped ツ 03:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Brush up on WP:BIO, local sources don't count as major reputable sources. They need something with a circulation beyond one metro area. General rule of thumb is they need to be on the perennial reliable sources list. Scuba 21:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Schwede66 20:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New marathon world record for women

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Ruth Chepng'etich (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In women's marathon, Ruth Chepng'etich (pictured) sets a new world record with a time of 2:09:56 to become the first woman to break the 2:10 barriers. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kenyan Ruth Chepng'etich breaks the women's marathon world record at the Chicago Marathon.
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

UCinternational (talk) 11:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support broke it by a considerable margin. Scuba 15:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a huge milestone in women's sports. Rager7 (talk) 21:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above. Rynoip (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The ALT blurb is similar to the format used for the last 2013 posting.—Bagumba (talk) 04:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb. Breaking a major world record, and the linked article is of good quality. -insert valid name here- (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, major record. BilboBeggins (talk) 18:43, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb Dosen't happen every day, and happened at a pretty big event. Normalman101 (talk) 00:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Donal Murray

[edit]
Article: Donal Murray (bishop) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Irish Examiner
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish Roman Catholic prelate. 139.164.154.34 (talk) 07:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Starship Flight 5

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Starship flight test 5 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ SpaceX successfully catches the Super Heavy booster on the launchpad during Starship flight 5. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Reuters
Credits:

One of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history, and one of the most amazing and incredible spaceflights ever. It's hard to understate just how significant this is for the future of space exploration. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I wonder if there is a way to collapse groups of table rows into significant milestone fold outs. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is more a case to just cut it down to a few key points into prose, like the time it launched, the time it was caught, etc, those noted by independent sources. — Masem (t) 16:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There should be a separation between Elon Musk's statement and SpaceX's actions. In this case, this is objectively a new milestone in spaceflight because this demostrated that both of the rocket's stages can be reused, making the entirety of the rocket reusable, and is a prime goal of the Starship development program. WhatisMars (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A new milestone would be sending someone to Mars. I'd support ITN for that. Nigej (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That goes without saying, but we have three Nobel prize winners in ITN, an event that happens without fail every single year and isn't especially newsworthy. It's also something that basically no news media agencies cover. It's clear that the bar for getting into ITN is exceedingly low. Ergzay (talk) 21:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In what nation, User:Ergzay, do the media not cover the Nobels? The news has been full of it lately around here watching local and international channels - the local papers too. Nfitz (talk) 22:34, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
America for one. Google searching for just "nobel prize" I find some minor articles buried. Whereas this spaceX landing is listed as a top news item on both CNN, and Fox News on their front pages, neither of which mentions any nobel prizes. Also I'd note that each nobel prize award got its own separate entry rather than simply combining them. Most of the ITN section is now about nobel prizes. Ergzay (talk) 22:45, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which part of Americas? I see articles from Canada, the USA, and Brazil. one, two, three. Lots of other examples in each nomination as well. Nfitz (talk) 23:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Articles exist, my point was they are not prominent. But anyway, Nobel Prizes have a special exception to the normal rules for ITN content. So even if they wouldn't normally be posted they're posted anyway. Ergzay (talk) 01:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's proof of concept for a more efficient space program. So what? It's no more ITN worthy than every last incremental press-release-worthy improvement out there, whether in controlled fusion, desert reclamation, particle colliders, quantum computing, skyscraper building, telescope power, dark matter detection, and so on and so on. The same level of technological breakthrough would have justified at least two dozen James Webb Space Telescope ITN postings and at least one or two a year ongoing improvements to the various gravitational wave telescopes out there. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 16:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You describe small incremental changes yet dismiss this as only a small incremental improvement when it's unprecedented in the history of spaceflight. Minor discoveries by JWST which are a dime a dozen is not this. Ergzay (talk) 21:08, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was not talking about minor discoveries by JWST (which, by the way, has a good number of major discoveries to boot). I am talking about the astonishing engineering breakthroughs needed to get the JWST to work. The cryocooler, the gold-coated beryllium mirrors, the five layer sunshield, all were completely unprecedented. And LIGO's custom giant mirrors, quantum squeezing, ultra precise lasers, and so much more, have all have been major triumphs of cutting edge physics and engineering. But as they can't be boiled down to a geewhiz video, they are easy to disparage by someone who thinks I was just talking about "minor discoveries". I wasn't. Every one of those developments, and dozens more, in those two projects alone (and across numerous technologies that I gave a very very short list) has been unprecedented and utterly astonishing. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There will never be a time in history, other than today, where the first stage of a rocket booster is caught for the initial first time. Also, JWST was blurbed when it launched, and when it delivered its first imagery. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What was astonishing about JWST was not its engineering breakthroughs but how much it cost. Cryocoolers are standard things that exist in industry, gold plating of metals is also nothing special, the sunshield was made of mylar a common material. So no, nothing there is unprecedented. Ergzay (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the point they were getting at was more: right, now how many of those have been stuffed in a rocket, sent up to L2, then unfolded by computer control, and the instruments incl. mirror cooled and kept at 40 K? Then started snapping pics? In fact one instrument has to be kept at 7 K. Note beryllium is quite brittle, and the mirror itself had to be unfolded! Also the shield has to help keep the stuff that way not only from the Sun but the Earth and Moon which are still much hotter and radiate lots of photons that heat the scope. (Crash thermo 101 review heat goes hotter -> colder also energy = conserved, always has to go somewhere) Note also vacuum is a perfect insulator (think Thermos) so the cryo has to work by boiling off coolant into space, to exhaust the heat somewhere, no air to convect heat away. (All space tin cans w/ onboard bipedal monkeys have to too, ISS uses ammonia)

    For a little perspective: Total lifetime JWST cost projection: $9.7 bil in 2021$, adj to 2023$: $10.8 billion. Using {{inflation}}, nothin up my sleeve here. A smidge >1% of yearly US military spending in 2023 (and/or Medicare, which is slightly higher). (Take note of how often in discourse "cost" is invoked for things like science, vs how often for The Troops™ or for cops) ~3% 2023 US spending on "non-alcoholic drinks" ($328 bil, source internets). Not tap water, this is all drinks sold @ retail excl. booze. (Imagine putting a 1% soda tax on sugared drinks only—things that are not only completely unnecessary but actively terrible for public health—for health & science research! Let's not even get started on booze) .04% 2022 US GDP. Slowking Man (talk) 17:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a reason JWST cost such an incredible amount (and was delayed for such a long long time). Multiple engineering breakthroughs that had to be discovered, tested, developed, invented, and then tested again. (And again and again because it was space.) The MIRI cryocooler had to get down to single digit kelvins. It uses an incredible thermoacoustic system custom invented for JWST, not some off-the-shelf industry standard. The mirrors were made out of beryllium (not standard) and then gold plated (yes, atomic vapor plating is standard) to an incredible precision (not stanard), and then aligned and adjusted after deployment (extremely not standard). The sunshield was a tennis court sized five layer shield, specially coated, specially spaced, so that excess heat would be steered out the gaps, and then it had to be folded up before launch and unfolded just so after launch. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We've had cryocoolers that do way below single digit kelvins for many decades. (There's black and white videos of liquified helium from way back.) Casting/machining things out of beryllium has been done before. Precision of machining is based on your tools so that is also standard. You're arguing that the spacing of a piece of metalized plastic is an engineering breakthrough? It didn't even have to be precise (that's why the spaces were visibly large to make up for the creases/crinkles in the material). Ergzay (talk) 12:46, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (This is going off into sidetrack but space is a much more hostile environment from a nice comfortable lab, everything has to withstand launch stresses, the "cold soak" and often constant warming-cooling cycles, radiation (how many labs are located entirely at the business end of a running particle accelerator), as-hard-as-it-gets vacuum. Also you would like to be able to point the scope at diff things, also also want to minimize vibrations (will mess up observations). On JWST they used a gyro w/out moving parts b/c Hubble's kept wearing out and failing. Also all needs to be light as possible, launching mass costs $$$ but still mounted on a single structure that can bear all load stresses --Slowking Man (talk) 16:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
    Gyros without moving parts have been standard parts on aircraft and personal electronics for many decades before JWST chose to adopt them. Ergzay (talk) 18:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never said they weren't—I was contrasting w/ Hubble, which did use mech gyros (I think like six or eight?), which wore out and needed servicing missions (which themselves aren't free), to illustrate one contributing factor to costs. And the scope needs a bit more precision than that from a laser ring gyroscope in a large aircraft. Positioning error adds up a bit over say, 10 billion light-years. Also it sounds like the JWST gyro is a single pt of failure? Guessing the tolerances and testing on that were very intensive (again, adds to cost, but if your gyro breaks and your billion $ scope becomes quite a bit less useful... Slowking Man (talk) 01:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And to boot, the MIRI cryocooler is intended to last at least five years, and preferably twenty or so, without human or even robot intervention. All in all, User:Ergzay, your comments are simply nuisance and noise, focusing on things well-known and dead-easy that had to be re-imagined and redeveloped in order to be used on the JWST, and then pointing out the completely obvious well-known dead-easy parts and pretending there was no need for actual breakthroughs to go beyond what was already known. One as might as well say this launch was no big deal because heck, I once caught a toy rocket using a butterfly net as a kid. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major breakthrough with the booster catch (a first). Huge step forwards towards fully reusable rockets. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 17:26, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work As an engineering milestone, it's more impressive than Boeing's Starliner snafu. But the article's lead devotes most of its space to a spat with the FAA and seems to need re-balancing now. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: not sure why every single advancement in spaceflight needs to be blurbed. 128.91.40.237 said it best.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not just a "advancement". It's a landmark event in the history of spaceflight. Ergzay (talk) 21:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Semantics. And WP:PUFFERY. And WP:BLUDGEON. The most generous description by the New York Times is "a feat of technical wizardry". CNN's highest praise was "its most ambitious Starship test flight yet". Associated Press called it an "engineering feat" and "boldest test flight yet". Reuters called it "another novel engineering feat". These are descriptions worthy of DYK, not ITN.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 00:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a cringe statement. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 02:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry, I'm not following. Are you arguing that because the media is hyping it too much that that somehow makes ineligible for inclusion in the ITN section? If so I really don't understand the purpose of the ITN section. Is it not supposed to cover things that are notable and "in the news"? I cannot find your criteria anywhere in the ITN rules. Ergzay (talk) 12:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am saying that it is one remarkable step among many on a long path, but it gets ridiculously disproportionate hype, between "space" and "Musk". The press release hype does not belong in this discussion, but it's what we get right from the beginning: "One of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history" from the nominator. Rank balderdash. "This will be in engineering textbooks for decades to come" from the first comment. Silly piffle. But this wildly exaggerated hype is supposed to be a reason to support. Remove it, and you're left with mildly interesting development, whose value will be determined way down the line from now when actually interesting spaceflights occur. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fully and rapidly reusable rockets would be one of the biggest advances in human history (by making large-scale space access affordable) and the first-ever booster catch is a major step towards that. I'm sure it will be in engineering textbooks decades from now. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The significance of this event has absolutely nothing to do with "Musk". I dislike the man plenty myself (even if I used to like him). This is not "press release hype". It's the widely believed opinion of basically everyone in the industry. And yes it is absolutely one of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history and hes it absolutely will be in engineering textbooks for years to come. Why would you remove it other than "I don't like it"? Ergzay (talk) 12:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I'm saying that not even these reliable sources are calling this some sort of landmark achievement in science and engineering. I'm saying the media isn't hyping it enough. Most of their descriptions are essentially "whoa this is neat".  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 20:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think your own source stating "a feat of technical wizardy" is a bit beyond "whoa this is neat". And necessarily a journalist is not an engineer. Ergzay (talk) 12:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is a bit beyond. But only a bit. It is far far short of the ludicrous, ridiculous, exaggerated hype we are getting here for Support. As in, no it is not "one of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history". I'll concede maybe in all of 2024. And it will not be in "engineering textbooks" whatsoever, except maybe a photo or something, whatever strikes the textbook publisher's hype department's fancy. For the most obvious of reasons: the textbook is about the basics of the subject. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above Ion.want.uu (talk) 20:15, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment One thing to remember, is that this test program is iterative. On each flight they plan to do a bit more. This is the 5th test flight. We did blurb Starship flight test 1, where both the stage 1 booster and stage 2 Starship spacecraft blew up after launch. The next 3 flights were also nominated. I would have thought that both Starship flight test 3 and Starship flight test 4 would have been possibly significant enough to blurb. In test flight 3, the booster exploded prematurely, but not before releasing the Starship spacecraft which did finally make it to space before exploding on re-entry. In test flight 4 both the booster and spacecraft successfully soft-landed in the ocean. For today's flight, the advances were that the booster sucessfully landed for the first time (with the capture by the launch tower) and the spacecraft soft-landing was more accurate, with less heat damage to the spacecraft. It seems to me that after the flight 1, the first sucessful launch (flight 3) was the most significant, followed by the first successful soft-landings (flight 4). So if those weren't blurbed, this shouldn't be either.
But at the same time, what is the line? The first successful landing on land (or ship) of the Starship spacecraft? The first orbital flight (those so far have been sub-orbital)? The first crewed flight (maybe Polaris-3?)? The first test landing attempt of Starship HLS on the Moon? The first test landing attempt on Mars? The first successful flight to lunar NHRO? The first Artemis 3 propellant flight? The launch of the Artemis 3 Starship HLS? There's many, many steps to this - and that doesn't include the obvious ITN items relating to the crewed portion of Artemis 3 moonshot. Perhaps we should lay out what these steps are in ITN/R so we don't have these last-minute discussions, where many don't appear to be fully aware of what is actually being done, or what the significance of an individual flight is. Nfitz (talk) 21:02, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll also note that many people who oppose these posts don't seem to even understand what is significant int spaceflight and what is insignificant. Like in the previous nomination several people mentioned making it to orbit as being significant and landing Starship being less significant versus that. That showed a clear lack of understanding of the subject matter on what is and what is not significant. Ergzay (talk) 21:14, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's all just so otherworldly. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speak for yourself. (As in, your comments, while meant to clarify, are borderline personal attacks.) I oppose (strongly). And I also agree this was a spectacular, significant development for spaceflight. But I am not one of those people who think a play-by-play on the ongoing greatest moments in the development of spaceflight is all that ITN-worthy. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 21:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is arguing for a play-by-play. But if an event happens that has never happened before in history, do you not consider that sufficiently "in the news"? Ergzay (talk) 22:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The argument for test flight 2 being blurbed is that because less engines failed, it once again was the most powerful launch. In a program like this, isn't every flight something that has never happened before in history? Tomorrow SpaceX launches the largest interplantery probe ever built; do we blurb that? 2 hours after that SpaceX will land Crew-8 after it's record-breaking 7-month spacelight to the ISS - never before has a 4-person flight (or an American flight) lasted this long. Nfitz (talk) 22:47, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That argument for test flight 2 is a pretty poor one. It's still the same rocket. It gaining some thrust to make it again the most powerful is not notable. The rocket will be making further upgrades in the future to increase thrust further, also not notable. I'm not sufficiently knowledgable to know if you're making a correct statement that Europa Clipper is the largest interplanetary probe ever built. Even if that was the case however, I would not blurb about the launch. I would blurb about its arrival to Jupiter however. As the blurb would focus on the science it will do. It's launch isn't notable until it's actually capable of doing the mission. If a disaster occurred however I would blurb about it. Crew-8 as the number implies is just another crew rotation, nothing notable there. Ergzay (talk) 22:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will landing Starship be significant User:Ergzay? It certainly won't be the first spacecraft to land - they've been doing that since the 1960s. It won't be the first reusable spacecraft to land. And it won't be the first to land on legs. I'd argue that making it to orbit, and the booster landing in this novel way would be more significant. Nfitz (talk) 22:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Landing the Starship upper stage would be significant yes, but we're over a year a way from that at least. To make a comparison, it would be at least equivalent to the first landing of the Space Shuttle, though likely even more important than that. There's only one orbital rocket in history that's landed vertically before, Falcon 9, and we definitely put that in the news section (assuming we had that section back then).
Making it to orbit is not at all significant, almost to the point of irrelevance. The vehicle already has the performance to do so. They've simply been refraining from doing so. I would oppose any attempt to put an in the news segment for a Starship reaching orbit, similarly for it releasing its first payload into orbit. The notable events coming up that I see deserving of being in this section is, this grab with the chopsticks, a future grab with the chopsticks of the Starship upper stage, the first landing on the moon of Starship, and the first landing on the moon with humans. Ergzay (talk) 22:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMO the first ship landing will be notable, first manned flight will be notable, first HLS lunar landing will be notable, of course the Artemis missions will be, and if the unmanned Mars missions go ahead in 2 years I could see that meeting the threshold PrecariousWorlds (talk) 04:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've not opposed this, User:Natg 19. I've been discussing it and asking questions. I've come to the conclusion that this is ITN, and not just another SpaceX test flight. And not just another rocket to land after launch - and this one is absolutely massive, the biggest in history - far more powerful than a Saturn V. And the capture technique is completely novel. Nfitz (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for my mischaracterization, struck that. Natg 19 (talk) 21:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - We don't need a steady drip feed of updates about this project. The amount of puffery surrounding it is quite unreasonable. The technical achievements are impressive, but attempts to spin each individual test as a revolutionary advance in space flight run rapidly into the field of excessively specific superlatives. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry but you really do not understand the significance here. This landing was absolutely a revolutionary advancement in spaceflight. There is no "spin" here. It's really evident that there's an overall lack of education on spaceflight matters on the general side of Wikipedia. Nothing like this has ever been achieved in the history of humanity. This is not "puffery". This article is a reasonable post describing the significance. Ergzay (talk) 12:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose like all the other partial test flights. As I've commented on the previous nominations, if/when Starship successfully puts a genuine payload into orbit we should post. Not each incremental improvement in the test flights. SpaceX is getting there, which is good for them, but it's not an operating launch vehicle yet. Modest Genius talk 12:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But putting a payload in orbit is NOT significant... This flight was not "incremental". It was revolutionary. I would be against putting the flight where they achieve orbit in ITN because that is not notable. Ergzay (talk) 12:37, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a bizarre view of significance. You don't think it's important for a orbital launch vehicle to actually launch something useful to orbit? A photogenic booster landing is all very well, but Starship hasn't achieved its purpose yet. It's still a work in progress, and ITN shouldn't post each step of that progress, only when the goal is actually achieved. Modest Genius talk 15:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Boeing's Starliner mission ultimately failed, yet we still blurbed the launch. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nonsense. Starliner successfully transported two astronauts to the ISS, at which point it was posted in ITN. That they didn't use the same spacecraft to come down again is irrelevant, especially as that was months later than the nomination. Starship hasn't successfully launched anything yet. Modest Genius talk 15:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The significance is that this is a landmark event in the history of spaceflight. A single in-development rocket reaching orbit is a development milestone but not a significant event for history. This catch of a rocket out of midair is something most people thought impossible but was achieved. It's also the largest rocket in history, twice the thrust of the Saturn V rocket that took humans to the moon, yet it's first stage was caught out of mid air. The thing is 9 meters wide and 70 meters long. It's the size of a ~20 story building.
    The rocket is already capable of orbit (it had significant visible fuel reserves left, but shut down early to avoid going into orbit). So reaching orbit is just about reaching a confidence point that they're sure they can get it back out of orbit and not leave the largest ever piece of space debris in orbit and also a regulatory point to be allowed to do so.Ergzay (talk) 12:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per support comments above. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose per all the opposing opinions expressed above. This is just an another nomination of SpaceX flight be touted as the "first time in the history to do (...)". We have already have posted many stories about this company's flights and I don't think we should it anymore unless something really Big happens in the future. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The booster catch is one such "something really big" event and should be posted. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 14:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This achievement actually is a really big deal. It's easy to become disillusioned with all the partisan politics surrounding Musk, but the fact is we've witnessed history being made. Reusable large first-stage boosters are the predecessor to putting payloads into space being economical (at scale). We aren't getting off this planet without reusable launch systems. I'd encourage folks to put Musk's politics aside and perhaps read this article. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:40, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is "getting off this planet" ever except maybe to do some dangerous work like research and mining, prob a lot of it on one-way trips. You can already get a good simulation of a place like the Moon or Mars: it's called Antarctica or the ocean floor. For better realism, you must also carry your closed atmosphere around, have a running particle accelerator pointed at you at all times, and rely on only infrequent resupply stuff & no such thing as "emergency evac". Get some nasty trauma, DVT cardiac arrhythmia cancer autoimmune thing mental/psych w/ev yall are handling it w/what you got, no one is coming to rescue you. What's your training look like for "one of your crew develops bipolar type I, tries to take over as dictator and tries to kill anyone who resists"?

And this is still "easy mode" haven't even turned down the grav yet, how do osteoporosis & muscle wasting sound? Go ahead and book a trip to those places no one is stopping you Slowking Man (talk) 17:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly how was "history made?" This wasn't the first time a vehicle was propulsively recovered in a vertical landing; after all, SpaceX has done that over 300 times already. (and even that wasn't the first time it was done) It wasn't the first propulsive recovery of a vehicle in the Starship program either; they've accomplished that with the upper stage already. The only way it's a "first" is to heavily qualify it, as the first ever vertical recovery via a method they invented just for this program. This is equivalent to saying "This is the first time anyone has changed the channel on television using my new invention, the 'Fing-longer'."
The claims to Starship being a "big deal" hinge upon its long, long-term claims that it will "Colonize Mars." While that objective would most certainly be newsworthy, this particular accomplishment hardly finishes proving it'll be a success & they have all the difficult steps out of the way... And the overall results of the mission have cast further doubt on that ever happening... So to act like this is "making history" based upon it fulfilling that far-off dream would be premature, and as would posting it to ITN. Nottheking (talk) 20:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Starship is a "big deal" because of its extremely low cost of payload to orbit, not that it will eventually assist in colonizing Mars. That cost is estimated in various sources as dropping the cost of payload to orbit by one or two orders of magnitude enabling all manner of things like holidaying in low earth orbit for the price of an expensive cruise and entirely revolutionizing the space economy. Starlink now having 6000+ satellites in orbit is the tip of the iceberg here. And yes if you can get things to orbit cheaply you can go out and explore the moon, Mars and other celestial objects as well for dirt cheap compared to current prices, and maybe eventually colonize Mars. One of the _key_ questions about the entire vehicle though was whether it could be recovered via this completely outlandish recovery system. So yes it's making history. Ergzay (talk) 05:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue that this is, as you said, a really big story. Scuba 15:20, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support After discussing this I've come to the conclusion that this is ITN, and not just another SpaceX test flight. This rocket is monstrously huge - the biggest ever, far bigger than Saturn V. Making this rocket reusable changes spaceflight forever. And then there's the completely new and incredible way of it landing - being caught in mid-air by something akin to chopsticks, rather than ever touching the ground. There's significant international coverage - it's even on the top of the fold this morning in the biggest national paper here. Nfitz (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Theoretically support since this seems like an important accomplishment, but oppose for now since the article's body needs more prose about the flight & the catch. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree on the article needing more improvement I already rewrote the header. The article already existed before the launch so it was mostly dedicated to chronicling events leading up to the launch. Editors welcome. Ergzay (talk) 13:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Catching the booster is a very important accomplishment, but the article needs more prose about the actual flight (2 sentences and a table isn't enough). Otherwise, might be a good candidate for ITN
IMO, notable Starship flights for ITN are: first ship catch, first ship to ship prop transfer, HLS demo, Crew Starship. Stoplookin9 Hey there! Send me a message! 02:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Successful test flights really aren't especially ITN-noteworthy. Apollo 9 was an extremely important test flight in the lunar program, but it was not the Moon landing -- in fact, it didn't even leave Earth orbit, let alone go to the Moon. Similarly, we should have care to address an iterative program such as Starship based on the actual landmark achievements and not the technical ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaltCip (talk • contribs) 14:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. People opposing this are failing to understand the significance of this flight. This is the largest and most ambitious rocket ever flown, and if it works as intended it will completely revolutionize spaceflight and even humanity as a whole. This flight basically validated the design of the rocket and provided us with one of the most impressive feats of engineering ever seen. Agile Jello (talk) 16:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • You said it yourself: if it works as intended. Whether it ever will is something there's been legitimate doubt about, (Elon Musk has already confessed that the payload claims are out of reach, and it appears on top of carrying less than Falcon Heavy, it's slower & more expensive too) so celebrating it as the success now would be premature. If it actually makes a successful orbital mission & turnaround that proves those lofty claims as anything more than hypberbole? Then yes, that'd actually merit being newsworthy. Nottheking (talk) 20:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Elon Musk did not confess that the payload claims were out of reach. And no reputable source has ever claimed it will carry less than Falcon Heavy. The "if" in the previous poster's claim was talking in the past tense before this flight happened as this flight validated the design of the first stage enabling at least partial reuse.
      And as I've already explained elsewhere, the vehicle is already capable of making a successful orbital mission, they've just elected to not enter orbit (a couple of meters per second shy of it) for safety reasons as the design is fleshed out. Making orbit would not be more notable/in the news versus this mid-air rocket catch feat.Ergzay (talk) 06:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Another few months, yet another incremental Starship test flight that goes a bit further than the one before. It became the general consensus that posting IFT-1 had been a mistaken, and IFT-2, IFT-3, and IFT-4 weren't posted.
SpaceX is taking a highly iterative development strategy here, which means that every few months we have another flight, that often (but not always) manages to bag a "first," and the company's marketing arm milks it. While impressive, catching a booster (while the upper stage still experienced the burn-through that marred IFT-4 while being too heavy to carry an actual payload) was visually impressive, it was pretty small in the big picture of things. Most push to highlight efforts here aren't based upon actual achievements, but by highlighting the lofty promises of what it might do in the future. This wasn't landing a person on Mars; this was like step 5 in a 10,000-step road to that.
That's the big takeaway here: the overall calculus/state of Starship isn't changed by the result of this uncrewed test. To put this in ITN would be basically to make ITN a "ticker" for Starship. Nottheking (talk) 20:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. This mid-air catch absolutely changed the overall calculus/sate of Starship. Yes SpaceX is taking an iterative development strategy, but that doesn't mean you can simply ignore every single thing that happens along the way until you reach a random mundane "Starship delivered a payload to orbit". You choose to ignore all the major news items and instead focus on the mundane in the hopes maybe that that too will be avoided from being put into ITN.
And yes landing a person on Mars would be certainly ITN, but there's many other events in spaceflight history that also are relevant to being ITN. Up thread they're even celebrating the launch of a spacecraft, something relatively mundane and everyday. Ergzay (talk) 06:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What changed? For the past few years, their plan has been to do exactly this as one single element in their overall system. They succeeded in completing one single step in something that will require a lot of other steps that "have never been done before" in order to actually accomplish its objectives. For instance, no one has ever transferred cryogenic propellants in deep space, or even used a cryogenic propulsion system more than about a week post-launch. (e.g, all long-duration rocket stages have been either solid or hypergolic propellant)
Most "support" !votes have boiled down to claiming this has "changed the game," in spite the fact that for SpaceX, this is just a natural continuation of the game plan they've been following for at least the better part of a decade. So your claim that the "overall calculus/state" was "absolutely changed." The most that could be really said there is that... It didn't fall further behind schedule?
Also trying to compare this to the launch of an outer-planet probe (something that has only happened 11 times in history, and about twice a decade) is uninformed at best, (and one others have used disingenuously) because it just plain doesn't match up. That's akin to calling the completion of a new "world's tallest building" (something that happens every few years or so) just "you completed a structure; that happens every day."
So again, what changed? I don't see any real arguments beyond superlatives over how this is a "first," and nothing on the ramifications. Nottheking (talk) 22:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The what changed is they achieved something most people thought was impossible or a wild-eyed rant by Elon Musk when he first proposed it. I myself thought that this was a fanciful idea and debated exactly this on places like Reddit. I thought they would fall back on some kind of normal landing system just as they fell back on many other design concepts. I was sure there was going to be an impressive explosion with significant pad damage. Instead they literally caught a rocket falling through the sky out of midair with massive articulating arms, all broadcasted live, and they made it look easy. The only people who really seemed to believe it was possible were the hardcore Elon Musk zealots who believe anything the man says. (I can bring up sources of well known respected industry experts doubting it if you'd like.) Propellant transfer is an impressively difficult problem but it's not the level of magic and observableness that this mid-air catch of a rocket was. As to your 11 times in history, there's only been 5 starship launches in history and less successes, and if you arbitrarily limit the criteria sufficiently everything becomes a unique event. Outer solar system vs inner solar system probes only really differ in the time they take to get there via successive gravitational slingshots.Ergzay (talk) 00:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; I usually scoff at these Starship noms, but this IS a fairly massive step towards making reusable rockets a reality. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It's better to look at the aerospace organizations' statement about the flight: AIAA Statement on Fifth SpaceX Starship Test Flight (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) and NSS Praises Fifth Test Flight of SpaceX Starship (National Space Society). Based on these statements, it is clear that IFT-5 is a transformative event in spaceflight. Most of the opposes here are made from uninformed editors that are blinded by the hate towards SpaceX and using their power and votes to keep this discussion round and round and round until it's too late to put it on in the news. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a strategy that I've paid attention too during other test flights of Starship. I noticed that when talking about Starship, other editors use lingos such as "scoff", "yet another", and "aren't especially ITN-noteworthy", whereas for other non-SpaceX launches, the words are much more meadow and polite. It might be editors are blocking Starship news towards in the news section is a way for them to vent the hate towards SpaceX, towards Elon, and somehow this will make them feel better as a result. But it is important to separate SpaceX and Elon, and Starship and Elon.
    This test flight is important because it will signal that new rockets that is designed full reusability in mind is practical and competitive on the market. Starship to spaceflight is like the HMS Dreadnought to the navy in the 20th century. Pre-dreadnought and Dreadnought, Expendable and Reusable launch vehicle. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Pinging all opposed editors: @Nigej, @Bait30, @Natg 19, @GenevieveDEon, @Modest Genius, @PrinceofPunjab, @WaltCip, @Nottheking. I don't like doing this, but I felt that statements from established aerospace organizations might make you reconsider your position that this is a "trivial" test flight. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not in the slightest. Of course organisations dedicated to rocketry and spaceflight paid attention to this launch. I would be astounded if they didn't. That doesn't make it any more or less suitable for ITN. I also strongly dislike the accusation of bad faith above - we're all expressing our sincere opinions. See WP:AGF and don't hound users who disagree with you. For what it's worth, I think the support !votes have been sensationalist and buying into hype. Modest Genius talk 18:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I cannot assume good faith when people say things like:
    • The same level of technological breakthrough would have justified at least two dozen James Webb Space Telescope ITN postings and at least one or two a year ongoing improvements to the various gravitational wave telescopes out there.
    • Semantics. And WP:PUFFERY. And WP:BLUDGEON.
    • To put this in ITN would be basically to make ITN a "ticker" for Starship.
    • Most if not all of these test flights are testing new capabilities, as SpaceX works on a software-style iterative process, so they may be "firsts", but don't feel they are especially significant. When Starship gets to the moon, that is newsworthy as a new moon landing. For now, this is just a cool feat.
    when the Europa Clipper launch is not subjected towards that level of scrunity. Bad faith is obvious and can be seen. You will not say these things if you are talking to people in real life. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nobody (especially myself) said anything that could possibly be interpreted as technological engineering breakthroughs needed to get JWST and LIGO on-board were ITN-worthy, again and again and again. I was objecting to the ridiculous hype surrounding the launch's achievement. Such hype was then used as a basis for ITN-support. And I also strongly object to the completely uncalled for personal attacks coming from some supporters here, who seem to think that the opposition just has to be based on some kind of space-program ignorance. For the record, I grew up with the Apollo program, I watched Neil Armstrong take his small step/giant leap live on TV, I had endless model rockets and space posters and all. (Heck, I was also an eyewitness who saw Solo shoot first!) Career-wise I've alternated between academia and industry, including one stint working for NASA as a bona fide rocket scientist. So I've seen quite a few engineering breakthroughs in the space program, just none that were as photogenic or as easy for the non-involved (aka ignorant masses) to comprehend as the Starship catch. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also Not in the slightest. This is a test flight with some success. As noted below, the article itself is also not up to standard. Wasn't there some damage? Let's have a nomination when something really significant happens, not just a gee-wizz we've caught something in mid air. Nigej (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also not in the slightest. "Established Aerospace organizations" have not been super-sensationalist... And while they were involved, this is a given as it was a spaceflight; those are always a big deal, (even if not ITN) and still don't happen every day.
    The hype has mostly been channeled by the mainstream media, (which is a bit infamous for not understanding a lot of what they talk about, as is quickly evidenced in nearly every press briefing NASA holds...) which has mostly given in to how much SpaceX leans into the PR side of things: SpaceX makes a big deal about it, with a lot of noise, and pressures news organizations to give them a lot of free press over it. It's how the company (like all other "tech-startup" types) have always worked.
    Also worth noting that most of the "support" !votes have been... Largely just conveying the same hype, without any objective analysis of the facts. For instance, no one's mentioned the serious anomaly suffered by the upper stage, which had a mission to test fixes to the TPS burnthrough that resulted in the partial failure of IFT-4. (as a refresher, the heat shield proved insufficient to keep an upper flap from partly melting, resulting in IFT-4's touchdown being several kilometers off-target; however while IFT-5's upper stage managed to touch down )It's been telling that a lot of the messaging from SpaceX is to retroactively imply that there was zero importance to the outcome of the upper stage, which is a tactic they've done after... Well, almost every single partial/full failure. (e.g, the complete failure of IFT-1 due to an improper launch facility was handwaved as a "we meant that" even though it rendered a test that cost them several hundred million dollars pointless)
    And it's not going to be alone. Ostensibly IFT-6 will come along, (probably sometime early 2025) and it will very likely do something that is also in the "never actually been done before" category. And SpaceX & the mainstream media will hype it up as a huge "game changer," even though again, it will... Just affirm the same game plan SpaceX has been following (if behind-schedule) for around 7 years now. And a lot of people buying into that hype will argue that it's unfair to not consider it "major history being made" when it gets nominated for ITN as well. Because this is how it played out four prior times already.
    So from an objective standpoint, it's a single, iterative step forward; it's one step down, 10,000 or so to go. Was it cool to look at and makes for a jaw-dropping 10-second clip? Sure, but that's not "ITN," that's "trends on social media." Considering that ITN would be on the same level of covering social media fallout from a scandal like the Mr. McMahon documentary or the Pokémon leak. Or even (to go with an analogy used a few times around here) like asserting that each new Beta test for a wildly new version of Windows launches, and not just the final product releasing.
    It's also worth noting that I'm writing this because... Someone opted to ping everyone they disagreed with to imply an accusation of bad faith. Not the most resounding position to ground an attempted educational, scholarly debate over; again, that's more social media/reality TY-esque sensationalism, and in that form almost a form of ad hominem. Nottheking (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They didn't just imply bad faith, they straight up accused it lol. I cannot assume good faith and Bad faith is obvious and can be seen.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not in the slightest, sorry. My opposition rationale is unchanged. In fact, I think my Apollo 9 comparison might have been overly generous. This is closer to the unmanned Apollo tests like AS-201. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Incidentally, pinging me to get me to change my !vote and thereafter accusing me of bad faith is not necessarily against Wikipedia policy - however, it's a shockingly poor persuasion tactic. Imagine walking into Starbucks demanding a free coffee and then calling the barista a loser and an idiot before they've even said yes or no. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not changing my vote because what I said above is my own personal opinion. In fact, I am now changing it to strongly oppose. I also don't appreciate you pinging all the opposing votes. Here, in the ITN/C, we respect everyone's opinion. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You are not assuming good faith. You and a couple of other editors are accusing every opposing user of either being Elon haters or not knowing anything about space. That is not a good attitude to have when trying to convince someone to agree with you. What you should have done was have the article mention what you think makes it that impactful and significant as you claim it is. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Admin comment) I'm surprised to find that the pertinent prose in the target article is unreferenced. Schwede66 19:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Glad someone finally noted that. I had been agruing about that for a long time, but the "chief editor" of this article opposes and ignores 47.67.225.78 (talk) 08:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose per Blaylockjam10. I waited for a bit before voting because I was hoping the article would be a bit more developed by now, still seems relatively the same. I will support it if the article improves. Very impressive catch nonetheless. Hungry403 (talk) 21:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the first catch of the booster for a fully reusable rocket system and the first on target deorbit of it's upper stage are incredibly consequential events in human history, let alone qualifying as news. The idea that a marathon being record broken is more significant news than this is absurd. TaqPCR (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per nottheking and Modest Genius. Every successful SpaceX test launch is of course impressive and will inevitably be commended with praise, but we are not a personal SpaceX updates ticker operating on behalf of Elon Musk. We can post when all of these test launches add up to a more finalized product... a more major landmark event. I also note that I am disappointed in the wonton nature in which some are accusing other editors of bad faith simply for expressing skepticism about posting individual test flights in principle. Please, please stick to WP:AGF. FlipandFlopped ツ 03:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This flight was not "every successful SpaceX test launch". I did not participate in previous Starship ITN discussions (other than flight 4 discussion which was the first successful landing, but did push my opinion very hard). If there was actual risk of us becoming a SpaceX updates ticker then sure I would agree with you, but only the very first flight, a year and a half ago which was a pretty large "failure", actually got an entry. So we're already going against NPOV by only including launch failures.

    We can post when all of these test launches add up to a more finalized product... a more major landmark event.

    Several people have said something similar to this, but when is that exactly? First orbit is nowhere near as impressive as this landing. As time goes on launches will be come more ho-hum resulting in even more people pushing against their inclusion (just as you just did with the argument that the ITN section shouldn't become a SpaceX updates ticker). First lunar landing? That's several years away.

    I also note that I am disappointed in the wonton nature in which some are accusing other editors of bad faith simply for expressing skepticism about posting individual test flights in principle. Please, please stick to WP:AGF.

    Then don't make arguments that imply that proponents are "operating on behalf of Elon Musk". Ergzay (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ergzay, Nowhere in my above comment did I say that any Wikipedia editors are "operating on behalf of Elon Musk". You conveniently cut out the prior part of the sentence where I stated my position in principle that posting individual test launches would render ITN a SpaceX updates ticker, which is something Elon/SpaceX should be operating and not Wikipedia.
Engaging in belligerent, harassing responses to every single oppose voter and continuing to make sweeping accusations of bad faith over an ITN nom is inappropriate. You have made dozens of comments, almost all of which were berating editors with the opposing view. I strongly advise you cease this behaviour and that you do not continue to reply to me, nor to anyone else in this manner, or else this matter will inevitably be escalated to ANI. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The implication was fully there that by proposing SpaceX launches be in ITN that editors were operating on behalf of Elon Musk. I'll at least admit that you apparently did not think you were implying that. Secondly, responding to oppose posters and trying to educate them is not disallowed here. I am not harassing anyone (though lots of editors are accusing people of harassing them by responding). Nor am I alleging bad faith. I fully believe that they actually believe what they are writing. I'm alleging ignorance on the part of many editors to this dramatic moment of spaceflight history and trying to educate them. If I'm doing that in a way that doesn't perform that very well, well I only have myself to blame. On ANI notices, I've been brought there before and have yet to ever had ANI rule against me. I'm quite good at following just within the rules. Ergzay (talk) 00:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is saying that responding to comments is "against the rules" or worthy of a block, but it does seem to qualify as WP:BLUDGEONing, which is highly discouraged. Natg 19 (talk) 00:38, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the dissenting opinions. I don't think every single SpaceX launch needs to be posted on the main page. LiamKorda 04:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's only been a single Starship launch on the main page and there hasn't been a Falcon launch on the main page in years. Ergzay (talk) 22:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This discussion is absurd: every major news outlet in the world is running headline stories about this (I'll add The Economist to the long list already shared), yet this prevailing argument seems to be that this is "just another launch" so they shouldn't be doing that? ITN is judged on significance, and catching a 275 ton rocket the size of the Statue of Liberty plummeting to Earth at 4000 km/h with a pair of chopsticks is doubly significant: it's a magnificent feat of engineering in itself, and (as the Economist above states) it clears the final obstacle to access to space that's orders of magnitude cheaper that anything we have today. Subsequent test flights will not be nearly as momentous, in fact the next big event will be when the test flights end and commercial service starts. Jpatokal (talk) 06:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Kcmastrpc (talk · contribs) put it well: "There will never be a time in history, other than today, where the first stage of a rocket booster is caught for the initial first time." Ylee (talk) 09:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but work needed -> oppose. The topic is more than newsworthy, but the article has some shortcomings. Apart from the bias described, especially because of the constant use of often dubious YT videos as source, describing what is seem (original research) or what some commentator guesses. Second thought: Now it's too late for a news item, after almost a week has passed. Be quicker with the next flight test, if that achieves similar breakthroughs. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 11:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "be quicker" they nominated it the day it launched. TaqPCR (talk) 18:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I meant deciding. It still is an open discussion here. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah and we got a bunch of supports from people who edit articles about technical topics and a bunch of opposes from people who seem to near exclusively update sports articles minus a few who edit sports and politics talking about how it's not notable because it didn't put a payload into orbit. I suppose they got their way, we have yet another successful falcon heavy launch sending Europa clipper on its way and apparently that's more notable even though it's just cruising till 2030. TaqPCR (talk) 21:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm glad this discussion wasn't closed early by people who simply didn't want to hear about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

[edit]
Consensus against posting. --Tone 10:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Conspiracy theories spread in the aftermath of Hurricanes Helene and Milton. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Milton makes landfall in the U.S. state of Florida, followed by conspiracy theories and misinformation.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Violence against recovery workers spreads after Hurricane Milton makes landfall in the U.S. state of Florida.
News source(s): Washington Post, New York Times, Associated Press
Credits:
Now that the storms have subsided, a major topic of national news is the misinformation and conspiracy theories spreading about the hurricanes and the disaster relief. — Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 06:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tsk tsk... trying to influence the weather by organizing a conspiratorial flashmob snowdance... :) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 07:24, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 12

[edit]
October 12, 2024 (2024-10-12) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Science and technology

RD: Lillian Schwartz

[edit]
Article: Lillian Schwartz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ARTnews
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted American visual artist. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD73:1B35:1B3F:3F59 (talk) 06:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support besides a lack of ISBN codes for her publications the article looks good and is properly cited. Scuba 21:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ka (rapper)

[edit]
Article: Ka (rapper) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pitchfork, The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Rapper and firefighter. Died on the 12th, death was announced today. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 23:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs citations in discography. Scuba 21:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article appears to be fully cited. toweli (talk) 21:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tylee Craft

[edit]
Article: Tylee Craft (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Football player for the University of North Carolina. 240F:7A:6253:1:AD2F:6B55:B4EB:821E (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lilly Ledbetter

[edit]
Article: Lilly Ledbetter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American activist who sued Goodyear for gender discrimination. 240F:7A:6253:1:AD2F:6B55:B4EB:821E (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in great shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:01, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above. Rynoip (talk) 19:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Three cn tags. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Appear resolved. —Bagumba (talk) 05:05, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted—Bagumba (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tito Mboweni

[edit]
Article: Tito Mboweni (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former financial minister of South Africa. 240F:7A:6253:1:550C:B8BE:A7FB:50AC (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose chunks of article aren't sourced. Scuba 14:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jackmaster

[edit]
Article: Jackmaster (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Real name Jack Revill, Scottish DJ who tragically passed away after complications following a head injury. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:29, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Black Kite, PrinceofPunjab, and Scu ba: I've added it to the article, is it now good enough to have your support votes? Abcmaxx (talk) 08:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping Support article looks good now. Scuba 21:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is good to go now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Schwede66: added a ref there. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Baba Siddique

[edit]
Article: Baba Siddique (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Economic Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian politician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft oppose bad prose, personal life is only a sentence and is uncited. Article needs a touchup before posting. Scuba 21:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: G. N. Saibaba

[edit]
Article: G. N. Saibaba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Professor and human rights activist.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article seems quite good. Rynoip (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) RD/Blurb: Alex Salmond

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Alex Salmond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former first minister of Scotland Alex Salmond (pictured), a prominent figure in the Scottish independence movement, dies at age 69. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former first minister of Scotland Alex Salmond (pictured) dies at the age of 69.
News source(s): The Times, Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
  • Support Woah, this is how I find out? At first glance article seems good to go, I might even suggest to consider a blurb here given his importance in the Scottish independence referendum/movement. The Kip (contribs) 16:51, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that it's being discussed, support blurb - the Scottish independence referendum was one of Europe's most notable political events in recent memory, and the impact of the movement Salmond sat at the top of was significant across the continent. Easily a transformative figure in British and European politics. The Kip (contribs) 21:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What criteria of statehood does it meet? Is it legislatively independent? Does it control territory? Is it a member of international organisations like the European Union or the United Nations? Yes, Scotland is a country. But it is a subnational country. AusLondonder (talk) 06:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"subnational country" is quite the oxymoron RachelTensions (talk) 20:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb dare I say he was the most important person in Scottish politics for a while. Scuba 21:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 11

[edit]
October 11, 2024 (2024-10-11) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

(Posted) RD: Mike Bullard (comedian)

[edit]
Article: Mike Bullard (comedian) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Toronto Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Canadian stand-up comic and broadcaster. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Needs review) RD: Ward Christensen

[edit]
Article: Ward Christensen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ycombinator News, Mastodon
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The co-founder of the world's first BBS and creator XMODEM was found dead on October 11th. Likely needs additional verification before posting. +++ATH0 Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article looks okay now to me I think? /me holds up off-hook phone handset in memory \n<CR> --- NO CARRIER
(yes I know that's more IRC) Slowking Man (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article is a stub currently. Rynoip (talk) 21:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's really not, there are no stub tags or categories present. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This rolls off INTC today, but I'm not even sure it would make it on the ticker. Sad really, considering he was the co-founder of what could be considered the predecessor of what we all use today to communicate. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready. This is a bio without any biographical detail other than career and death, plus an unreferenced date of birth. Nothing on education, say. This is an example of a stub that manages to exceed the usual character count barrier where we generally assign start class. Schwede66 19:34, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You saw that I removed the DOB on the infobox after you tagged that, but the DOB in the lead wasn't CN-tagged so I overlooked that. I'm not sure why you wouldn't remove that as well instead of drive-by CN tagging after you'd tagged the infobox. He is credited with co-creating the first dial-up BBS, which is covered in the article, which is more than career and death, but I'm sensing an aversion to posting this for some reason and I'm not sure what it is. Either way, dropping it. What a weird hill to die on. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kcmastrpc, I tagged it so that someone who is interested in the topic can add a reference. You may perceive that as "drive-by tagging" but I see that action as working collaboratively with other editors. And no, I didn’t check the edit history. Schwede66 21:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kiril Marichkov

[edit]
Article: Kiril Marichkov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bulgarian News Agency: Bulgarian Rock Legend Kiril Marichkov Dies at 79
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bulgarian rock musician. Jaguarnik (talk) 19:49, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Nobel Peace Prize

[edit]
Article: Nihon Hidankyo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to the Japanese atomic bomb survivors group, Nihon Hidankyo. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to Nihon Hidankyo "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons and for demonstrating, through witness testimony, that nuclear weapons must never be used again".
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to the Japanese atomic bomb survivors group Nihon Hidankyo "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons".
News source(s): The Washington Post, The Guardian, Noble Peace Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The winner's article needs expansion as it is currently barely more than a stub. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:29, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The Prize and the Price I didn't see the peace prize covered yet. The story I noticed in the NYT today when browsing was The Price . This gives the latest spend on nuclear weapons by the USA. Perhaps they posted it because of the peace prize or perhaps it's just coincidence.
Anyway, it caught my attention because I wrote about this as Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the United States back in 2015 when the price tag was about a trillion US$. The figure is now $1.7 trillion and counting. That's partly inflation and partly goofs like a roof at Y-12 being 13 feet out, which cost a mere $540 million. Now the peace prize is about $1 million so let's compare those numbers to put things in proportion:
  • Nobel peace prize = $1,035,000
  • US planned spend on new nukes = $1,700,000,000,000
The ratio between the prize and that planned spend is over a million. That's your tax dollars at work and so it goes. But tell me, which of these stories is more significant...?
Andrew🐉(talk) 12:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC) (edit conflict)[reply]
This isn't about the US doing routine maintenance of it's nuclear arsenal, it's about the Nobel peace prize Scuba 12:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prize was awarded to the group "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons..." The article doesn't explain that these efforts seem to have been fruitless. The other prize winners seem to have concrete achievements so the comparative failure seems to need explanation. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:09, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(The Peace Prize has looooong been a "messaging" thing before all else, given to stuff those who decide who they give the award to, want to hit the +1 like button for. Look up who got the 1973 prize—take an indigestion pill first. Double-bonus: look at which of them gleefully took it, and which one refused it! --Slowking Man (talk) 17:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
Also they gave one to Arafat. 166.198.25.23 (talk) 22:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also begin and peres Go figure. that's not relevant.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:31, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They also gave one to Obama. Scuba 02:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dude it's a nobel peace price, awarded to elderly hiroshima survivors, to say that "nukes are bad". I don't think anyone at the Nobel foundation genuinely thinks it'll abolish the world's nuclear weapons, it's just messaging. Scuba 02:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"But tell me, which of these stories is more significant"
So the order is Nobel Peace Prize < Nuclear spending of the US < Some random comet will be visible. Got it. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 17:38, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTAFORUM. Ergo this should be closed or removed.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Nobuyo Ōyama

[edit]
Article: Nobuyo Ōyama (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Japanese voice actress known for being the voice of Doraemon and Monokuma. Death occurred on 29 September but news was only released today. Tofusaurus (talk) 05:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 10

[edit]
October 10, 2024 (2024-10-10) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Victoria Roshchyna

[edit]
Article: Victoria Roshchyna (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): UPI
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ukrainian journalist who died in Russian captivity. Death reported on October 10. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 13:22, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support no problems with the article at a glance. Rynoip (talk) 21:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fleur Adcock

[edit]
Article: Fleur Adcock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted New Zealand poet. 240F:7A:6253:1:550C:B8BE:A7FB:50AC (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Peter Cormack

[edit]
Article: Peter Cormack (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Hibernian, Liverpool and Scotland midfielder. 240F:7A:6253:1:189C:4A1A:9ED4:16C1 (talk) 14:05, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Internet Archive Breach

[edit]
There is no consensus to post this. Some oppose it because it's not considered significant enough for ITN. Others oppose it over quality concerns. Indeed, there is an orange tag in the article, and it has a date from 2020. That in itself is a showstopper. Schwede66 23:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Internet Archive (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Internet Archive is DDoSed and hacked, resulting in 31 million accounts compromised. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After a series of DDoS attacks and security breaches, 31 million accounts on the Internet Archive are compromised.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 31 million accounts are compromised on the Internet Archive, after a sequence of attacks and data breaches.
Alternative blurb III: ​ 31 million accounts are compromised on the Internet Archive, after a sequence of attacks and data breaches made by a Palestinian hacker organization.
News source(s): Bleeping Computer Forbes Newsweek Wired
Credits:

Article updated
Very prominent archive known for its archive of webpages and various different digital-based data is attacked and suffers a security breach. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 22:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like you're in support of a Wikipedia that's more of a popularity contest than "the sum total of human knowledge". RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 01:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying it isn't worthy of its own article. But until it has one it shouldn't be featured in itn. –DMartin 06:38, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Statement: IA estimated traffic rank is ~180 (assuming something like that is meant by "world's biggest websites"), which isn't nothing, but is a ways below such sites as Douyin, ok.ru, VK.com, Cricbuzz, Detik.com, and Figma. Asking for curiosity any of those have any past security issues that got ITN blurbed? Not to mention Tsyndicate which...uh apparently per a brief search is controlled by cybercrime/malicious actors and used for malware! And is blocked by things like Google Safe Browsing for that reason! Yet still in top 50 sites globally by traffic! Important WP article missing here for people looking for something to do! (IOW basically what GeorgeMemulous wrote below) --Slowking Man (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In the grand scheme of data breaches, 31 million accounts is not a surprisingly large number and while it may SEEM bad, it's really just hashed passwords which means all that was leaked was usernames and emails. I'll be seeing more spam in my inbox in due time. Also, where's the main article for this? Kline • talk • contribs 02:56, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose And it is not 31 million accounts, but 31 million records, which could be 31 million users but also could consider multiple records per person. Significant difference. Also, 31 million is tiny compared to past breaches which have easily exceeded 100 million. --Masem (t) 03:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Interesting. Unusual (why the internet archive), and ofcourse the archive is one of the best websites on the internet ever. Also i dont wanna get accused of trolling or wahtever but this page is such a slog these days, I can bet you 99% of the news here - about elections in Micronesia and the winners of a tourney of horse football - most people not just not care about those, but actively roll their eyes whenever these get posted. This piece of news however is actually fresh and interesting. Kasperquickly (talk) 03:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — 31 million accounts is not significant. ITN is not for interesting facts but significant news. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance This is a pretty substantial take down of such a large website. However, I have to oppose on quality as the article on the IA is full of CN tags and has an orange-tagged section as needing an update. I would also oppose ALT3 as it is just factually untrue; the group claiming to have carried out the attack is based in Russia and has never claimed to be Palestinian. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:16, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Murasoli Selvam

[edit]
Article: Murasoli Selvam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Prominent newspaper editor of current Tamil Nadu state party-led government Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam. Abishe (talk) 15:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ethel Kennedy

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Ethel Kennedy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Wife of Robert F. Kennedy and mother of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. dies at age 96. Davey2116 (talk) 15:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Literature

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Han Kang (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean writer Han Kang (pictured) for her "intense poetic prose exposing fragility of life". (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean writer Han Kang (pictured) for her "intense poetic prose that confronts historical traumas and exposes the fragility of human life".
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean poet and novelist Han Kang (pictured).
News source(s): The Hindu, The New York Times, Noble Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The winner's article needs some work before it is ready to be posted. Also, I am not sure whether to include her distinction as first Asian female Nobel laureate in Literature in the blurb or not. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now it is good to go.--ReyHahn (talk) 08:33, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 9

[edit]
October 9, 2024 (2024-10-09) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Leif Segerstam

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Composer of 371 symphonies, conductor of major opera companies and orchestras worldwide, leading positions in Austria, Germany, Sweden and his native Finland, teacher of notable conductors. - This article was mainly there, even with plenty of sources, only: many of them are in Finnish or Swedish, and all of the many archived ones don't work. I feel that by now we have enough accessible sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lily Ebert

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate No sourcing issues, long enough. Mooonswimmer 01:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good Scuba 15:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Baldock

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Football player. Could use some more work on sources. mwwv converse∫edits 20:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks fine. Scuba 15:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness, both were already referenced in the first line of the main prose of the article so I didn't think extra refs in the infobox were required. I've cited it in the infobox now and removed the 'citation needed' tags in any case. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think what Schwede66 meant to write was that the referencing needed fixing there. The two footnotes linked to sources that gave different DoBs. I have taken out "Hugman", which stated "26 January 1993" as the DoB, and replaced with the obituary on The Times, which shows "March 9, 1993", same as the DoB shown in the other existing footnoted sources. --PFHLai (talk) 15:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan–ATLAS)

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate The second brightest comet visible from the Earth the last 50 years. It already graced the southern skies the previous weeks, now it makes it closest approach to Earth on 12 October, before emerging in the western sky. --C messier (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It won't be really be visible October 12. Wait a few days? Nfitz (talk) 20:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until October 12, hopefully this doesn't end up like the 2nd moon where the consensus was to post when it actually entered orbit and then everyone just forgot to nominate it again Scuba 22:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was just about to nominate 2024 PT5 and forgot lol High Admiral JMT (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked the status of 2024 PT5 on that date but there was still no good picture at that time and nothing much more to say. A renomination therefore did not seem sensible. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comets are unpredictable, but not that unpredictable. It won't vanish in two days and up to now it has been quite predictable. On 12 October it will be quite low in the sky, near Venus, and set early, while the tail curves back to the Sun. After the 14th will be an easy to see object (although the moonlight will interfer). C messier (talk) 04:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Ratan Tata

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Indian industrialist, philanthropist and former chairman of Tata Group. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't there be a blurb here? 2409:40C0:101E:59D2:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 06:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2401:BA80:A30F:5D1C:DCB7:5373:D5BE:66F7 (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Iwao Hakamada

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate Note: we also posted the news about him in March 2014. --UCinternational (talk) 13:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose dyk not itn Scuba 14:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ineligible for DYK. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - more finalization of a procedure than anything else. I would like to note however a decade later, that in ITN's current environment, his acquittal would likely not even be posted, nor nominated. — Knightoftheswords 19:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Chemistry

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate All three winners' articles look good enough even though Jumper's article is bit short and they need to be updated. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 10:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Lee Wei Ling

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Daughter of Lee Kuan Yew, sister of Lee Hsien Loong (both Prime Ministers of Singapore). There are portions that may still require citations. – robertsky (talk) 00:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 8

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 8 Template:Cob

RD: Edward Vaughn

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Civil Rights Icon.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:53, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs sources. Scuba 23:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Johnson (South Dakota politician)

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate American politician, U.S. senator from South Dakota (1997–2015), dies at age 77. Davey2116 (talk) 03:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs citations. Scuba 23:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Pulled) RD: Bernard Tissier de Mallerais

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Dissident Catholic bishop. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Luis Tiant

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Admittedly, needs a lot of work. Hopefully can be improved by the end of the week, to get listed at RD. Natg 19 (talk) 17:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Arie L. Kopelman

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Thriley (talk) 17:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taye Atske Selassie elected President of Ethiopia

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate There probably should be an article for the 2024 Ethiopian presidential election. Varavour (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Physics

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Hopfield's article needs some work, but Hinton's article is in good shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 10:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We even have images now if you want to make it an image blurb.--ReyHahn (talk) 17:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support articles look good. Scuba 03:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 7

[edit]

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 7 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Amaury du Closel

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate French conductor and composer who will be remembered for promoting the music of composers who were silenced by totalitarian regimes in the 20th century. Stubbish article expanded and referenced more. There could be more detail from the sources found, if someone has the time to add it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:11, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hera mission launch

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate A new space probe launched. Rather famous for being the first mission to rendezvous with a binary asteroid. High Admiral JMT (talk) 08:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on quality More references are needed. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Soft oppose This launch should be posted, however, the article in it's current state isn't ready. Scuba 03:47, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brian Hastings

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Have gone through the article and added missing citations. Looks in decent shape now. Schwede66 21:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lore Segal

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Austrian-American novelist, teacher and short story writer. 240F:7A:6253:1:4C5F:E789:5E5F:4B18 (talk) 06:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hurricane Milton

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate This Hurricane has had incredible effects on the southern United States already, it's already a category 5 hurricane and has caused mass evacuations so far. It is as strong as Hurricane Dean, and is currently the dominating the reporting in the US. It is an important historical event that is occurring. Des Vallee (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait as per usual we wait to see what the impact is, not before it makes landfall. It has a good chance to be posted after that. Masem (t) 23:16, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • To add, the reason we wait for landfall is that the coverage of damage itself needs to be established as to make sure the quality of the article is going in the right direction. If for some reason Milton just vanished overnight and did no landfall, the article still would need improvements to describe that. It's clear this won't happen, Milton will cause a lot of flooding if not more, but we show know how extensive that is without our article to make sure the quality is established. — Masem (t) 16:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Unlike Helene, we have a conceivable chance of seeing an objective record being broken, with Milton already having the fastest intensification from TD to Category 5. Otherwise, wait until landfall and actual impacts. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:22, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the impacts are known, although I would support blurbing this if more intensity records are broken by this storm. (I mean, it's already the 5th most intense Atlantic hurricane as of this writing, I would not be surprised if it would try to break Wilma's record low pressure.) Vida0007 (talk) 00:09, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changing this to Post-posting support. Well-sourced, and this is definitely the biggest news right now. This hurricane's impacts are now being felt in Florida too, even spawning several tornadoes. Vida0007 (talk) 00:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe it is now the most intense in the Gulf of Mexico, and the strongest since Wilma overall. I don't think it's going to reach Wilma's intensity though. It's probably going to be blurbed at landfall anyway. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • SMH. Can we PLEASE wait for impacts in the future? Not gonna request a closure like last time because Milton is already impacting portions of the Gulf Coast and probably will be worthy of posting within 48 hours, but really, we should wait in the future. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that Milton in particular is different than Helene and the other one I can't remember immediately: Milton is setting records well over 24 hours out from landfall, and I think that warrants having an ITN discussion open. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN is not great for posting of records that routinely get broken (like strongest storms). Its the impact of the storm that matters, because not only that is what gets larger attention, but also a better judge for quality of the article to make sure it covers the bulk of such impacts. — Masem (t) 00:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Seconding what Masem said. And I'm gonna say the forbidden words again: as things stand currently, Milton is a much better DYK candidate than a ITN candidate. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's quite unsuitable for DYK because it's breaking news and so the article will be getting lots of development. The DYK process might take weeks as it has a long pipeline which is overloaded and so is not appropriate for such a topical topic. ITN is obviously the best place to handle this as it routinely covers weather stories and is currently blurbing two others. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Post-Posting Support. I'm pleased with this timing. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Can't we just wait for the tropical cyclone's impacts instead of nominating it as soon as it reaches a certain intensity? Patience is a virtue. --ZZZ'S 00:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It already seems clear that this is a big one and the preparations are in the news. The article seems reasonably substantial with 65 citations and counting. It's silly to hold back on this so we can continue to blurb a stale sports story from over a week ago. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm unconvinced that there's a reason to bash a sports nomination, especially given that 1 week isn't particularly long ago. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That blurb has been run for 8 straight days now, which is much more than the typical featured article gets, never mind DYK. But you know the saying "there's nothing as stale as yesterday's news"? Just think how much more that applies when it's last week's news or last month's news, as it is in that case. And then there's diminishing returns too. After our readers have seen the item a few times, then they will starting tuning it out. And so the consequence is that just about no-one is reading that article now. It's done.
    The fix for this is easy; just run new items that are actually in the news. Like this hurricane that is so terrifying that it moved a veteran meteorologist to tears.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 14:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree with Andrew Davidson, The article is in a good shape, is making headlines and I think it is good enough time now to post this. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until we can give Milton a blurb that puts it above all the other category 5 hurricanes that didn't make ITN. So far, all we have is preparations (WP:CRYSTALBALL), the intensity (strongest since 2005), and the speed of intensification (fastest on record from tropical depression to category 5). If we can't, then let's have the patience to wait until landfall. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support Altblurb 2 proposed, which I think gives it the correct importance. Yes, it's before landfall we're supporting it, but this is a record-setter after all (strongest since 2005, least time between TD and cat 5 hurricane). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per GeorgeMemulous. Based on the intensification, this particular one is an exception to the rule that we wait for a direct landfall on the mainland U.S. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait It hasn't hit land yet, its a good idea to wait for its effects and any casualty tolls before it is published on ITN. It is also a good idea include Helene alongside it when it makes landfall, as two powerful and devastating hurricanes in a very close period of time is notable. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 13:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Helene's devastation was primarily in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia (U.S. state), whereas Milton's is almost certainly going to be concentrated in Florida. While it is true both will have had significant impacts around Tampa, I think their geographic separation, the fact Helene is gone and stale, and the fact that Milton is so extraordinary means the blurb should only be on Milton. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As others (and I) have pointed out numerous times in prior TC ITN proposals, we should Wait for impacts or future developments. Category 5 hurricanes are not particularly rare for the North Atlantic basin, and though its RI episode was impressive, I'm not sure if that is truly ITN-worthy. As far as I can recall, the only meteorological record Milton has solidly broken is its extremely unusual motion vector as a C5 hurricane, which is trivial information at best. Milton has not broken any notable meteorological records that may make it ITN-worthy regardless of impacts (e.g. most intense Atlantic hurricane, still comfortably held by Wilma). In regards to abundant news coverage of Milton, this is primarily due to its expected, potentially devastating impacts to the Tampa Bay Area and much of west Florida. Though significant impacts are almost certainlyTemplate:Mdashand unfortunatelyTemplate:Mdashgoing to happen, WP:CRYSTAL applies here until they do happen.
ArkHyena (it/its) 14:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for landfall, as per usual. Scuba 14:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per GeorgeMemulous. Huge news already due to millions of people ordered to evacuate and the existing documented extreme intensification and strength. There’s no need to wait, per WaltClip, and the article is in good shape per PrinceofPunjab. I strongly disagree with the reasoning expressed by !votes to wait. This is a blurb-worthy ITN story now. Jusdafax (talk) 16:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Already has made a bit of mess in the Yucatan peninsula where it brought rain and winds. (Reminder cyclones don't have to make landfall to do things) Mandatory evacuation orders issued, mass evacuations, some major airports already closed. Seems pretty impactful to me already. Tampa Bay mayor: "you're going to die" The purpose of ITN, and Wikipedia, is to serve the readers, not play Nomic and make up a bunch of arbitrary rules and robotically apply them no matter what. The "real world" is frequently messy and comes in many shades of gray, not stark blank-and-white. (idly wonders whether if an asteroid were predicted on a near certain collision course with a major city, people at ITN would strenuously argue "we have to wait and see what the impacts (heh heh) are first before we post it, can't foretell the future don't know what'll happen for certain") --Slowking Man (talk) 16:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides the implied false equivalency between tropical cyclones, where dozens make land impacts every year, and an asteroid strike on a major city, which would be entirely unprecedented in human history, there is the fact that weather forecasts can and do bust. Milton's impacts on Florida are far from "near certain", even if I would state that significant to catastrophic impacts are very likely myself. Weather is messy and it would be bad practice to push a weather event to ITN on the presumption that it will inflict significant impacts before those impacts actually happen. A prime example would be Typhoon Bebinca (2024), which for several days appeared likely (and was explicitly forecast by the JTWC) to make an unprecedented and potentially devastating landfall near Shanghai before dry air halted its intensification. ArkHyena (it/its) 23:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In terms of a really bad hit true, though a "graze" or two have happened. Fun fact the Tunguska impactor, if merely displaced in time by 6-ish hrs (so the Earth would have rotated to a different spot) would have obliterated St Petersburg (then capital of the Russian Empire) and devastated the Baltic region (by causing a tsunami). (Per article estimated power in megatons which is "big-ass H-bomb" levels to use the scientific term) A premise more alt history stories need to take and run with.
    The Qingyang event also is interesting, unfortunately we don't have much info and could have been other things like storms. Speaking of, a big impact over the 70% of our planet covered by water would cause a tsunami which is decidedly not unprecedented. Look at the Eltanin impact, just don't read that before bedtime Template:Emoji
    My broad point was Milton has already caused significant impacts regardless of the future. Mass evacs, disaster declarations etc are impacts. I see now they're closing Wally World, apparently giant megacorps are taking actions with "impacts" (big employer, for one). Just say that in ITN: "disaster declarations evac orders etc are issued for Milton", no predicting the future needed. Slowking Man (talk) 03:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait to see impact. - RockinJack18 16:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Oppose Alt Blurb I per above. Sure it's one of the strongest Atlantic hurricanes on record, but people will remember Milton for its destruction more. Oppose Alt Blurb I because there has been plenty of Category 5 hurricanes that didn't make ITN, like Hurricane Lee (2023) and Hurricane Lorenzo (2019). For other Category 5 hurricanes that made it it ITN, it was for its destruction, not its strength. For Alb Blurb II, it can be added to future destruction info. INeedSupport :3 18:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait but noting now my support once it makes landfall. As I am just south of Tampa on Florida's west coast, I probably am going to be offline when it comes in and possibly for some days following. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Best of luck, Template:U. Look after yourself. Schwede66 21:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hopefully you'll be fine. Good luck! INeedSupport :3 02:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good luck! Hope the best for you. Rynoip (talk) 09:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Andrew Davidson. This is already in the news now, and the scale of evacuation is unprecedented. We can update it if or when things worsen, but there is no hard rule which says we need to delay. Also, on a communal responsibility level, I think we should be blurbing this for our readers now with altblurb2 making clear the severity... believe it or not, there are many who do not check the news and we can do our part in communicating how serious this is is. FlipandFlopped ツ 21:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I object to the point that blurbing this before it makes landfall is a good idea ignoring notability to inform those in the storm's path. By now I find it hard to believe that anyone in the track of Milton doesn't know what's going on, and those that do probably aren't checking Wikipedia's In The News, and even then, I don't know what's left to do after all the panic buying and evacuations being stalled on the highways. Wikipedia is not a newspaper and I'd bet less than half a percent of Wikipedia's reader base is even in the path. If they weren't swayed by world news headlines, I doubt they'd be swayed by an ITN entry. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's in the news, and the impacts are already being felt as hundreds of thousands of people are evacuating. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The evacuations arent going to be of much importance compared to the impact.
Noah, BSBATalk 21:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once it makes landfall I'm very biased on this one as I'm in its path and it would be a miracle if I still had the ability to log in to cast a !vote after landfall actually happens and the impacts start to become known, but if the storm's impact on Tampa, Clearwater, Sarasota, etc is anywhere near what is forecast, it is all but certain that this will warrant posting. Wishing Ad Orientem and anyone else in Milton's path all the best. Stay safe, and get somewhere safer if you still can.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 01:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Nixinova   T   C   06:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quick vote tally:
15 saying wait until landfall (6 in the past 24 hours).
14 saying support posting now (7 in the past 24 hours).
0 saying oppose outright from my knowledge.
I might be a bit off in my counting, but it seems to be about even. If we post before landfall, it should be posted sooner rather than later so that it isn't immediately outdated. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GeorgeMemulous, correct me if I’m wrong, but this is a consensus, not a vote. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 16:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a democracy but the vote tally is still a useful tool for determining consensus. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:22, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting immediately Category 5 hurricanes are relatively rare, impact will obviously be severe, and preparations themselves are so serious that they're already noteworthy.–DMartin 22:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Cissy Houston

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Template:ITN candidate Mother of Whitney Houston, singer with The Sweet Inspirations which preformed with many acts such as Elvis, and also brief solo career. Issues exist with the article. TheCorriynial (talk) 19:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article needs work. Scuba 14:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Zaw Myint Maung

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Standard fare for ITN. Putting it up here to discuss whether article quality is adequate. Sandstein 11:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC) / Consolidated with an edit-conflicted nomination by Oceanh (talk) 11:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article looks good. 64.114 etc 00:47, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Thanks, Liu. Ready to post! 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:F4F3:BC7A:91D8:83C6 (talk) 00:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the last four consecutive users. 2605:8D80:401:9506:71A2:F7E:99F4:3379 (talk) 00:50, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support notable event, you’re good to go. 72.143.234.123 (talk) 01:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as with others. 74.49.190.204 (talk) 02:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Marking ready. Nice work by the updaters. Good to go to the mainpage. Well done. Ktin (talk) 03:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:@ITNA We need to post this ASAP to avoid Tuesday's news being the oldest news item and leaving this one stale. This week is frenetic with the Nobel and other news. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like Ktin's idea Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#Box_for_Nobel_Prizes. Does anyone want to do this? Natg 19 (talk) 17:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I've explained there a box doesn't work because we often have failed to get articles to quality before they are stale. However, we can put List of Nobel laureates into Ongoing for next week or so once these start dropping off the list. Masem (t) 17:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ildar Dadin

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Template:ITN candidate

2024 Kazakh nuclear power referendum

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose: Not notable enough (according to me). High Admiral JMT (talk) 13:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on notability. There's no way to know if the plant will actually be finished, so ideally it should be nominated then. Also, Kazakhstan isn't under the same international nuclear scrutiny as somewhere like Iran, and this isn't exactly a fusion reactor - nuclear power has been around for many decades, and Kazakhstan is a leading exporter of uranium, so it's not a surprise one gets built. Plus, I doubt it's notable in of itself, beyond being the country's only one, assuming no disaster or international crisis happens, which from a glance at the article seems unlikely with 6 decades of nuclear safety backing it up. As for the steps towards global carbon neutrality, the Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station closure from 30 September is sitting in ITN limbo - receiving little attention, with unclear consensus.
Also, Nuclear power in Kazakhstan states in its first paragraph Kazakhstan already had a nuclear reactor online in the Soviet era, so this isn't really their first. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:20, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 6

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 6 Template:Cob

(Review needed) RD: Alejandro Arcos

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Template:ITN candidate Mexican politician and municipal president of Chilpancingo de los Bravo. Assassinated on 6 October. TJMSmith (talk) 02:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looking for footnotes in the main prose for date and place of birth and place of death. Hopefully, adding text for these things would bring this short wikibio's word count above 300 and more comfortably into Start Class. --PFHLai (talk) 12:46, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Tunisian presidential election

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Template:ITN candidate

Support blurb II The election being boycotted should be included but also why. Rynoip (talk) 23:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sincerely asking since I'm uncertain, is it considered a sham election generally by "independent neutral observers"? If so do we blurb those? (In any case that fact should be mentioned in any blurb, I would think) --Slowking Man (talk) 01:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Independent third party election monitors where barred from monitoring due to being NGOs that received foreign funding (a la Russian NGO law). All the opposition parties have called the election a farce, and most media outlets have covered that. All that being said I don't think I've seen a media outlet do their own independent investigation into the fraud. Scuba 12:36, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb II I agree with Rynoip. 64.114 etc 02:04, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb 2. Good to post. 2605:8D80:401:9506:71A2:F7E:99F4:3379 (talk) 02:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as this is a general election that deserves to be posted. 74.49.190.204 (talk) 02:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per 74. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4C8B:D7C5:6DAF:1827 (talk) 03:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sefedin Braho

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Template:ITN candidate

RD: Dave Hobson

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Template:ITN candidateNeeds work but long time Congressman.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Johan Neeskens

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Template:ITN candidate Noted Dutch football manager and player. 240F:7A:6253:1:31B8:ECBC:1D01:F0D8 (talk) 15:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sinking of HMNZS Manawanui

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Template:ITN candidate Fairly unusual for commissioned navy vessels to sink, particularly Western vessels. This is the first RNZN vessel to sink since WWII. Article could use some updating. Will see what I can add - Dumelow (talk) 18:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've expanded it to a reasonably complete update - Dumelow (talk) 19:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I know what happened. Schwede66 03:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No deaths, minimal injuries. More a “Did you know that the HMNZS Manawanui is the first ship from New Zealand to sink in peacetime?” 27.96.223.193 (talk) 06:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not correct, HMNZS Manuka sank in 1952 at its moorings. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 21:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It sank in 1952, years after it was decommisioned, and was then a fishing trawler. Nfitz (talk) 21:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 5

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 5 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Helmut Bauer (bishop)

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Template:ITN candidate Auxiliary bishop in Würzburg, Bavaria, influential in church music and ecumenism for Germany. New article, based on the German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ifigenia Martínez y Hernández

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

Oppose article is teetering on a stub, and almost all the sources are primary sources. Scuba 20:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article's problems have been fixed. Scuba 12:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose An unsourced early life/education, a load of primary sources for each legislature she was elected to, and then her death. The infobox runs further down the page than any of its text. WP:ITNQUALITY says "Articles should be a minimally comprehensive overview of the subject, not omitting any major items". We have absolutely nothing sourced from a third-party source for any event outside the last of her 5,148 weeks on Earth. Unknown Temptation (talk) 14:59, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note Expanded the article quite a bit. Hopefully it's up to a minimum standard. EchoLuminary (talk) 06:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba @Unknown Temptation: FYI. —Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping! Article looks much better now, will change my vote. Scuba 12:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Robert Coover

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Bibliography uncited. Scuba 04:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba Are you able to point me to the policy or guideline that says we need citations for a bibliography? Vladimir.copic (talk) 05:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CS Scuba 05:13, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba Can you point to the specific text you are referring to? I had a conversation about this here a few months ago and I don't think there is any consensus on it. This seems to be a fairly robust bibliography although there could be ISBN and publisher information - but this would be a higher standard than the Ernest Hemmingway FA. Vladimir.copic (talk) 05:23, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't a bibliography its own citation, in that it makes reference to the respective primary sources, which can be verified in any online library catalog? Sandstein 13:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
then cite the online library catalog. Scuba 16:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't do that for any other kind of bibliography? I really don't understand this strange quirk of RD that is so divorced from the practice in the article space, requiring something that we do not even expect of FAs. See: William Gibson, James Joyce, Mary Shelley Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because of how often concerns about uncited -ographies come up as a sticking point in ITN, I once added citations to the filmography of a living actor, thinking this was just the right thing to do, only to be flat-out reverted by an editor who claimed that citations are not necessary if the actor is credited onscreen or on the poster. Now that feels like it was on a rather extreme end of reactions, but I agree that there really does not seem to be any generally accepted best practice here. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 05:22, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This exact thing happened to me at Toumani Diabaté and is what highlighted to me this wider issue. Search -ography at any time on this page and you will get someone opposing based on it being uncited - yet the wider community does not agree on whether inline citations are needed. I am considering drafting something to go in MOS:LISTSOFWORKS to address this. Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:34, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added a few sources to the Bibliography section, but I have run out of time today. Most of the bullet-points after the prose remain unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 21:25, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 4

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 4 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Christopher Ciccone

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Template:ITN candidate American artist, interior decorator and designer. 240F:7A:6253:1:EDA2:6B32:7BE5:1E7C (talk) 01:52, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good, albeit heavily supported by a single source. Scuba 03:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Michel Blanc

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Template:ITN candidate Notable French actor. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose uncited filmography Scuba 03:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unsourced filmography and on stage works. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Remove whatever is unsourced if necessary but give him an RD, he's a household name in France and won a male acting award at CannesVaroon2542 (talk) 21:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't merely remove verifiable content just to fasttrack a posting. That's gaming the system. —Bagumba (talk) 12:28, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Greg Landry

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Template:ITN candidate Detroit Lions quarterback and Chicago Bears assistant coach. 240F:7A:6253:1:9C21:B9C3:98B5:A380 (talk) 12:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article is orange tagged. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:02, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article is in bad need of citations. Scuba 21:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Billy Shaw

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Template:ITN candidate Hall of Fame Buffalo Bills guard. 240F:7A:6253:1:2D9A:96F4:D7E9:E994 (talk) 04:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait college section needs some work as it mainly consists of quotes, there is one cn tag and there is basically no indormation about his life between 1969 till 1999 and then from 1999 till his death. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good from a glance, no orange tags, no CNs that I could see. Scuba 16:02, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Multiple citation tags outstanding.—Bagumba (talk) 16:26, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Template:@ITNA It looks like this article has enough details & references now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing Removal: Sudanese civil war (2023–present)

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Support The list of ongoing armed conflicts lists six major wars, 15 wars and many lesser conflicts. By listing just a few of these in ITN's Ongoing, we give the impression that that's all there is. That's misleading and so it would be better to link to the list. That would provide a continuous gateway to all the numerous conflicts such as the Gang war in Haiti which is discussed below. Cherry-picking particular wars and incidents is not adequate as it thereby ignores all the others. And we don't have space to list everything. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:07, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You opposed the nomination related to the Haitian gang war though? We have plenty of space, the main obstacle is regular updates and article quality. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Just 3 days ago there was an article in The Guardian about the El Fasher offensive, 2 weeks ago CNN article about the capital city battles, and Al Jazeera article about the resulting refugee crisis. Quite clearly ongoing and widely reported on, even given the difficulties reporting on this part of the world. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The ongoing line is meant for stories that are making headlines on a near daily basis, not simply because the event is ongoing. The Ukraine and the Israeli fronts clearly get those. While there are occasional stories from the Sudan civil war, its just too small scale in terms of coverage to be appropriate to maintain in the ongoing line. Masem (t) 12:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support only 50 edits since August, and nothing substantive. Stephen 13:03, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Due to various reasons, this particular conflict is not making that much news. It has only limited number of edits in the last two months when ongoing articles are expected to be updated nearly every day. I don't think timeline article is good enough to be posted on the main page as it seems to have turned into a news ticker. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I see well over 30 articles on the subject of the war in the last 24-48 hours (Searching for Sudan and Soudan...) Yesterday, AfricaNews wrote: "Fighting is expected to intensify as the rainy season draws to a close." (source) For some reason, neither the 29 Sept 2024 NYT article (§) on the UAE's "borrowing" of the Red Crescent symbol, nor the 2 October BBC article mentioning that NYT article have made it to the entry yet... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Even if there are dozens of news stories of late about it, the lack of significant updates on a near-daily basis to our article itself means it's failing the quality aspect that would be expected for ongoing, and should be removed. But even with the bulk of those stories, the ones I see all fall into more routine coverage that doesn't describe any significant events that are part of it. Masem (t) 15:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Yes, the pace of editing has slowed a bit. But the article is still getting meaningful updates and sadly the war is continuing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • support per stephen. it is for events with regular updates, clearly it is lacking.Sportsnut24 (talk) 00:36, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I disagree that an ongoing item needs to require regular updates, but then, as others have noted above, there certainly are things going on in this conflict, particularly if we look more widely than the front pages of western media. The war is important and the war is ongoing: therefore, it is a good candidate for an ongoing item. UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. The Kip (contribs) 04:55, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The way I see it, the Timeline article is not written well enough to be at ITN as things currently stand. Too many single sentence updates that are simply "side a did x" or "side b claims y". Timeline or not, the article is still subject to the test of "substantial updates", which I think are lacking here. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The timeline and the main article are two different entries. The main entry has had significant updates since this was opened. Articles from La Presse, Africa News, RFI, etc. have appeared in the last 24 hours (each of those 3 on different subjects related to the war). They could be added if those who work on the page deem them useful to enrich the reader's understanding... nb: the page is already >300K (no sense bloating for the sake of bloating it) and has had over 178K views in the last 30 days.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not really convinced to be honest. There has been a substantial update every few days, but a lot of the info being added seems to be background information. Besides one blip about the offensive, I don't really think there have been ANY substantial updates really that are directly related to the conflict itself. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:29, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bosnia and Herzegovina floods

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate Article sources count 14 dead in Jablanica and 1 in Fojnica. At least one place was apparently completely buried by debris (Donja Jablanica), so likely many more. The main road between Sarajevo and the Adriatic Sea is closed. Elections are also due this weekend. Daß Wölf 14:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support on notability, oppose on quality as the article isn't there yet. 15 confirmed less than 24 hours after the event happened is awfully high, and a village with its own article buried is what I'd considered newsworthy. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any suggestions on what to improve? There's more info in the sources I used in the article, but I tried to stick with what's almost surely not going to be refuted. The catastrophe entered the news cycle only several hours earlier today. The people who found the dead in Jablanica are with the mountain rescue service, which probably started at sunrise.
There should be more info by tomorrow, but I don't believe any of this is going to be struck out. Jablanica might or might not turn out to be the centre of the catastrophe. I'll add the government info from the N1 article; I only relied on BiH and Croatian sources up till now. Daß Wölf 14:44, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some suggestions I have for improving the article's quality are to split it into sections and add an infobox. I suggest the article have at least sections for the lede, background, the flooding itself, the aftermath, reactions, and a see also section to similar disasters. As for the infobox, I suggest Template:Infobox flood. If you find any images, either free-to-use or fair use (mutually exclusive), use that as the image parameter. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:50, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Thanks, I've added an infobox. I'll organise it into sections if I find more time later today (but naturally, anybody is welcome). No objections beside the layout? Daß Wölf 15:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Beyond that, I'd say the article length is the other main concern, but I assume once it's split into the aforementioned sections that won't be much of a concern. Everything appears to be sourced. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Economic impact will be pretty high. Due to the enormous damage of the railway, the Federal Railways will suffer a daily loss of circa KM 280,000 (~€143,000) for at least a few months according to this source. The fact that part of the main road, M-17, between the capital Sarajevo and Mostar has suffered major damage as well (the two cities garnering a major amount of economic cash flow), will most definitely add to the financial loss. These are the most damaging floods since the ones in 2014 and this is an enormous deal as it was completely unexpected. Bakir123 (talk) 14:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 3 Template:Cob

RD: Pierre Christin

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Template:ITN candidate French comic author known per Valérian. Article not ready yet. Alexcalamaro (talk) 07:04, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait three cn tags needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Pont-Sondé attack

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Template:ITN candidate

Sardonic comment: sorry, come back if a white person dies, otherwise not hittin' WP:MINIMUMDEATHS here. (Advice for those outside the Global North "wanting" to "make it onto" ITN: [23]) Hmm, Template:Diff when its tally hit the century mark—though to be fair it already was blurbed as a Major Storm. I wonder where the line is for that, maybe Category 3, the NHC's for "major hurricane" vs just "hurricane"? "Fun" thought exercise how many people would a Cat 2 storm have to kill in Haiti, to get on ITN, if it didn't affect anywhere else? (Stick a pin in this comment, for next weekish when then-likely-Trop Storm Kirk warp-5s over to W Europe, and how ITN reacts towards that, to contrast.) --Slowking Man (talk) 21:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Lean Support Article still need a bit more work, but given the causalities and based on the international reaction I'm leaning towards support. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality per above - while not a stub, article is still far too short. Support on notability - even with the ongoing crisis, a gang shooting that kills upwards of 70 people is anything but "routine." The Kip (contribs) 19:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Event in the news, endorse (conditional on quality as usual). Bitter regretful observation: people might want to keep eye on Template:Links for if/when it gets turned to an article. --Slowking Man (talk) 21:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, I would have to agree with Template:U's and note the blasé attitudes towards this event by some individuals reflecting trends that have been documented among media portrayals of certain communities. Clearly a significant event. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Highlighting this particular incident still wouldn't give the big picture. The list of ongoing armed conflicts indicates that this is just a drop in the ocean. The gang wars in Mexico generate more deaths than the gangs in Haiti and then there are other major wars too. If you want to right great wrongs, then you have your work cut out for you. Our job as an encyclopedia is to summarise all this, not to dwell on the detail. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The larger issue is that WP is not a newspaper, and not every single event needs an article or a separate article. This specific event looks like part of the ongoing violence in Haiti and while it was noted in the day-to-day media, likely will not have any substantive difference from all the other violence in Haiti that necessitates a separate article, much less being ITN. Masem (t) 13:16, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think here is a larger point some of us are kind of working towards: Okay, now, take a view like those expressed in the replies preceding mine, and apply to other subjects and kinds of events. Do we really need to mention every cyclone that kills a bunch of people and give it its own article? What about floods in Europe or China or India or insert place here? Heat waves? Storms happen, people die, big deal, people die all the time. Put it in some kinda "storms in $YEAR" article. ("Don't let $PERSON's death get you down. People die all the time. Why, you could wake up dead tomorrow. ...Well. goodnight!") Philosophical/rhetorical query: What is it that makes "big storms and their effects" more intrinsically ITN-worthy vs "humans directly killing other humans in $PLACE"?
    Fun exercise: reflect on this given that us cranking up our planet's temperature is inevitably going to lead to much more of this stuff. What's gonna be the response when three/four-digit death tolls from cyclones become a routine annual event? (Excerpts from Future Wikipedia: "The 2039 tropical storm death season begins in the Northern Hemisphere. Wikipedia reminds those located below 40 degrees north to review their disaster and evacuation planning, stay informed, and promptly follow instructions from relevant authorities.") Not to mention all the inevitable mass migration/conflict/wars likely to result. (More excerpts: "Ongoing events: Current sub-temperate territorial conflicts") Ooh, nice informative & relevant map: pop. density/latitude. --Slowking Man (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2024 (UTC) (Phrase of the day: "shifting baselines" --Slowking Man (talk) 18:04, 5 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
    Replying to own comment to note that "floods in part of Europe" has been apparently just posted to ITN. (Bonus points: from a non-English-as-first-lang part!) Compare-and-contrast current death toll. More data points for calibration of WP:MINIMUMDEATHS? ("Storms and floods happen, people die...") --Slowking Man (talk) 19:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The flood stub and this stub are about the same size (by any name). I didn't think the flood one would make it. Now that it has and with this event rarer and deadlier, holding it down would definitely appear to suggest what it looks like about our standards and practices. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:U, you would know (or at least should know) that we do not post stubs. The 2024 Bosnia and Herzegovina floods article wasn't a stub (any longer) when I posted it. Neither is this article a stub any longer. Whilst those assessments are not an exact science, I note that they no longer have stub tags, and on the talk pages, they are both rated start class; I agree with those ratings. Hence, the basic premise from which you start your argument (if we post the other stub, we might as well post this stub, too) is wrong.
    Blurbs get posted when there is at least rough consensus to do so. To my mind, this article is good enough now. It cannot get posted, though, because that's not what the consensus says. There are many comments above that the topic is notable but the article (at the time of voting) was a stub. That's now changed, but editors need to say so. Schwede66 03:32, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I thought adding "(by any name)" would be enough (sorry). Whatever we call this short article or that brief overview, you posted the latter after two supports. Given the expansion and de facto "Wait !votes", I now count more than two supportive of publicizing this attack (including your own) and know some admins who'd rightly discount a few of those opposes as poor arguments; if any of them are watching, I suggest posting sooner than later. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:23, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs attention If those who opposed on quality can please have a look again if the current quality is enough now to change your votes given the article has been majorly expanded. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Ping Am I to understand your prior Update and Needs attention emboldenings as support in itself? If so, I think you'll need to embolden the word "Support" for it to technically count toward "consensus". At least that's what I've gathered from Template:Tq. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:54, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm the nominator though. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point, my bad; Template:Ping You're not, are you? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Ping I missed your name in the SEAOFNUMBERS; would you care to start again? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Ping Thanks! Changed my vote. Scuba 00:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Ping I have no idea how I missed you starting first, but that's no excuse; have things changed? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. Still quite short, but this attack seems pretty noteworthy, even in the context of the larger gang war (which I still believe has been underrepresented here at ITN), so I think the article state is good enough. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Ping is consensus strong enough now for posting? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is no longer a stub at 2264 characters. It appears well-cited. Ready to post. Thriley (talk) 17:01, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Schwede66 19:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Typhoon Krathon

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate The storm death toll has risen to 18, and the articles are in good shape. HurricaneEdgar 19:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Ready?) British Indian Ocean Territory / Chagos Archipelago sovereignty dispute

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Template:ITN candidate CMD (talk) 10:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 99-year lease applies to the base on Diego Garcia; the transfer of sovereignty applies to the entire territory, and Mauritius has indicated that they'd support resettling Chagossians on the other islands of the archipelago. And the rest of your comment convinces me that you are not bringing a serious understanding of international relations to bear here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 2 Template:Cob

RD: Christopher Charles Benninger

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Template:ITN candidate American-born Indian architect. 240F:7A:6253:1:E8D8:9FD9:8A77:E4D6 (talk) 15:26, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is an orange COI and NPOV tag. The early life section have no information about the subject's early life. Sourcing is not great as some of the sources are dead, primary or have no information about the subject. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:43, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complete brain mapping of fruit fly

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Template:ITN candidate Best likely article to include this but currently lacks this update. Masem (t) 17:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong oppose on quality - article hasn't been updated at all since May 2024. A timeline article, or an article about this specific brainmap would be best here, but to my knowledge none exists. Not sure as to notability, but leaning weak support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2024 (UTC) Quality issues are more or less resolved, overall support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:51, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I plan to do the update if it is not done in the next 12 to 24 hr. On mobile so can't do an effective job of it until on real keyboard. Masem (t) 18:07, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion is done. I think there are free use images based on the papers, but have to try to figure out best source to work from . --Masem (t) 05:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not eligible for DYK, it is not at GA within the past 7 days, nor expanded 5x, or new enough. Ornithoptera (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Susie Berning

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Template:ITN candidate American Hall of Fame professional golfer. 240F:7A:6253:1:F8A2:3A7B:85FC:16AA (talk) 02:42, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 October 1 Template:Cob

Mark Rutte installed as Secretary General of NATO

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Template:ITN candidate

US port strike

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Template:ITN candidate This may impact supply and inflation and is newsworthy. Interstellarity (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - this may not last long. And hasn't exactly been getting anything other than local reporting. What other strikes have we ITN'ed? I'd have thought it would have had to be more of a general strike, or something unusual like the 1981 US Air Traffic Controllers strike, when they simply fired all the strikers. If we ITNed all similar strikes, we'd have a few a month just for France! :) Nfitz (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment US East Coast / Gulf ports process close to half of the value of imports coming into the USA, and if I'm not mistaken, the US is the biggest importer on the planet. Also, I believe we blurbed the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike which was entertainment workers, not people who oversaw trade. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike was blurbed in July 2023: see the posted blurb page. There was also coincidentally a blurb for a large-scale strike in France earlier that month. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Purely by the numbers, a French strike does not have the same economic impact as one that impacts the entire East and Gulf Coast ports, which as noted process about half of all imports/exports. IF this lasts long (more than a few days), it could be one of the largest strikes in decades. Wqwt (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If this lasts long, then it can be reposted. Obviously strikes in bigger countries have bigger local impacts. That doesn't make it ITN. Surely the relative impact of the Canadian rail strike (which shut down virtually the entire rail network) was bigger - but not even nominated. Nfitz (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Canadian rail strike was nominated. It was mainly opposed due to article quality issues & also b/c the strike ended too quickly. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 18:20, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – From the Impact section of the article, we can see the massive effects this strike has. First strike of this sort in nearly fifty years. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There have been many, many, dockworkers strikes. It isn't even the first one this week - Montreal. The only difference is the rest of us don't rush here as fast as we can for local news. Nfitz (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for a while to see if this is resolved very quickly (i.e. under 24 hours), but otherwise strong support. (argument moved below). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It looks like there isn't going to be a resolution to this anytime soon and the fact this story has dropped off the front pages of many MSM outlets has me suspicious. Blurb it! Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Amos

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Template:ITN candidate Amos passed 21 August 2024; it was announced 1 October 2024. Staraction (talk | contribs) 19:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose large chunks of article are uncited. Scuba 20:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am shocked to see that they didn't let public know before 40 days passed. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged and many cn tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran strikes Israel

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Template:ITN candidate Early, but could have crucial consequences in the conflict - RockinJack18 17:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Altblurb1 until Iran's attack is directly connected to the invasion of Lebanon. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm sure this was just a spur of the moment thing. Scuba 02:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This was a major, highly newsworthy attack that is important enough to have its own entry. Jerdle (talk) 18:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I know it's tempting to bundle together the crazy events in the last 2 days but I think this is a notable development on its own. A nuclear-armed state has been directly bombarded by a foreign nation. Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have had hundreds of missile strikes, the entire country is in lockdown, by far the biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever. This will have major ramifications for the future of the conflict. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel there's significant exaggeration in your statement User:PrecariousWorlds. It's not the "biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever". With less than 200 missiles fired, it's not even the biggest confrontation this year - as there was over 300 in April 2024. Also, with less than 200 missiles fired, what sourcing are you using for the "hundreds of missile strikes"? Surely the majority of the missiles were shot down, and didn't strike. Can you provide some kind of back-up for your comment, or edit it? Thanks, Nfitz (talk) 20:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
US Major general Pat Ryder says the attack was at least twice as big as in April ( ). Most were intercepted but many struck and caused significant damage in suburbs and in military bases. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your words are hundreds. Clearly Ryder is full of it, according to Israeli and Iranian claims. Nfitz (talk) 16:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait/Oppose until we see if this has wider ramifications. Iran launched missiles at Israel just this year, in April, as a response to Israel killing five members of Iran’s revolutionary guards, but there was no larger effects. The middle east is a powder keg right now, and we should not be posting every salvo that occurs between all these nations. Natg 19 (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. a whole country waiting for missiles coming from +1000miles away to fall on its head, in what might spark a (choose your superlative / descriptor) war, is important enough. TaBaZzz (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a big breaking news live coverage on every major news network around the world. It should be "Alternative blurb" because blurb is original research that is probably wrong. Tradediatalk 19:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb. We shouldn't try to read tea leaves about why Iran did this, nor should be broadcast their explanations. The article will cover all that. What's important to cover in the blurb is what happened. Hundreds of ballistic missiles were fired. Add casualty figures if there were any, as they become available, because we customarily include them. Jehochman Talk 19:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment reports say most of the missiles were shot down, and the few that landed did little damage with maybe perhaps one casualty. This would make this similar to the previous missile strike this year. It is probably better to try to keep it to one facet of this conflict, being the lebanon invasion. Masem (t) 19:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb unless there is a separate posting for the Lebanon invasion. Two for one. Bitspectator ⛩️ 19:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Is the consensus that this nomination and the below nomination regarding the Israel invasion of Lebanon from September 30th are mutually exclusive? On the one hand, the two events are directly connected and closely related, so it seems logical to group them in a blurb. But on the other hand, this attack by Iran has been in the works for a while - is it an oversimplification to imply causation by saying "After Israel does x, Iran does y"? In any event, support some blurb being posted. The admin who reviews this probably should assess and decide on the nomination for the invasion at the same time. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb here with both launches strikesand Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon to be bolded. We can use one blurb to document two very related events.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vice regent Not true, the IRGC said it was for the assassinations Personisinsterest (talk) 22:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose covered by ongoing.
Noah, BSBATalk 19:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Observation 1: No one (of the general reader public, to a first approximation) notices/sees the "ongoing" items down there. See banner blindness. Might as well just remove the individual entries, just retain the "Ongoing events" link, enlarge text size a bit. Move all the "here are various Major Global Events" stuff to the top of that page. There, frees up space in the already crowded ITN box (this helps in making individual items stand out more). (Wikimedia really needs to hire a professional UI designer. The Right Thing to do would be for them to make suggestions on improvements, and work on things requested by the projects.)
Observation 2: Assume waaaaay less general background & world events knowledge of a general audience (the audience Wikipedia is supposed to be written towards). Lowest common denominator. What % of the total English-as-a-first-language population do you estimate would be able to without looking up anything, correctly answer: Name a country that Hezbollah has something to do with? Which countries are immediately adjacent to Israel? Okay now do total world English speakers. Those things being necessary prerequisite knowledge, to know that for some kind of News related to "Israel" "Iran" "Lebanon", you might want to go looking under "Israel—Hezbollah war". --Slowking Man (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
on the ·second point, we don't assume readers are dumb as rocks and there is some degree of WP:CIR for readers, it's why we normally do not link country or major city names unless we are specifically talking about that as a geographic place, because we assume that readers have a decent knowledge of world geography. Masem (t) 20:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, it's hard to keep track of axis of the three H-terrorist groups, and what they currently occupy, for a casual reader. I think a simple "Israeli wars" or "Fighting in the Middle East" might cover it better. Nfitz (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have some possibly bad news for you about the median level of geography knowledge of the general public. (Yes that's the right link though the website might look unexpected, they apparently commissioned the survey.) Hmm wonder what kind of results you'd get from a survey of one of the top 5 countries here after the US (the total # of which are in Europe: 0) Slowking Man (talk) 01:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC) Template:Small[reply]

(Posted) Thai school bus crash

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Comment Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that image AI generated? See the hose on the right disappearing and the nearly unintelligible Mercedes-Benz written in English. That, or this image was taken at a low resolution and upscaled, keeping the sparse details. Either way, I don't believe this image is a good fit for ITN. Neutral on the blurb, seems to be a relatively major safety incident more than it is as a loss of life, as the article states that over 20,000 traffic fatalities are reported yearly in Thailand. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Image is not AI generated I can confirm. It just happen so to be a screenshot from a low-res live stream on YouTube. And yes, the bus indeed bears a Mercedes logo. -- Chainwit. (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose The loss of life is horrific. However we almost never post traffic accidents, even really bad ones. And as GeorgeMemulous noted, Thailand has a bad reputation for traffic safety. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose a tragic accident, but I don't think this will any sort of long term impact or effect. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, tragic but ultimately routine news. For anyone curious, on the livestream, we can see that there's a twist and fold in the hose making it flatter at one angle, and giving the impression that it's disappearing into the ground (and reappearing), especially with the low resolution. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Sigh... with respect, I find myself once again needing to correct the record and point out a double standard in relation to a bus crash which occurs outside of the western world. In March of this year, after 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was nominated, there was strong opposition with many claiming that we do not post "routine bus crashes" (similar to what is happening here). At that time, I pointed out that, quite contrary to those claiming we never post automobile accidents, we had actually in fact posted both the Carberry highway collision and Humboldt Broncos bus crash with minimal, if any, opposition. To post those accidents from the Western world but not one with more casualties from a non-western country, would leave ITN readers with the impression that white bus crash victims dying is notable where African or Asian bus crashes are not. In the end, the 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was posted to ITN. For consistency and to avoid systemic bias, that precedent should be upheld. This is a devastating event for Thailand and it is being widely reported by global news outlets and there is no reason to break from the precedent we set earlier this year. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand your position, but in my opinion, the Carberry bus crash would get an oppose vote from me. Of the four mentioned, I'd say the Humboldt Broncos bus crash and 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash are the only ones that would deserve a blurb, given the former having important and notable passengers killed and the latter having a very high death toll of one identifiable group. That being said, Oppose the 2024 Thai bus crash until if and when a major new development occurs. If all is said and done, it'll stay oppose. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, I wouldn't have supported posting any of these bus crashes. We can always point at previous times we did something to call it a precedent, but it means we never get to actually ask ourselves whether we should've actually be doing it to begin with. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not interesting to our readers. Tradediatalk 20:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this is not a forum to discuss if articles are interesting but rather to post articles that are in the news ( WP:ITNPURPOSE ) so no offense but that argument is not valid (keep your oppose vote though not invalidating that!) Ion.want.uu (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above. Absolutely tragic, but limited impact and likely to have a limited legacy. The Kip (contribs) 00:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support event is significant due to high fatality rate and the circumstance of it being children. Being "not interesting" to readers just because it didn't occur in the Western world shouldn't be any reason to oppose and doesn't diminish its significance and impact. Happily888 (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is the type of event article that at the present time, it is not clear if it has the enduring coverage that we'd expect for event articles, as is the case for most road traffic accidents, even with the large toll. This is the trouble that we have overall with keeping the encyclopedia to covering news topics that are appropriate for an encyclopedia, with a long tail and influence elsewhere, and not for any current event that gets a burst of news coverage (even if worldwide). Maybe there is some long tail of a story here, but its definitely not obvious, and until it is, we really shouldn't even have an article on it (that's more what Wikinews is for). --Masem (t) 04:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A quick update here, investigations found the bus to have been illegally modified with 10 gas tanks fitted into it. It "likely would" cause a stricter reform in term of bus regulation in Thailand, which IMO makes the incidence significant in term of a lasting effect? (Again with another "?") --Chainwit. (talk) 08:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It was a coach rather than a school bus, having been hired for an outing
  2. It was about 50 years old and been extensively modded, being converted from an Isuzu to a Mercedes – don't ask me how
  3. Such incidents are common in Thailand which has a very high rate of traffic accidents – see List of countries by traffic-related death rate
Andrew🐉(talk) 22:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support without the image, we can make do without the low-res quality. There are updates in the article which indicate a move for stronger regulation (albeit a small start); suspension of the bus operator as a business; seizing of their other illegally modded bus inventory. – robertsky (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Accidents are posted - period. I see zero reason this does not meet ITN criteria, and the mere fact it's a "tragic accident" or only is impactful in one country is not a reason to exclude it. I do, however, agree with the others that the image is less than ideal and would prefer this not be an image post if a better one is not found. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per nom et al. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Numerically, it's almost even. I'm guided here by many editors expressing "weak opposes" and one oppose vote that had to be neglected for a non-policy based rationale. Schwede66 19:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jimmy Carter turns 100

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

(Closed) Inauguration of Claudia Sheinbaum

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

(Posted) New Prime Minister of Japan

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Template:ITN candidate

That nomination was closed with consensus to wait till inauguration. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Election article is good sourcing wise, but the background info is lacking info between 9/11 to 9/27 and that's a huge/crucial part of the election coverage. Ishiba's article also has a few cn tags, given the overall improved state of the article. Support Expanded the LDP article and addressed cn tags on Ishiba's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per ITN/R Scuba 16:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
amended as ITN/R. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support because it's a new head of state and ITN/R. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnAdams1800, if something is ITN/R, then the only matter to comment on is whether article quality is up to scratch. Schwede66 23:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, he's not head of state but head of government, Japan is a constitutional monarchy, with Naruhito as head of state. AusLondonder (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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